As I've never been in the market to actually buy a car new outright (PS I am not 12 years old before anyone thinks I am - just never had £30K burning a hole in my pocket) I've never had experience of the new car buying process and have always been puzzled as to how much when you order a car it already is sitting somewhere on a dock or in the dealers yard or whether literally an order is given to build it and how much this varies by car company.
A mate of mine has had a succession of BMW X5 3.0d models and seems to have to order 12 mths in advance and even to be on good terms with the garage to get one..Is this a freak occurence just with this model?
I am interested in whether if you go into the average BMW/Audi/Lexus/Merc dealer do they actually have "stock" cars that you could buy there and then or is it all "build to order". I read somewhere that all BMWs were done that way so they never had unsold stock sitting about...hence their famed profitability as a maker...then I read that in Germany BMW punt out a ton of vehs to stock there in all sorts of the usual sales wheezes and indulge in shifting metal like everyone else.
Each time they launch a new model the other volume makers eg Ford/Vauxhall talk about "only building to customer order" and not flooding the market with cars to keep the factories running. Yet that seems to be what they end up doing....
What common vehicles are currently with a waiting list/only build to order? Is it many? Have more makers managed to keep to build to order and still get the whole thing to work without getting wild swings in demand...?
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I waited 8 weeks for the Golf, but that was because I added things to it so had to wait for it to be built.
My partner approached it differently - he walked into VW, told them he wanted a Passat estate and said "I'm driving a hire car at the moment, what have you got sitting in stock somewhere that I can have in two weeks" and ended up with his current passat in less than that time. It's highly specced so I think it must have been specially ordered for someone and then fallen through for some reason.
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I ordered my A3 in mid March, I took delivery on 28 June. To build it and deliver it to the dealership took only two weeks, the other 11ish weeks were waiting for the production slot. Audi etc do have quotas for each country they supply so waiting is inevitable if you want a particular model with a few extras.
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i bought a nissan note and it was built to order but only took 4 weeks and have just bought a cmax 2.0 auto and was told 6 weeks max.
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When I was buying the new clio, the dealer showed me the online screen of what was being built for the uk and that which was allocated to dealers and that which was not yet allocated. We were looking at shipping slots into the Uk of 6 weeks hence. It was a combination of build to order, and build to popular combinations. It seems renault uk sign up to take x cars every x weeks.
Seat is similar, but a build to order there takes 11 weeks, Ordered mine in May due in August.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Some premium manufacturers have sparse standard equipment but very long options lists. Many cars are therefore built to order. Dealers can usually order "stock" cars but will include those options they know help sell the cars.
The volume manufacturers have plenty of stock but it'll still be a factory order if you want an option combination they don't have.
Some, like Vauxhall, have models built in 2 or 3 different plants so delivery times can vary dependent on how they allocate orders to factories.
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My Corsa was quoted at a 2 month wait, nothing special on the order. The garage managed to source what I wanted from another dealer a month early.
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There might be less of a waiting list if the the UK were to change to driving on the right ...
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*for sure* Its a tad of a hinderance
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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TVM when I got the Passat in 2001 I did the same. Before actually ordering I sat down in the dealer I knew would supply and looked at options. Could see which were possible to change spec depending on where they were in the build process.
Frustrating this time for choosing a car as I do not know the supplying dealer for the new car. Majority of cars are from Pendragon but not Mazda or Toyota. We do have RRG Toyota and Mazda nearby and the RRG Toyota has a business unit and the NW Mazda business is being set up at the local dealer too. But do not know for sure.
I do not like stringing dealers along for test drives if they do not have chance for my order.
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Hmmm! whats the delay TVM? in your earlier thread "TVM Metamorphosis" it appears you were quoted a delivery date of 8th july for the Almera. you should be enjoying it now!!.
Have you had so many extras specified that its going to take an extra month to build!! - lucky you! :-)
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I'm not sure if it's still the case, but The Morgan Car Company used to have a three-ish year waiting list, and customers quite happy to do the waiting - for a motoring anachronism!
I have fond memories of a series called 'Troubleshooter', one episode of which had the then chairman of ICI - Sir John Harvey-Jones - on a visit to Morgan.
It was amusing watching H-J struggling to come to terms with a contented workforce and a long waiting list. His suggestion to increase production from eight to nine cars a week was met with the comment from one old boy: "Mr. Morgan never said nothing about no ninth car....".
Priceless!
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Believe it or not there is a waiting list for my N reg Defender! Three friends wanted it because it has never been abused and I have managed to obtain copy invoices from 2 dealers for all work carried out since 2001.
I finally agreed to sell it to my pal who collects it the day before I fly out to the States mid August. On my return in October I shall be scouring the auctions,and Autotrader, for another Subaru...wonder what i'll be able to pick up for £5k three months down the line?...
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Golf Gti - a month. Not bad at all. Mind you the only extras were reversing sensors and 18" Alloys. Car was bought as a 56 reg (late March) and the build date is January so I guess it was hanging around somewhere.
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So is the whole "disused airfields full of new cars" a thing of the past? Or was that a BL only related problem?
When I visit the west country from time to time there always seem to be acres of cars on the docks at Avonmouth. Most look to be Suzukis and Mitsubishi 4x4s and pick ups plus strangely alot of Fiats (thought they were brought by train thru the tunnel these days.)
With the premium makes (and for other makes if they could) I presume having a a waiting list or at least a need to order from the factory reduces the stock in the supply chain however I presume if the wait is just too long alot of people might go elsewhere. The 12 mths my mate waited to me sounded plain daft for the X5...why don't they just build a few more and bring the wait down to 3 mths...Or is it some convoluted argument about residuals? (which in the end would it not be better if BMW just sold more cars in the first place and pocketed more profits)
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Lakenheath is now full of cars, as is upper heyford, there are tens of acres of cars at corby.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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do u know which makes or is it a closely guarded secret?
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Mostly vauxhall at Corby, mixed makes at the others I mentioned. I know there are a load of nissans at upper heyford.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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If I recall rightly Vauxhalls are imported into Corby ???
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I presume with the Japanese made vehs (a dwindling no of the main Jap makes I know) and all the Koreans they must have to bring in cars in fairly "lumpy" groups of a few thousand at a time on a ship taking whatever time it takes to sale around the world...does that mean that ordering a Japanese made car is never really a factory order ? (is it also the logic behind at least in the past Japanese cars coming fully equipped with not alot of extras to choose from or model variants so its easier to manage the logistics? )
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Thinking one option for next car is a Mazda6. Depending on spec that could be four months wait!
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There's less than there used to be at alconbury.
tinyurl.com/2d75al
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loads here
tinyurl.com/23q7kw
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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U can check when it was made when u get it, look at underside of ash tray etc, usually have date stamp.
dealer tell u a load of carp mainly.
It is just inefficient networks getting them to you
I ordered a Skoda 5 April one year, got it 24 May. parts were dated 24 April, typical delivery schedule from Czech by river/sea.
But I bought a standard ( new) Ford and I got it five days later, rusted drive shafts, field job.
Just make your choice, and pay the right price of course.
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loads here>>
Actually, TVM, they are cardboard replicas designed to fool the enemy into thinking it's a car park - when, in fact, it's the home of the USAF 48th Tactical Fighter Wing.
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schhhhhhhhhhh I will have to shoot you now
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Or maybe the USAF has decided stealth bombers are too expensive and using adapted Vauxhall Corsas instead....
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Vauxhalls, Peugeot and Citroen are the majority at Corby.
It includes cars which need warranty work before going for sale to dealers.
So how new is that new car?
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When I visit the west country from time to time there always seem to be acres of cars on the docks at Avonmouth. Most look to be Suzukis and Mitsubishi 4x4s and pick ups plus strangely alot of Fiats (thought they were brought by train thru the tunnel these days.)
Sorry to be picky, but its actualy Royal Portbury Dock where the cars come in - just alongside Avonmouth :-)
I was chatting to a friend who has a friend who works there - its sounds like they dont store anything there really - the turnover is very fast. He works shifts and often says if he has 3 days off most of the stock there can have been turned over.
I ordered an A3 in March, and got it Mid June - added a few options, but dealer told me that didnt really make any difference as there was no stock so it was still a factory order. Same dealer was asking more than I paid through an internet broker for 6 - 12 month old examples on his fourcourt
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Quite simply it depends what your priorities are - do you want particular options / colour or are you in a hurry? If you're not fussy a dealer will usually look and see what's in the UK and get it for you: some of them swap one from their stock.
When I ordered the Audi SWMBO was keen on the sports seats option, so it was a 'build to order' - quoted 8 weeks and 8 weeks it was. The Mercedes special finance deal was conditional on having one already in the UK, so it took only a few days.
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So does the fact that one dealer has and the other will swap mean that neither of them actually owns the car yet so effectively each dealers back lot is just part of Merc UK's vehs? Or are they actually paying each other for the vehs?
What also makes me wonder esp of the posher makes is that I assume they can sell truck loads of cars in posh Surrey and Hampshire, West London Etc but less in less whizzy parts of the country...does that mean that say running a BMW dealer in Esher is a nobrainer and u spend most of your day telling customers you've sold out?
Or will a dealer in a posh part of the country have a much bigger target/allocation and therefore just shift more metal? Will it be easier or quicker to get a model by phoning a dealer in a quieter part of the country?
Do the posh successful makes actually ration the number they sell here or is that just a folk story because like it or not they are in it for the money and are just shifting the metal to compensate for weak sales in the rest of europe? (understand German car sales are weak again for another year) After all someone thought it a good idea to up sales to the level where 3 series that now outnumber Mondeos on the nations roads...
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You have to remember that the dealer is the car manufacturer's customer. The dealer then sells to the retail customer. Most dealers will actually 'own' very few cars - they will be able to buy demo's at a healthy discount. They will own more or less what you see in the showroom. Anything else has to be ordered from the manufacturer. The dealers will also (depending on brand) be working with a complicated system of bonuses and rebates, which impact on the overall profit that they make in a given quarter. This is in addition to any set of targets and bonuses that the dealership have for their salesmen.
Normally the manufacturer will have a regional manager who works with the dealerships to ensure that they are meeting the manufacturer-imposed 'dealer standards', targets etc and are generally 'toeing the line' - i.e. not offering too big a discount, not indulging in 'pump-ins' to other dealers territory etc. and basically making sure that the manufacturer exerts as much control as possible over the dealer.
With most European motor plants working under-capacity there is no real need for long waits, even with prestige brands. However there is a very delicate balancing act to be performed. Ideally supply should be throttled so that it falls just a little short of demand. This ensures a certain 'cachet' to the product and protects residuals and limits discounting. The snag is that manufacturers want to take market share from rivals and therefore sometimes give their dealers over-optimistic targets; targets aren't met and then they've let too many cars into the supply chain. When this happens the dealers tout part of the allocation of cars to the brokers and discounting sets in. This has happened in recent times with BMW 3- and 1- series, where some BMW dealers were touting these models through brokers at 16% off list.
The problem for many European companies is that UK is a RHD market and many components differ from the LHD norm (steering, dash, trim etc) and the track may also have to be reconfigured. They therefore may have to commit to a RHD production figure up to 12 months in advance. If the market changes then this can mean either under- or over-production.
For Japanese-made cars the shipping time from Japan is 6-8 weeks from their docks, assuming a ship is there. So from order to UK dealer takes min 3 months+
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I seem to recall that buying a car in the States is allegedly more a case of choosing what you want and driving it away same day or at least in a very short time. Or is that not for new cars?
If it is, what do they do differently to enable that where we cannot?
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I seem to recall that buying a car in the States is allegedly more a case of choosing what you want and driving it away same day or at least in a very short time. Or is that not for new cars? If it is what do they do differently to enable that where we cannot?
One thing I have always noticed in the States is car dealerships generally have massive lots - effectively resembling a car supermarket in acreage - I presume they are just in a bigger business than UK dealers and can afford to hold masses of vehicles in stock. Maybe it is just expected that you do go and choose a car and drive it away. I've seen the same even with premium makes - rows and rows of new unregistered premium makes. I remember once on of the German writers for Car magazine back in the 80s being flabbergasted that really hard to get Porsche 911s were sitting in rows ready for sale in California at dealerships.
US dealers also seem routinely more aggressive in their sales techniques. Having spent time watching US TV and listening to the radio over there alot of the adverts for car dealers are much more sales orientated than here "XYZ Chevrolet is having its summer close out sale - every car must go - we have 300 2008 Chevy AAA models that must be cleared.come on down and make our day!" and this applies even to more premium makes - u see "deals" being very obviously marketed to get you to get a BMW or a Merc either at a local newspaper or local radio advert. By comparison here the sales activity of most dealers seems to be much below the radar. No loud adverts on local radio, no "everything must go this weekend" type pitches. If a dealer did this would they get struck off?
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>> driving it away same day >>
A frequent claim in the US is that the dealer can have you on your way in a new car in an hour.
hard to get Porsche 911s were sitting in rows ready for sale in California at dealerships.
Porsche shipped so many Cayenne's into the US when it was launched that they were not far off giving them away.
There seems to be a Japanese mentallity in the US, where there are far fewer model variations (doesn't the UK have the highest number?) and most cars are better equipped as standard so there are fewer options. Therefore pretty well all you've got to do is choose the colour and you're away.
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Yes compared to the UK certainly there is nothing like the old company car pecking order of badges which produce a myriad of model nos....
What is normal there is that the model itself might not be that well equipped but will be produced mostly in a "loaded" spec with typical options but then discounted back to a fairly basic price. For alot of midrange and smallish US cars (esp the Non big 3 makes) technically an automatic is extra yet all the deals at dealerships are mainly for autos and hardly anyone is ever asked to pay extra.
I get the impression as well that because of shipping distances and lack of patience among Americans who are generally more demanding that there's more of a culture of having stock available and doing deals on the spot. Also remember very few of them get company cars so alot more people are used to paying with their own money and doing deals. So even for the premium makes they can't just behave as order takers where nobody mentions money and just get the company to pay...
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You have to remember that the dealer is the car manufacturer's customer.
There's generally another step though, with the importer or UK sales arm (ie Ford UK, or whatever it's called) sitting between the dealership and the manufacturer
Of course, many dealerships are owned by the UK retailing arm of the manufacturer anyway - particularly Mercedes, Ford, Peugeot and Renault.
My understanding is that new cars in stock are generally not paid for until registered (this would be standard accounting practice for any manufacturer using a distribution network - something isn't sold until it goes to the end customer) but presumeably there are fairly tight controls to stop unsold stock building up in the dealerships.
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My A4 Avant took 7 weeks, from placement of order. We did do a brief search for suitable cars that were in stock around the UK, but we couldn't find one that had everything I wanted but not stuff I didn't want to pay for. Therefore at no extra cost I ordered the exact spec I wanted. I didn't mind the wait as I wasn't in a rush. Although I have to say any dealer expecting me to wait 12 months for any car can go and poke it !
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Here is an interesting little link, shows a car from order / manufacture / delivery
tinyurl.com/299frs
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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1.2 Polo in a week. Swmbo wanted it in black but there wasn't one around. There was one in pearlescent black though at £300 odd dearer so we hummed and 'arred and they threw the paint in for free! done 16000 in a year without a single problem unless you count a puncture.
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1.2 Polo done 16000 in a year without a single problem unless you count a puncture.
Be careful barney, its herecy to say anything on this board about VaG cars being reliable !!
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