Colleague at work had the following problem would appreciate, both the legal and technical view of the backroom, does this fall between forums!!
140,000 mile 97P Audi A4 Tdi (90bhp)engine makes strange sound followed by sudden loss on power on motorway. This is after several weeks with what was thought to be a rev related rattle. First thought is cambelt and having had it changed at 120,000 miles by Audi is confident they will put it right. Car was recovered from the motorway to an independant garage who removed belt cover to find it intact with no apparent stripping of teeth, he did observe some fraying of the belt though. Car then recovered to Audi dealer who had changed cambelt for further inspection. He said there was no cambelt damage and no evidence of the timing being out and on wanting a further £250 to stripdown head and £3000 for a new engine if reqd the car was recovered once more to an independant vw/audi specialist.
The situation is now this. The independant vw/audi man has stripped the engine to reveal one cylinder with massive damage, valve head embedded in cylinder crown but also damage evident to valves and crown in other cylinders. New exchange engine required. vw/audi man remarked on the fact that the car when arrived from dealer had chalk marks on the belt as if set up for a timing belt change, there is also no sign of fraying on the belt that is now on the engine.
Obviously photos of damage have been taken, Audi UK say nothing to do with them since removed from franchised garage. Basically is there any failure mode other than cambelt that could cause this level of multi cylinder damage? is it conceivable that an audi dealership would switch a belt/retime an engine to hide a mistake in their work? what would be the best way forward other than to grin and bear it without incurring vast legal costs!
Thanks, Ian
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Ian,
Oh yes one for us here please.
I have often commented in such circumstances that you may never know the real truth here. The only way would have been to be present as the engine was stripped. If it had gone to the specialist first they could have proved the exact situation without any axe to grind.
Is it possible the VW garage may cover their tracks....sadly yes.
There are some who rightly may say get the full weight of third party inspections and the law behind this case...possibly the most stress free route may be to allow the specialist to complete the repair and stick to him in the future.
Just my initial thoughts that may change as it is more fully discussed....here!
David W [Moderator]
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mailto:david_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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I am sorry to tell you that my experience of VAG main dealer is that they are absolutely prepared to cover their tracks. I 100% know this to be the case - and it was over something relatively trivial. I am prepared to accept that even main dealers make mistakes and I would be happy if they simply apologised and rectified the problem but what I can not abide is covering the tracks, being lied to and having the wool pulled over my eyes. I will never ever ever buy a VAG product or use a VAG main dealer again.
By the way I took this up with VW UK but after a cursory look they closed their "investigation".
Wonder if you live any where near me?
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I smell a rat
I reckon it's been covered up
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I think that the only other possible failure modes are a seized valve or broken valve stem.
- With a seized valve you might look for other damage related to lack of oil.
- With a broken valve stem this should be easy to spot in most cases.
El Dingo (Martin).
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as i have a little insider knowdlege i bet the crankshaft pully strech bolt wasnt replced at last cambelt change. this is very important as if you reuse the bolt it bottoms out before reaching the correct torque thus letting timing change. i know this because a technician did this to a golf sdi and it luched the engine and the main dealer had to replace the lump.
all because he used his air gun to do it up
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I agree it all sounds a bit odd however, wouldn't these problems have shown themselves earlier? As I read it the car had done 20,000m since the belt was changed...
I would have thought it would be very difficult to prove negligence after such a period, would such a mileage be possible?
MB
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I saw one the other day at a main dealer that looked like it had broken the rocker arm arrangement that works the injector under the rocker cover. The cover also had a hole in it where something had flown out. I don't think the engine was trashed, but it obviously wasn't running when I saw it so it may have been pushed into the workshop.
I should think that at 140K miles you won't get any joy from VAG, as the engine can probably be termed as 'near the end of it's design life'.
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Was this a PD engine you saw Dave?
MG-Rover Questions? forums.mg-rover.org/
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Dr Dave, not sure if it as the PD engine, from memory it was about S reg, and had the injectors under the rover cover on the RHS as you looked under the bonnet.
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If the injector is under the rocker (cam) cover and it is operated by a rocker, then it has to be a PD motor.....I thought it was a bit early for an S reg car to have the PD motor?
MG-Rover Questions? forums.mg-rover.org/
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Dr Dave, it was definately a PD motor then. Didn't pay a lot of attention to the age, I must admit, I just remember the guy showing it me, and telling me it was the rocker that worked the injector, then digging out the punctured rocker cover from the bin!
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Thinking more about the original poster's problem, I have also seen a VW T4 van, about P reg, with a siezed hydraulic follower, they were busy drilling it and inserting a self tapper to try and remove it. Didn't work of course, so they were going to weld a bolt to it and use a slide hammer.
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