What's the Avantime like? - AllTorque
A curious car, attractive for reasons I can't quite determine.

What are they like to own? Good or bad (certainly a bit ugly!)?
What's the Avantime like? - Ruperts Trooper
If they were good, Renault would have sold more!
What's the Avantime like? - billybloggins

With respect, a car's 'sucess' depends not on being 'good' as you suggest, but popular. Not the same thing. 'Popular' can be, well, all the ghastly little runabouts you see covering our roads everywhere, without, I might add, a shred of good design, engineering or anything unusual to commend them. Except maybe price. Often not even reliablility.

So let's be clear what Reanult were trying to achieve with the Avantime. They had a clear idea of the market segment they were after, or trying to create, but misjudged it. Avantime came, remember, from the Espace stable and more recently Megane - in fact quite a line of new concept cars. Markets were created for each one. Years ago they played the same game with the Matra and the Fuego, remember? All those did OK - and were different.

Avantime was aiming to be an upmarket posermobile - striking - even arty, lively and comfy for people swanning around the South of France, Paris and so forth. It was never intended to be sporty, not an estate car. It was 30-, 40- and 50-somethings who'd become quite successful and wanted a style statement, a way to show it off with some style and originality: riding above the traffic in roomy comfort, very plush seats, vast windows and sundroof and a guarnteed head-turner. With existing parts from Safrane, Esapce etc. it was to be reliable and inexpensive to run - for what it was. In marketing terms, a very clever idea.

How many of those objectives did they fulfil? In my book, every one. Pity is, the market didn't (as per usual) have the originality, courage or imagination to get the message. But my point is: does that make Avantime (which incidentally translates as ' before its time') a bad car? Only if you're stupid, a stick-in-the-mud with ultra-conservative and dull tastes, and understand nothing about designing cars people must be made to want. Which is what the motor indistry is mainly about. The job ic to create desire that they the industry then fulfila. It isn't much to do with bringing out new, useful, practical machines that don't go wrong (what fantasy planet have you been living on?). Unless you buy a Saab (which I now drive, after being an Alfa lover), Volvo, VW or perhaps a Merc. Almost everything else is about image - style over substance.

So don't be too harsh on the poor Avantime. I find them easy and comfy to drive, not speedy but reasonably quick and quiet. Roomy for two people's luggage, which is what it's designed for, AND they make you feel special. Not many cars do that. They're NOT for families or famers or sales execs with pathetic egos that need to impress everyone purely by what they drive (poor b******s) rather than what they think or do.

Whatever you may say about Renault (and don't we love to take the p*** in this country?), they're in fact one of the few genuinely innovative and original mass manufactuers left. The rest of the herd copy each other like so many sheep, excepting perhaps Saab, Citroen, and a few others who still build in quirky elements to make their cars a little different. Otherwise it's a rush to be all the same, almost everywhere.

Am I wrong?

What's the Avantime like? - Avantime owner

Yes you are wrong. The luggage capacity of the Avantime is enormous. You forget that it is based on the Espace III from Matra/Renault. That could be up to a 7 seater. I have had 4 17" wheels with tires on in the boot, and luggage besides. An extra parcel shelf is an ideal accessory. It provides a higher "floor" in the boot. The back seat is also ideal for babies/small children in car seats. Drop the rear windows and pop them straight into their seat, and the same applies to shopping. Useful also, for carrying buckets of junk/earth, with a dog cover to protect the leather seats. Access through the large doors is also very good, even in tight car parking spaces. The double hinge system held up production, but it was worth it. The biggest risk to reliability are the electronics on the outside in the door handles, and in the engine compartment that are subject to the weather. A Renault engineer in a supermarket car park in the UK confessed that Renault was itself to blame for the complexity of the electrics/electronics, and they could have been more complicated. The initial plan was for electronic card controlled entry. Thank God the key controlled access was left in the UK passenger side door. They also left the inner bonnet opening latchon the same "foreign" side of the car. The basic handicap to every journalist is pertinent information and their own imagination.

What's the Avantime like? - Altea Ego
Ugly? never! This is automotive art. Pretty rubbish cars to drive apparently, and not that practical for its size, but hey. I would have one on my drive.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
What's the Avantime like? - blue_haddock
When i worked for interleasing many moons ago i had one briefly as a demo. I really really liked it, don't think i'd spend my own money on one but i did like it.
What's the Avantime like? - Kuang
I think they look spectacular and have a genuinely interesting and airy interior with plenty of gadgets. They only have 2 doors though, and they're huge to try to get some access to the back seats. Dunno about the engines, but I imagine anything less than the V6 would have a hell of a job hauling it around.
What's the Avantime like? - boxsterboy
No diesels in the UK. That can't have helped sales at all.
What's the Avantime like? - Xileno {P}
You either love or loathe these things, there appears no mid position. The 2.0 Turbo is the best compromise, reasonably fast but quite economical. The V6 is thirsty and a pig to do certain routine maintenance on.

I don't think Renault ever intended selling many of these, it was more of a marketing statement car. Creates showroom traffic which can't be bad.

Traditional Renault comfort though - if people can remember what it used to be like before.
What's the Avantime like? - Flying Red
A distinctive car that will certainly be viewed as a classic. Mostly Espace/Safrane bits under the distinctive body so shouldn't be too challenging to maintain long term.
What's the Avantime like? - Citroënian {P}
I loved it when I had one :

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=65...2

If it worked for me, I'd have one now. Still one of the most interesting and distinctive cars on the road, tempted to say it's a shame it didn't catch on, but then because it didn't sell in huge numbers it's all the more interesting and unique.
What's the Avantime like? - Collos25
I thought all avantines were 3.0 petrol in rhd guise the vel satis had the options.
What's the Avantime like? - peterb
A brilliant idea and a great looking car.

I'd love one if someone else was paying for any repairs.....
What's the Avantime like? - DP
Never driven one, but it looks fantastic IMO. There's one parked near our office quite regularly and on more than one occasion I've stopped to admire it.
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
What's the Avantime like? - tyro
Currently 8 on Autotrader site - starting at £6295.

Anyone out there going to go for one?
What's the Avantime like? - Collos25
"I thought all avantines were 3.0 petrol in rhd guise the vel satis had the options."


Including a 2.0 so there must be some first I have ever seen I suppose they are are lagunas with a plastic body.
What's the Avantime like? - krs one
I like them too. I believe the Espace was a big failure to begin with so given more time and a better range of engines they could have been a success. Ahead of their time I guess , and a shame because Renault have been scared into building less innovative looking cars. It suprises me that anybody would have bought a Vel Satis (hideous, IMO), when they could have got an Avantime.
What's the Avantime like? - steve
A masterpiece of French engineering excellence.....with a cam belt change requiring the engine to come out and costing between one thousand and fifteen hundred pounds. O dear.
What's the Avantime like? - L'escargot
I avantime to tell you. :-D
What's the Avantime like? - DP
A masterpiece of French engineering excellence.....with a cam belt change requiring the engine to come
out and costing between one thousand and fifteen hundred pounds. O dear.



Not a Ferrari fan either, then? :-)

Cheers
DP
What's the Avantime like? - mike hannon
At least with an Avantime - I see a surprising number, even in a rural area of France like mine - you don't have to change the cambelt every two years whether the car has been anywhere or not!
I know I've asked this before, but why DO vehicles with supposedly 'supercar' engineering and technology need much more (very expensive) servicing than 'ordinary' motors?
My guess is that, actually, they don't. It's just that a huge industry has now built up around desirable old cars and big boys' toys.
PS: I still think the Avantime is the most, weird, inexplicable and pointless motor ever...

Edited by mike hannon on 20/05/2008 at 10:58

What's the Avantime like? - Ed V
Critics tend to rate a car by the number of people for whom it is their motoring solution, taking into account price, space, value and 'cool'.

Thus the Vectra is genrally praised, while its near-identical cousin the Signum is slammed, merely because most "executives" don't buy hatchbacks. One gets 4 stars, the other 2. No account taken that those who do or might want a hatch, get a terrific car.

The Avantime must be as good a car as the Espace - it's identical in all key details. But those who want it are tiny so, QED, it's rubbish. It gets far more makrs in my book for design and looks than the Espace, and if these are more important than things its comes second in - say seating for 7 - it must be a great car.

Why the Ferrari doesn't suffer the same type of bias I've no idea.
What's the Avantime like? - DP
PS: I still think the Avantime is the most weird inexplicable and pointless motor ever...


That's actually what I love about it. It's the complete opposite of the domestic appliance motors that came out of the Far East for years. Cars which were technically brilliant, but built to do a job and nothing more.

I get a real buzz out of any car which has clearly had enthusiast input, whether its styling, dynamics, engines or whatever. The Avantime was never about doing a job or turning a profit, but was a showcase. It's a lovely piece of design in my opinion, and could never have come about from a focus group or a marketing meeting. It's about a designer being given a free rein, and coming up with something unique.

I agree, it is absolutely pointless, but so are most of the world's truly great cars if you look at them logically. Why buy a Ferrari F430 when a Mitsubishi Evo is a quarter of the price to buy, half the price to run, performs similarly, outhandles it, seats five in relative comfort, and cost half as much to maintain? Much as I love the Evo, I'd have the Ferrari any day of the week.

Maybe I'm just a sentimental fool.

Cheers
DP
What's the Avantime like? - Happy Blue!
I test drove one a few years ago. Far better looking that the Vel Satis and genuinely different although with the advantage (?) of regular Espace oily bits underneath. Something that I could see myself buying if I hadn't caught the Subaru bug.

However, it was a bit of a barge to drive, with a long distance between steering wheel and front wheels and feeling a little top heavy. Great as a cruiser but around town, it felt a little clumsy/wallowy. Just not quite there. Given it was a MPV coupe, the sharpness was missing. If it was more like the Ford S-Max to drive, I suspect it might have done better.

Still, for those of us who like to drive cars which are sufficiently rare (but not too expensive) that we are required to wave to our fellow owners when we see each other (I see no more than one other Outback every couple of weeks), it would have been the ideal choice. I think I see one a year around here.
What's the Avantime like? - Collos25
If you can afford the tax insurance and petrol buy it the are superb cars plenty in mainland europe ,just about everything is Laguna based so parts are not a problem,I love odd ball cars.
What's the Avantime like? - stackman
I think I could be tempted to buy a LHD one with a big diesel engine. The high driving position would mitigate being sat on the wrong side of the car.

However the recent costly failures on my Laguna are dampening my enthusiasm.
What's the Avantime like? - Shaz {p}
Just saw the review by HJ for the Renault Koleos:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=326

I reckon, Renault design and Nissan help on development / engineering will be a winner.

Imagine if they can make the next Espace similar in design to the Avantime with 7 seats and reliability.

I look forward to their cars in the future. I just hope they don't lose design flair, that occasionally they are known for.

Edited by Shaz {p} on 21/05/2008 at 10:49