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Having received a £60 fine plus 3 points for straying over 40 mph (scamera) a couple of weeks ago I have to say that, given the choice, I would rather have had a simple, annoying letter via a bunch of do-gooders.
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If I understand the system (probably not!), a bunch of keen amateurs are going to get out with police equipment and measure the speeds of various cars thru their village. This is where I may be wrong - they have also got to note the reg no of each speeding car and get it right as it drives past and then give in the details to the police service HQ. I can see many opportunities here for miss ID of a car and the wrong people getting the letters.
In the circumstances described I don't see much opportunity for the confrontations they are going to be trained to deal with and, as an aside, if this is such a marvellous idea why was a man told to take down a bird box he had installed in his garden, which just happened to look like a speed camera? No cost to the public, no expensive equipment and not much speeding. Sounds like a result but was pounced on by Council jobsworths!
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This has been in operation in Merseyside for some time. Infact, I have an application form to join in. Sounds like a good idea to me.
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Norfolk is, or was, one of the counties where many villages have radar operated speed signs - the ones that flash at you if you're over the limit and don't if you aren't.
I've always found these much more effective in continuously reducing speeds through these villages, rather than speed cameras which only work for about 50 yards.
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Toothless as they cannot prosecute. If it wasn't for the fact I don't condone speeding in built up areas it would be my pleasure to drop into 2nd and accelerate past them upto 60. Hate these kind of jobsworth nimby types as much as I hate people who drive at innapropriate speed.
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I think the Portugese system is great - cheap and effective. If you enter a town or village above the speed limit, about 200 yards on, a traffic light turns red and brings you to a complete halt. That'll each you!
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Agreed it's a good system but it is rather annoying when you are following the speeder and are also punished for his misdemeanor despite sticking to the limit.
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I wonder what appeals process there is for this? OK, a letter telling you off isn't the end of the world but if you know you were not speeding who is going to back down? I suppose if you can prove you were elsewhere that day then fair enough.
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There's no need to appeal as there is no sanction. If I received one of these letters I would simply return it to the police with a covering note explaining that it wasn't me, they must be mistaken, I'd prefer not to receive this kind of correspondence along with a bill for my time and materials.
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OH - if you are sticking to limit how can you be detected or punished?
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AS - I think OH is referring to the fact that one of these OAP do gooders with less than perfect 20/20 vision may not make a correct note of the reg of the offending car (especially if it decides to wind them up by doing 60 in a 30 zone). As a result a totally innocent party could receive a ticking off.
If I were to receive such a letter by mistake Norfolk Police would also get short shrift from me.
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Davey jp thanks. This actually goes back to a point I made earlier re misidents of motorists by the vigilantes! I failed to recognise this!
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Obviously if you aren't speeding you can't be detected or punished. Likewise the evidence of some old duffer, rabid housewife or well meaning but unprofessional local has no meaning whatsoever.
It's total rubbish and should be treated as such. The fact the police are prepared to accept 'evidence' from these people to decide where to deploy their cameras is a joke. Just not a very funny one.
Such a shame we can't rely on people's own recognisance to drive responsibly.
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I can see why that would appeal to some people in Norfolk.
I can see why it would appeal to people living anywhere. If you're not speeding through villiages, it won't be a problem. If you are, then you shouldn't be.
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My post regarded the fact that a mistaken reg number resulting in a letter could not be proved by a photo which the likes of a Gatso has. I know there is no fine/points but I still wouldn't like a letter. I'm sure one or two cases will surface in the press.
I wonder how long these schemes will last i.e. if speeding drops in an area are the speed guns taken away or do the volunteers keep going?
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I'm very happy to stick to the speed limits in villages but don't see that deploying vigilantes is the right way to enforce them.
I agree with poster who said that the flashing reminder sign was very effective. Assume this is more expensive than the neighbourhood watch.
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what happened to those speed bumps that if you went over at/below the limit didn't inflate (think that they had an airbag) but if over the limit they acted like normal sleeping policemen?
Seems the best way forward and can get rid of these ridiculous hillocks that coucils plant in the middle of the road, GATSOs, vigilantes and, best of all, it might stop councils blocking one lane of village roads and forcing cars to obey a priority/Give Way system.
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This as been operating in our village recently. I must say I have no objection if it slows those who drive through the village at high speed which many seem to do, despite the primary and secondary schools and resultant many children crossing the "high street", let alone the older, less nimble among us (that's me then!). Even more annoying is the fact that, despite two carparks just off (20 yards) the "high street" is the number of people who park on the zig-zags of the 2 pedestrian crossings, or even ON the dropped kerb of the crossings in order to use the pizza/chinese/indian takeaways, the newsagents, the supermarket, the bakers, the postbox and the cash machine. The double yellow lines are also totally ignored because many motorists are too lazy and too inconsiderate of the holdups they cause others to use the car-parks. I sometimes feel like volunteering to be a vigilante traffic warden and stick a few tickets on these inconsiderate so-and-sos! I am sure that none of you are numbered among the latter!
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Phil
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In my younger, but even grumpier days, I used to keep a pocketful of printed stickers saying "Carp Parking Competition 1998 - WINNER" and put them in the middle of the driver's side of the windscreen. It will come as no surprise to some of you that I blog on another site as "Meldrew's Dad"!
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"I used to keep a pocketful of printed stickers saying "Carp Parking Competition 1998 - WINNER" and put them in the middle of the driver's side of the windscreen"
AS, I often threaten to do the same but SWMBO won't let me!! I also fancy one saying "You are supposed to park BETWEEN the lines, not astride them"
I should be on "Grumpy Old Men"
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Phil
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We're possibly going to be having a community speedwatch on the main road near us which has a 30 limit but idiots or in Imprezas etc do 60-70 along there. Community speedwatches are a good idea.
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Just Impreza drivers eh? I'll be interested to hear the results of your community witchhunt. My bet is you'll find most speeders are driving mundane cars and live locally.
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A high proportion of the trainee rallly drivers here in the wilds of Lancashire drive Subarus. I can hear them hurling themselves through the village, on the Bray hill replica section nearby.
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The obvious thing to do is to link the radar speed signs to the speed humps. The faster you approach, the higher the hump raises from the surface. At sensibly low speeds the hump remains entirely flat.
Job done, and has the added advanatgae that emergency vehicles can have an override transponder in the cab that prevents the hump rising at all.
It'll never happen on cost grounds, but it would resolve a lot of problems.
An alternative and cheaper method (but less flexible) would be an inflatable hump. As the car approaches the weight of it presses down on bellows under the road. They feed into the hump and raise it. By having an escape valve in the hump that can be set to allow more or less air (or oil or water or whatever) out, you can make the hump rise to whatever height you like for whatever speed. The faster you go, the less time there is for the air to be expelled from the hump before the car gets to it, so the higher it will be on contact.
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The obvious thing to do is to link the radar speed signs to the speed humps. The faster you approach the higher the hump raises from the surface.
>>Job done
You're living up to your name with that idea Dipstick.
Just one reason why your idea won't work: someone going too fast will hit the ramp too fast, lose control, and crash. Bit of a problem when the idea is to reduce accidents eh?
F-. Slung out of school! Maybe they'd hire you in the Highways department though judging by the road calming round here.
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"Just one reason why your idea won't work"
Clearly - or apparently not - the maximum height it raises is no higher than they are now. If, therefore, you are travelling at a slightly slower speed - say 25 - you are "rewarded" by a lower speedhump that reduces wear on your suspension and nerves.
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I'll be interested to hear the results of your community witchhunt.
I find it hard to describe a campaign against people speeding through a villiage as a "witchhunt".
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Conversely I don't.
From what I've seen of these schemes they are of little value other than providing people with very little going on in their lives a chance to persecute their neighbours or their loved ones. In many cases it backfires on them. The people most likely to speed in a village is, you guessed it, villagers themselves.
We won't even get into the issue of the fact they have no valid training, experience or suitability for the role of detection.
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OH - you are right as ever! However, worthwhile or not these people are a slight deterrent, highly visible and free up real policemen to get on with their essential paperwork, as required by the Home Office, or whatver they are calling it this week.
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surprised the Health and Safety mob allow it......if there's a speeding problem, which there must be otherwise why would they be there......then that means untrained people will be out with a speed gun waving it at speeding motorists
how much training will they get, not just in speed gun usage but traffic management, speed awareness, personal safety etc; are they insured; will their current employer pay their wages if they were run over or punched by a lout; can any public institution be sued by them for allowing them to do it when (not if) eventually it all goes pear shaped...
can of worms
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The police don't like vigilantes even when they are ostensibly on the 'same side'.
A question of prerogatives, encroachment, muddying the waters of law enforcement...
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not just that Lud, but as many things in life, a little bit of knowledge can be a bad thing.... because when you get stuck you have to ask someone who does know...which ties them down. Also if you've authorised it, you've got to deal with the complaints that go with it, etc,etc
'do it cheap, do it twice' type thing
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Are these speed guns silent?
I ask because some years ago a policeman pointed what looked like a large pistol at my windscreen from a slip road in Harrow Road, and I heard a distinct pinging, ringing sound from the top right corner of my then car's flat screen as I hastily lifted my right foot.
Evidently I was quick enough to lift as there was no follow-up.
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Someone commented recently in this thread or another that people who speed in villages are the villagers themselves. This seems a reasonable assumption to me.
But it raises the possibility that the speed vigilantes may use their connection with the authorities to pursue private vendettas or feuds, or that their vigilantism may itself give rise to such feuds. I think that may be one of the things Westpig was hinting at.
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"distinct pinging, ringing sound"
I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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There was no physical projectile TVM. If there had been the windscreen would have fallen into my lap in small cubes (as the same car's screen once did in the outside lane of the M1 for no discernible reason).
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