3 questions.
1) How did cars change between 1977 and 1992?
2) How did cars change between 1992 and the present?
3) How do you think cars will change between now and 2022?
I don't know enough to even attempt to answer 1 & 3.
It seems to me that the big changes in the last 15 years are that cars are:
a) much harder to break into, and
b) have much better crash protection.
They also seem to be heavier, but that is largely a byproduct of improved crash protection.
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looks like we almost started the same thread.
Is this is a question for a essay?
1) almost all got bigger, heavier and less glassy.
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We will begin to see control of the vehicle taken away from the driver and replaced by satalite guidence. First will be our ability to decide how fast we can drive, that will automatically be limited electronically. Eventually manual steering will become obsolete and we will get in our cars, type in a destination and sit back with a coffee while we are driven there.
That may seem far fetched by todays standards but it is already technically possible, it is only a matter of getting the infastructure in place. In my middle age, I would expect to see it at least begin to happen in my lifetime, should I reach my three score and ten.
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there's not much more to do technically for this to happen, sat nav is there, though it'll need a way of getting round roadworks, diversions etc.
Collision avoidance technology is already available, as is the ability to keep a car within a lane.
All it needs is integrating and for certain bit of legislation to be passed. You'd be done if you set the cruise to a suitable speed, sat in the outside lane with lane tracking and collision avoidance, sat back and had a coffee and a bite to eat even though you'd probably be safer than the average driver driving conventionally.
I can see cars getting more economical, faster, lighter, infra red head up displays will become standard fit and they'll continue to grow in size, though there'll also be more ultra small cars aka the Smart on the roads
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I read often, only post occasionally
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Well, my Triumph didn't change much between 1964 and 2007, so I suppose it will go on being much the same - just a bit rustier. I might treat it to some re-chromed hub caps though.
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Reading this thread i was thinking, harder to fix! Everybody used to be able to fix cars mechanically, but now its all electronics its getting beyond the diy mechanic.
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Reading this thread i was thinking harder to fix! Everybody used to be able to fix cars mechanically but now its all electronics its getting beyond the diy mechanic.
That's true to a point, but people are also less interested in DIY servicing. Routine stuff can still be done on the driveway with most newish cars, but most people my age (20-somethings) wouldn't even know how to drop the oil! Adjustments/tuning is another issue altogether - I wish I could change my idle-speed with a screwdriver, or reset the ignition-timing with a spanner and a strobe! Main dealer + laptop = big bills. Rather than being harder to fix I'd say above all they've become much more expensive to fix.
Back to the point - there have been plans for cars which literally run on fresh air - would be interesting to see if they come to fruition for mass production in our lifetimes.... www.theaircar.com/
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"All it needs is integrating and for certain bit of legislation to be passed. You'd be done if you set the cruise to a suitable speed, sat in the outside lane with lane tracking and collision avoidance, sat back and had a coffee and a bite to eat even though you'd probably be safer than the average driver driving conventionally."
I can see the technical argument for that, but even collision avoidance will be useless in a some situations, e.g. out-of-control vehicle(s) piling into you, and however blameless the automation, no-one will want to buy a car that could have its own accidents.
This type of thing will only work if everyone is using similar technology. It will doubtless come in the long term (if we haven't all been washed away!) but I can't say I look forward to it...
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I would summarise as follows...
1) proliferation of electronics and microprocessor control (of engine, gearbox, braking etc). First it was contactless ignition, then electronic fuel injection, abs etc. Now we have some alarmingly complex engine management units that are able to control many aspects of an engine's operation. Combine that with the abs units, traction control, stability control and there are many (largely independant) digital control systems in even the humblest of pre 1992 cars
2) Navigation systems and in car comfort. It is becoming increasingly uncommon to find a post 1992 car that does not have air-con, cd player with better trimmed vevicles boasting heated seats, climate control 8 speaker ICE systems. milti adjust seats and controls. Sat nav is not the thing to have (although I find them quite irritating) whether it is a tom Tom type unit, and handheld PC or built system, they seem to be everywhere.
3) Integration of electronic systems in cars. Now our newest cars are filled with electronic control devices (as many as 70 in some cars) and the communication networks to allow them to share information (LIN, CAN, MOST, Flexray etc) are populating our newest vehicles. Although these units work largely independently there is scope to utilise the intercommunication and develop new features by bringing together more than one unit. At its simplest it could be to automatically flash hazard lights if the deceleration exceeds a limit (Citroen C5). Stability control is another example where the brakes, engine, and transmission control are working together. From here is is down to the imagination of the engineers developing the cars. Driverless cars will require integration of power steering, engine, transmission, navigation system, brakes, (fully adaptive) cruise control, parking sensors, video cameras and who knows what else.
It will all come down to robust software, capable microprocessors and COST.
The hard part will be making all this work consistently, safely, reliably all the time even if the owner of the vehicle cannot be bothered to get the car properly serviced and maintained. Just look at the discussions about "my ABS lamp is on, I cannot be bothered to get it fixed so I took out the lamp to pass my MOT now I am going to sell it"
Would you buy a 2nd hand car that drove itself??
Aircraft manufactures do it but 1) aircraft cost a lot of money and 2) aircraft have VERY rigorous maintenance schedules.
I will be happier to drive the car myself!!
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1) How did cars change between 1977 and 1992? 2) How did cars change between 1992 and the present? 3) How do you think cars will change between now and 2022?
The short answer to all three questions is "For the better.".
My reply to anyone who says they don't make cars like they used to is "Thank goodness for that.".
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L\'escargot.
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snipquote - PU
The short answer to all three questions is "For the better.".
My answer is "Largely for the better".
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I am always amazed looking back at things like the spec and finish on say a Ford Escort or Fiesta from the mid 70s, especially a basic model and realising how much more u get in the same type of car today.....Ooh rev counters...clocks....headrests....actual wheel trims....a perfectly fine radio CD player....no exposed paintwork inside...
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My wife's been suggesting for years that the way forward is to replace motorways with self-powered but externally controlled 'car crocodiles'. You could check in at the entrance to the motorway, announce your intended exit and be hooked up - logically, or even physically so that the propulsive effort can be shared - with a group of other vehicles going the same way. The drivers of these would all have checked in with a card and/or code that passed control of their speed and course to a central computer, which would then be able to control traffic on the motorway in a manner more akin to trains or aircraft than cars. You would then be automatically taken off at your exit, from where you would complete the journey under your own control.
Since control over spacing and lane discipline would be so tight, vehicles could move at far higher speeds than would be safe under driver control. Co-operative driver behaviour - the lack of which causes so many traffic problems - would be imposed by the system to keep vehicles moving quickly. Vehicles, of course, would have to satisfy stricter roadworthiness and loading standards to be admissible, since it wouldn't do to have them breaking down or dropping things.
I like the idea. It sacrifices a degree of individual freedom in one respect - deciding how fast you're going to drive - for a more valuable reward: that of arriving sooner, safer and more relaxed. You'd even be able to make phone calls and sort through paperwork on the way to or from a meeting - and rather more safely than people who choose to do that now!
Of course, it's not likely to happen here - although our congested motorways would benefit most - because it would require a big investment in infrastructure and might require a charge at the point of use. But I'd pay to use it, rather than drive the M1 and A1 from Warwickshire to Durham, for example. Wouldn't you?
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Speed limiters, less powerful, more expensive, less available and less choice.
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Sounds a bit like a.... train?! : )
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I had a 1977 Mk2 Escort 1.3 - even though the gearlever came off in my hand once it was a great car - I could do ALL the maintenance myself. Clutch in a couple of hours, rear suspension ditto, strip down and rebuild the engine in an afternoon, everything could be fixed with spanners or a hammer :) Fancy a bit more power? drop in the 1.6 - no ecu to have try and re-map or match up.
I have a 1990 Previa and a 1993 214 so close enough to 1992 - these two have ECUs and sensors but I can still take my spanners and hammer to them to keep them going.
Taking my friends VW Bora V5 or my brother's Megane as a cars of the present, under the bonnet looks like a mechanic's nightmare. Pipework and black boxes all over and no room to swing a hammer. Tales in this forum of headlight bulb changes being a dealer only task and repairs to what start as simple faults that run into the thousands make me yearn for the 'good old days'
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Fat expensive wiring looms will become a thing of the past. All systems in the car will be remotely controlled by encrypted wireless link. Only power cables will be necessary, and only where the current load is greatest - clocks etc will be powered by integrated miniature fuel cells. There will be a single ECU concurrently controlling all of the car's functions.
Relays will be a thing of the past - power transistors will be so cheap they'll have replaced relays in all applications.
You will start your car with your fingerprint.
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Mike Farrow
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So how come when i drove a 2007 Astra it felt,sounded, drove and was identical in every way to the brand new Astra my wife had in 1989(except for the safety features)? By the way,this was not a good thing and i could not recommend one.
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mfarrow {P} see the post in technical regarding basic stuff like car indicators when simple things like these are multiplexed
give me fat juicy global warming copper conduit any 15 years hence
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Interesting to read the answers - and also ukbeefy's parallel thread.
When posting the original post (to quote ukbeefy) I was thinking more along the lines of ?What would a fellow who last bought a car in 1977 notice if he bought a new, fairly basic, car in 1992?? Ditto the fellow who bought a new car in 1992 and then in 2007? And then, extrapolating from current trends, ditto for 2007 and 2022?
(The fellow I have in mind, is, I suppose, myself - and I do buy fairly basic cars. I have yet to own a car with aircon or central locking or electric front windows - and the cars I drive are not very old!)
Anyway, here are my guesses at questions 1 & 2 - though I?m sure I?ll have forgotten something I meant to put in, and got something else wrong. I?m still pretty hesitant about attempting question 3. (Being an untechnical sort, I?ve not really covered technical matters.)
1977 to 1992
1. Wheel trims become universal
2. Car radios become universal
3. Dashboard clocks become universal
4. Sunroofs become common
5. Aircon becomes common
6. hatches largely replace saloons which means folding rears seats and rear wipers become pretty much expected.
1992 to 2007
1. Alloys become a lot more common
2. Car radios give way to Radio-cassettes and then radio-CDs, then MP3s
3. Aircon becomes standard on most family cars, but not universal
4. ABS becomes universal
5. Sunroofs become rarer
6. Automatic chokes become universal
7. 4 speed gearboxes go - all manuals now have at least 5.
8. joystick door mirrors become universal
9. power steering becomes univeral
10. Electric front windows become almost universal
11. Among diesels, CR (or PD) becomes universal, and almost all have turbos, making diesels fast.
12. central locking has become standard on most cars, but not universal
13. Rustproofing vastly improved
14. Head restraints become universal
15. Rev counters become almost universal
2007 - 2022
1. Stability control becomes universal
2. Speed limiters will become far more common
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>6. Automatic chokes become universal
Chokes of all kinds gave way to universal fuel injection with the advent of the catalysed exhaust.
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Interestingly even todaya lot of people still dont know that cars are ecu controlled and if you tell them it is injection they think the insurance is going to be dearer so sometimes its still better to say its got autochoke and move on.
Airbags are another one, a lot of people are afraid of these going off as you traverse the speed bumps of our country ,so i never make a point of using these in pos, or advertising.
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WDB: thanks for the correction. I told you I was untechnical! Guess I should have written "disappearance of choke from the dash"
BB: Ah yes, airbags. I forgot about that one. Invented in the 1960s if I recall correctly, but not found in many UK cars in 1977. In 1992, driver's airbags were becoming common. By 2007, every car seems to have at least half a dozen. I presume one is still able to buy new cars without a passenger airbag? But by 2022, I'm sure every car sold will have at least driver, passenger, and side bags.
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Steam cars will make a comeback by 2020 after a 110 year absence...
madf
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1) 77 to 92:
Cars weren't offered with brown paint and brown interior anymore
Security was getting stepped up, due to the late 80s cars being stolen at a high rate.
Top UK sellers were Fords, the public's favourite 'British' car (at least most were made here). The Escort's rear ashtray was unchanged!
Overdrive switches vanished to be replaced by a fifth gear
Having to spend weekends tinkering the with car was disappearing
Boxy shapes and the rise of the hatchback make cars easy to park.
Two seat convertibles died out then came back again
Porsche went from having a multi car line-up to being on the edge of finishing up for good.
Japanese cars established themselves here. Koreans arrived but were a definite budget choice
Cars were still a four wheel box with an internal combustion engine
2) 92 to 07:
Silver rises spectaculalrly as colour of choice. White paint died out then came back again.
Immobilisers now standard fit. Late 80s cars are still the ones being pinched.
Top UK sellers were Fords, the public's favourite 'British' car (hmm, Tourneo about it by the end)
Five gears often rise to six, or even seven in an auto.
You can't spend weekends tinkering with the car, even if you want to.
All shapes and sizes are now built, but fancy curves at the back make many cars a pain to park.
Porsche went from nearly going under to being one of the most profitable manufacturers.
Korean cars established themselves here. Awareness of the Chinese arrived but these were a definite budget choice
Cars are still a four wheel box with an internal combustion engine
3) 07 to 22:
Brown paint makes a comeback?
Late 80s cars are still the most stolen until there are none left
Top UK sellers are Fords, the public's favourite 'British' car (all the non Ford brands probably sold)
Manual gears won't go higher than six
The slightest tinkering needed will mean scapping the car
More variety of shapes, sensors and parking systems become commonplace. Especially once the average car becomes wider than the average parking space.
Government climate policy makes manufacturers such as Porsche struggle?
Chinese cars establish themselves here. Who is next on the scene?
Cars are still a four wheel box with an internal combustion engine - there will be exceptions but not the majority
There's a gradual progression, but 15 years is not that long. After looking back, the cars of 2022 won't be fundamentally different to today.
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(The fellow I have in mind is I suppose myself - and I do buy fairly basic cars. I have yet to own a car with aircon or central locking or electric front windows - and the cars I drive are not very old!)
Just what do you drive. My facelift mondeo had all these things. I sold it a about a year ago for just over £1lk.
I would have thought that 10year old 1.8LX Mondeo a basic car?
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Just what do you drive? My facelift mondeo had all these things. . . . I would have thought that 10year old 1.8LX Mondeo a basic car?
CJay - I drive a Citroen Berlingo and a Ford Ka. (So for the likes of me, a Mondeo is a posh car!)
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mfarrow {P} see the post in technical regarding basic stuff like car indicators when simple things like these are multiplexed
Within 15 years processors will have become so cheap and small that you could build in redundancy into these systems to prevent any failure. The cars will have three modules, each processing the same data. If one of these modules fails, you will get a light on the dash, but the car will continue to run as normal.
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Mike Farrow
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I think we shall be riding on Water, aswell as using water as form of power.
Then we shall have to find another method of stopping them other than throwing an Anchor over the side.
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One of the reasons I just got a boxster is that I think there are only 2 times in a mans life whe he can buy a sports car - before having kids, or after they have left university - I'm 27 now and I honestly think that by the time my kids (who will be born in approximately 4 years!) leave uni, in 26 years time, we will all be riding around in speed limited self-driving Gee-Wizz type cars.
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Isn't a stability control program now a compulsary requirement (well, in 2008/2009 anyway), much like ABS is today?
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>>give me fat juicy global warming copper conduit any 15 years hence
Hear hear..at least you can poke a multimeter on the end of said conduit and see whether the volts are there or not; pretty soon you'll need a logic analyser or use time domain reflectometry to work out why your sidelight bulb doesn't light up :-((
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Governments and pressure from environmentalists will continue to drive down emissions. Engines will continue to downsize with the use of turbos becoming more commonplace (as we are already seeing with VW,FIAT and even BMW). So nothing surprising there.
German manufacturers are already working to a standard for the motorway snake but don't expect it being fully operational before 2019.
Does anyone know what happened to the engine SAAB were working on a few years ago which was 1.5 litres in size I seem to recall and produced greater horsepower when required by using variable compression ratios. I think they had a working version but I lost track of it. Did it die a death or is it still being refined ?
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They will start to disappear, at first by getting smaller. It will become more and more expensive to have a large car.
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The only way I have ever made a car get smaller is by driving it into a truck! I wish it had disappeared, because then my insurance wouldn't have gone up so much. Ouch.
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