Being an anorak, I've kept and analysed my fuel returns over nearly 100,00 miles.
At intervals of less than 10,000 miles usage patterns, traffic density and seasonal conditions make the figures impossible to compare.
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I would also agree that it is difficult to compare immediate before/after mpg figures after trying various brands of fuels, additives etc. I always give it at least three tankfulls (1000 mls+), before making my own judgement. But, like RT says, if the seasons are changing during that period, or you've done some longer/shorter journeys than usual, it's all up in the air a bit.
This is where I think on-board mpg computers probably have an advantage if you're doing the same journey each day, you would see a trend change in mpg sooner.
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I see the snakes have been working overtime again providing more oil for people to waste their money on.
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Agree Andy, I wonder how much profit there is in this stuff ? For example what would a 50 litre drum cost retail, if costs and normal purchase quantity were scaled up?
Sorry for being a cynic :)
Regards
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>>Sorry for being a cynic :)
So am I when it comes to additives,but those that claim they work (specially petrol add) IMO they change driving styles without realising.
Always had mixed reactions over Millers
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The only additive I've ever been convinced does anything at all is Redex.
Can you still buy Slick 50? Anyone remember the ads in the 80's where they reckoned they ran an engine for something like 10 minutes with no oil in it after a Slick 50 treatment and it was perfectly okay?
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
97 Ford Fiesta 1.4 16v Chicane (for sale)
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Redex cost money but I always added ucl(upper cylinder lubricant) to the fuel if it was free-at least there were some hydrocarbons in it that burnt.
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>>Can you still buy Slick 50
I have not seen that for years,but did read they were taken to court for making false claims about the product and given a huge fine AFAIR, see if I can find the article
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About the same as millers then
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Actually I have just their web site about all their products and certain words abound such as "on average","upto","can"loads of writing without actually promising anything typical medicine man selling snake oil the script has not changed in hundreds of years,give me a load of money and you can ......
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Its worth comparing the specs of their synthetic 5w40 Diesel engine oil with the likes of Mobil1 for example.
In particular the Merc specs. MB 228.3 and ACEA B3, or MB 229.5 and ACEA B4? I`m not going to spell it out, but guess which is Mobil?
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Its worth comparing the specs of their synthetic 5w40 Diesel engine oil with the likes of Mobil1 for example.
We are talking about fuel additives here not engine oil - sorry.
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well the cynic's amoungst you obviously dont run your vehicles on oil or fuel then! because there full of addatives & its the adatives that make the biggest difference to the oil & fuel rather than the base product!. I also expect you take tablets when you get a headache! well you could class that as an addative but it still works & if you drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well I won't go on
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>>well the cynic's amoungst you obviously dont run your vehicles on oil or fuel then
Do,but dont use any extra additives good or bad
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Show me a vehicle manufacturer that recommends the use of a fuel or oil additive - they normally warn against it in the handbook.
Show me a fuel additive that have been tested and results published in a peer-reviewed journal (e.g. SAE publication). If the results were significant and verifiable then they would jump at the opportunity and quote the results in all their advertising. The publicity would be worth an absolute fortune. As things are, the additives don't have any real measurable effect, so their is no advantageous data to publish and these companies have to skirt around the issue with qualifying words like 'may', 'could', 'can', 'up to' etc etc.
Sadly the additives do sweet FA. Also, because you are replacing a small percentage of you fuel with something of a lower calorific value then your engine power will fall by a proportionate amount.
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Roly, Sorry to seem to take it off topic with regard to my oil reference above.
To put it more clearly, If the oil spec of their 5w40 full synth diesel engine oil ( see my above post) seems to lag behind the likes of Mobil1, what does that say about the Fuel additive?
Given that fuel additives have no specs to meet anyway, such as ACEA for the engine oil.
( That really says it all, I think)
A lot of research must have gone into getting the BS spec for diesel fuel, thats a defined standard and IMHO, the only one worth anything re fuel additives. ( the additives put in to meet that spec)
With advertising terms, the term " up to" for example, ( with many things sold in general) *can* mean no gain at all and paradoxically, would only give a problem if the the product gave *more* than the figure written on the packaging.
As an aside from this,
Does anyone remember decades ago when adverising standards were tightened? Overnight those adverts in the car mags to " change your valve springs every 10,000 miles" were dropped. There was some sort of claim about " valve bounce" if you didnt. Nice little earner for the spring manufacturers in the 60s.
In general,
Perhaps its time for another tightening of standards removing implications on packaging for products, bypassing the advertising people and company lawyers. Surely, to sell a product for profit is everything and as such, any words that will aid this, or hit psychologically will be used.
Regards
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Sadly the additives do sweet FA. Also because you are replacing a small percentage of you fuel with something of a lower calorific value then your engine power will fall by a proportionate amount.
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This is a bit of a sweeping statement I think. Millers diesel additives are supposeded to contain the same chemical that the fuel companies use in their premium diesels ie 2ethylhexyl Nitrate, which should have the same effect. Okay I would otherwise agree that a lot of other fuel additives are absolute nonsense. Although no manufacturer approves of the use of additives, there are fleets of busses in the UK which are running on additive-enhanced diesel with some quite good results.
Its not just about the calorific value of the fuel, it is about getting it to burn in a way that extracts as much of this calorific value as possible during combustion.
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there are fleets of busses in the UK which are running on additive-enhanced diesel with some quite good results.
I haven't seen a great rush by haulage companies or bus companies to buy and use any addative ,the purchasing of all fuel and energy for a large MDC comes through the office where I work and believe you me we buy no snake oil only just over £1million pounds worth of diesel they have tested many free trial snake oils and none work if they did we would have bought them.
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Spot the inconsistency:"I JUST added the prescribed quantity of Millers to my newish A4 TDI 140 and it seems that my MPG is now much worse. "
Just = very recently.
You measure MPG in normal driving over 1000s of miles...
So the whole debate is meaningless as the OP has no facts to work on.. unless he has driven 5,000 miles and logged all the fuel purchased?
madf
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Many of these big fleets don't use the same diesel as purchased at your local service station-they get it direct from the refinery and it may be a mix unique to them.
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The refineries make special batches for big customers, do they?
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I read somewhere, its illegal to transport road fuel unless it meets BS specs.
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The base BS spec is very low.You can move anything in a tanker subject to certain laws;only has to meet requirements when sold.
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well ruperts I'm afraid JC2 is correct in what he say's.
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Spot the inconsistency:"I JUST added the prescribed quantity of Millers to my newish A4 TDI 140 and it seems that my MPG is now much worse. "
I have a number of journeys which are longish motorway runs which I have been doing for years. I see my MPG as being degraded since doing 2 of these journeys in the last week, about 450 miles total. I think this is reasonable enough to be able to tell what your MPG is doing via the onboard computer, which may not be 100% accurate, but is consistent.
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Majority of these additives claim to start working in or around 100 miles of putting it in,so any difference should be noticed fairly quickly.
Not seen any proof yet additives do work though,this case included
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Surely the computer figure must be worse;it works by calculating from the time the injector is open(injector flow is constant);if some of the fuel is additive then the accelerator must be pressed in to get the same performance and thus the injector will stay open longer and the computer will show a worse figure.
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