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In the course of my work I change a lt of cam belts. Some is easy, some is not. Yesterday I had the misfortune to change the belt on an S reg 406 LX 1.9 Turbodiesel. I think I can honestly say yhat apart from a Toyota MR2 this has got to be the most unfriendly installation I have come across to date. Whoever "designed" the underbonnet area on that car? I suspect a committee did it. For example why shroud the entire belt cover area with every pipe possible? Why make it virtually impossible to remove the turbo pipes to enable the hidden cover bolts to be removed? Why hide the flywheel locking pin hole behind the starter motor? It reinforces my opinion that the vehicle is designed for ease of assembly in the factory. The manufacturers don't really give a monkeys what happens to it after it rolls off the line just so long as the purchaser has a nice ride/drive with lots of toys to play with! Oh well, got that off me chest. Now I'm steeling myself to change the belt on my 1998 Espace turbodiesel, engine out methinks!!!!!!
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I totally agree ,you could change the clutch in a Wolsley six(Crab)model in about half an hour the same in the old Datsun front wheel drives .I think I would need to take a week of work to change it in my Citroen XM 2.5td,and to change the plugs in Chevy Blazer takes about 4 hours (although they last for 100,000km).The ease of maintainance has not exactly leapt forward over the years.
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Andrew,
Do put the clock right on your computer - if you are really getting up at 4.30am it is no wonder you are in such a bad mood !!
Regards, Adam
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I think it's all part of the through-life cost equation. The more you get the customer to pay, the more profit you ultimately make.
Consider that:
1. Customers want lower purchase prices.
2. Fleet operators want lower through life operating costs - hence service intervals have gone out to (typically) 12,000 miles. They don't care about cam belts because they don't own the cars when the belts need replacing (generally).
Lower purchase prices are the result of lower manufacturing costs, and with global/pan-European operations things like engines and gearboxes (lumps) are probably made in one factory to a specification that allows the quickest (and cheapest) drop in at the car assembly plant.
So, matey - we're all caught in this trap, I'm afraid. Personally I dump expensive main dealer servicing in favour of a tame local man, once the car is of an age and mileage where dealer service history stamps (or lack of them) does not materially affect the car's value. Let's face it, if you were to keep a car until it was 10 years old (quite feasible, these days) you could virtually afford to throw it away.
Ian
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Never having owned a car LESS than ten years old, I can assure you they go on and on these days. And as long as you maintain them they are cheap and very reliable. Why anyone can be bothered losing thousands on depreciation when they could be spending a few hundred a year on fixing and servicing beats me. This applies particularly to Peugeot/Citroen diesels of which I have owned several excellent examples.
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I couldn't agree more - but... I think this position may change as cars with all the electronic gizmos needed to meet modern emissions regulations make it (or not) to 10 years old. Then the cheque book may have to come out, particularly at MOT time.
I think the philosophy of a well maintained simple diesel is admirable - I've run Peugeot-Citroen diesels for 7 years now. The older technology IDI diesels are practically bomb proof, provided you look after the cooling system and cam belt (which is where this all started). Servicing requirements are quite minimal and most tasks are accomplished by a reasonably competent DIY mechanic.
My second vehicle is a Citroen C15D van, 7 years old and sweet as a nut. Rust will probably get it, though!
Ian
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Ian,
Your comments....."the philosophy of a well maintained simple diesel is admirable - I've run Peugeot-Citroen diesels for 7 years now. The older technology IDI diesels are practically bomb proof, provided you look after the cooling system and cam belt (which is where this all started). Servicing requirements are quite minimal and most tasks are accomplished by a reasonably competent DIY mechanic.".........are spot on.
I have commented recently on another topic that there are growing problems (with advancing years) affecting many ECU controlled/Cat petrol cars. These often surround poor idle/low-mid speed hesitation and can be a real trial to pin down. In many cases the ECU fault codes are clear so it is down to good old fashioned investigation and fault finding procedures. In fact just like the old days! Nothing as simple as the much promoted "we can plug it in to our computer and tell you the problem in minutes" type comments being thrown about when the ECUs first started to become widespread.
My choice of vehicle these days is likely to be drawn from the middle aged (because even the diesels have some ECU injector pump controls after 1996) Citroen/Peugeot turbo diesel range, currently two Citroens. Get one with a decent history, continue the maintenance (particularly coolant/cambelt as you say) and they will serve you well. Our Xantia is just run in at 90,000 miles and the old BX has covered over 200,000 miles on the same engine/transmission, not even a head gasket so far. I now change the oil every 3,000 miles on both these vehicles and hope for minimal expense as far as you can ever expect.
But...back to the leader topic from Andrew Moorey...have just changed the timing belt (at 50,000 miles - 72,000 far too risky) on my cousin's '96 Xantia 1.9 TD and experienced all the same problems as the 406, the timing belt upper cover rear attachment bolt can only be properly found/accessed with the engine out!
David
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Hi Andrew, good to meet you the other day.
I've always had a thing about french designs myself, everything always seems arse-about-face. My father neede a new head gasket on a V6 406, and guess what? 30 (yes, thirty) hours labour for the job.
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If you want a real laugh try working on a Rover 827 Honda V6 engine. The cambelt cover is about 1inch from the inner wing. You can barely see the timming marks once this is off and threading the belt around 4 camshafts,oil pump and water pump takes the skills of a gynaecologist!
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An interesting topic - what do you techical guys rate as the most easy cars to change belts on?
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To change a cam belt on the following cars
Austin Ambassador = 45 mins
Volvo 240/740 = 2 hours
old but easy to live with and of course no street cred.
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Funnily enough the V6 Honda engine in the Rover isn't sooooo bad, easier in the Honda Legend. I digress, easiest belts are Montego/maestro 10-15 mins, Fiat FIRE engines 25-35 mins and of course Pinto and CVH Fords about 30-35 mins. Most painful to date is the Bedford Rascal/Supercarry without dropping the radiator. I sliced about thirty tiny cuts across the knuckles on the rad vanes!
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>...takes the skills of a gynaecologist!
Interesting analogy!
To Pauls point, it took me just over an hour (honestly!) to change the belt on my Audi 80. Radiator out, a couple of bolts for the lower cover (top cover clips on), two flywheels and you're there. But then only having a 1.8 in an engine bay that big gives you lots of room to work!
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Seeing that cam belts are such a critical part of modern engines, why, oh why, do manufacturers make inspection so bloody difficult?
If checking the oil level was as hard there would be an outcry, but one is as essential as the other and the loss of a cam belt at 70 mph in the outside lane of a busy motorway has serious safety implications.
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My DAF200 uses the same diesel as the maestro but with rear wheel drive the cam belt is right at the front. No obstructions and easy to check. I remember the Bedford van the maintenance was so awkward due to the engine being so far back and intruded in the cabin. One chap got so fed up he enabled the whole engine to come out on rails for ease of work!
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Sodding belts! Give me a chain anyday.
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