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As I said by not mentioning any names and following my eyes !
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Thanks for all the replies. If I buy a diesel car and put petrol in it, then that's my fault and I'll have to pay for it.
But I am looking at buying a 3 year old diesel, so the purpose of my query was to ask whether misfuelling tends to lead to immediate catastrophic failure (in which case, I'm not worried, as any previous misfuelling should have already been repaired) or damage only (in which case I could get the bill down the line due to the previous owner's misfuelling). Can someone answer that point?
If misfuelling can cause damage only, but the car still being driveable, how can I check for this before buying? Is there anything I should be able to spot on a test drive? Should damage be obvious from the MOT emissions test?
Thanks
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I think you'll find some considerable postings on Mondeos in the BR in particular over on Tech. Failures apparently linked to misfuelling. I would think long and hard about it. There was a poster on here who misfuelled his RS4 and the advice given was to move it on, someone will be buying that car.
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Yes, but am I minimising that risk if I buy from a Honda main dealer, as the cars go through their Honda approved process? Is there anything that they or I (on a test drive) should see or hear if a car has been misfuelled - or could I end up buying a car which drives perfectly well but the problem only becomes apparent later?
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I doubt whether you could tell. More tales of woe about TDCi engines than anything else I can remember (off the top of my head on this site - but some would say that this was due to the sheer volume of cars). Unlike taxes and death you can't guarantee anything - its a lottery.
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I doubt whether you could tell. More tales of woe about TDCi engines than anything else I can remember
>>
A hell of a lot of the diesel horror stories I think are due to teh large number of common rail failures in the very numerous Ford TDCI's, this coupled with Renault diesel EGR problems makes the lions share of the woes. I',ve had 3 diesels which have collectively done about 160,000 miles with no problems.
The problems with diesels are mostly due to them not being worked hard I think.
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get the name of the last driver/owner and ask them honestly
"did you misfuel it" ??????????apart from that all you can do is either pay a lot for a warranty that wont cover it or point your prayer mat due south east south
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Yes but am I minimising that risk if I buy from a Honda main dealer
No
Is there anything that they or I (on a test drive) should see or hear if a car has been misfuelled
No- or could I end up buying a car which drives perfectly well but the problem only becomes apparent later?
Yes - apparently
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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DO NOT buy a diesel, been driving diesel engined cars since 1990, I change them every 3 - 5 years, over the years they have got quieter, smoother, more powerful, more responsive but LESS RELIABLE, MORE COMPLICATED and just HIDEOUSLY EXPENSIVE
WHEN they go wrong.
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Whenever a CR Diesel fails the cry goes up 'misfuelling!'. In truth, unless there is petrol in the tank at the time of failure, its hard to prove one way or the other. The manufacturers are naturally enough keen to blame misfuelling for CR injection system failure - especailly if the car is under warranty!
In truth, nothing is provable and you are taking a gamble if you buy a used CR Diesel. If you are doing high mileage and Diesel engine will cut your fuel bills significantly then go for it. If the economics are less clear cut (you only drive average mileage) and intend to keep the car outside of the warranty period then go for a petrol engine. You will also be eliminating (most probably) a turbo and a dual-mass flywheel from the equation - that's two expensive parts off the 'to fail' list for a start!
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I really wouldn't let it worry you - unless you know the previous owners and they are honest with you its not worth worrying about.
It is correct to say that more things can go wrong with a diesel because they are extremely advanced these days. It can be costly if something major happens but something major can happen with a petrol engine too.
I'd say there are only a few major things with diesels, 1) fuel pump, 2) timing belt/chain 3) turbo (in for good measure).
Turbo's aren't bank breaking and fuel pumps aren't the end of the world, timing belts are the thing to worry about. If that goes so (probably) does your engine. As long as you stick to service intervals and get the belt changed when suggested then you will be ok.
Diesels are solid engines that will run for a few hundred thousand miles if treated with respect. They have sensors on everything so your engine will go into limp mode (to protect itself) even if a valve is clogged up. Even from all the posts you see about diesels the vast majority have trouble free motoring.
Break it in properly if you own new, always let it warm up before accelerating hard and do try and let the turbo idle before you turn off the engine - then you should be fine. Give it a good boot everynow and again if your diesel doesn't automatically burn off the extra soot lying around.
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Whenever a CR Diesel fails the cry goes up 'misfuelling!'. In truth unless there is petrol in the tank at the time of failure its hard to prove one way or the other. >>
Even if there is no petrol in the tank it can be premature failure based on wear caused by an earlier mis-fuel.
While the Ford system as fitted to the new Mondeo is not totally fool proof, i.e. filling stations can mis-fuel their tanks, also water can be present etc, it would be interesting to see if the number of fuel system issues are less than with the same engine (in the case of the 2.0 diesel) in the 407 etc. Or perhaps Ford could compare stats for the 1.8 and 2.0 in the Focus / C-Max v the new Mondeo.
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Thanks for all the replies. The consensus seems to be that buying a second hand diesel is a gamble. While that may not have been the advice I wanted, I will respect it as I know you lot are independent.
I only do about 14k pa, so the economics are marginal. It was more that I was attracted to the more accessible torque of a diesel engine.
Out of interest, is there a similar issue with putting diesel into a petrol car? It's just that you don't seem to hear of this as a problem. Is it because people don't tend to make this mistake or does this sort of misfuel cause less of a problem?
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>>buying a second hand diesel is a gamble>>
Yes though economy wise it does not take long to make a worthwhile saving offsetting the risk, perhaps as much as £500 a year at 14,000 miles.
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"buying a second hand diesel is a gamble"
I guess so judging by the posts on here, but our last 4 "family" cars have been high mileage (for the year) diesels. 2 BXs and 2 Xantias. All of them seemed to have been used by long distance (?) commuters, a couple with 60k after 2 years. We have then taken them, at our lower annual mileage to 170k (sold to friend who took it to over 200k and then sold it on), 140k (sold to another friend, 100k (traded in), and current one is 7 years old and about 94k. None of them has ever had the engine touched except for a couple of sets of glowplugs (changed by me), cambelts (when required) and oil changes. I haven't a clue whether any of them have been misfuelled before we bought them.
Maybe we've been lucky.......
I think our next car will be a second hand diesel, and if people keep talking them down we should get a good deal!
--
Phil
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Can someone answer my query about why there doesn't seem to be similar problems with putting diesel into a petrol engine?
Thanks
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Can someone answer my query about why there doesn't seem to be similar problems with putting diesel into a petrol engine? Thanks
If I haven't made a silly mistake it's something to do with the lubricity of petrol, or rather the lack of it, and the fragility of mass-market cr high-pressure diesel pumps. If petrol goes through them they are damaged, an cost KKKKK to replace.
Older diesels were not so badly affected.
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BX's and Xantias will not have been common rail diesel so petrol not a problem.
My Mondeo TDCi might be playing up again - monitoring it carefully. So far it has had two EGR's and a leak in the fuel system.
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Maybe we've been lucky....... I think our next car will be a second hand diesel and if people keep talking them down we should get a good deal! -- Phil
Phil
You have been driving 'old school' Diesels - you could run 'em on just about anything combustible. Newer CR designs are a totally different technology.
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"Xantias will not have been common rail diesel "
"'old school' Diesels"
"Newer CR designs are a totally different technology"
Well yes, apart from the current 7 year old Xantia HDi.
--
Phil
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A colleague of mine purchased a brand new Mondeo diesel about four years ago because it was said to be a good car for caravan towing. It has been the most unreliable car I have ever come across. for a privately owned well looked after car its been terrible. He had more problems with the fuel injection than you could count and the dealers have had it more than he has, probably every bit of the engine was replaced at one time or another.
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Out of interest, is there a similar issue with putting diesel into a petrol car? It's just that you don't seem to hear of this as a problem. Is it because people don't tend to make this mistake or does this sort of misfuel cause less of a problem?
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It's because it's almost impossible - the diesel nozzle is too big to fit in the petrol filler cap.
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I think its difficult to put diesel into a petrol tank because the diesel spout is bigger than the filler hole. Even if you do put a bit in I think the car will just splutter to a halt and need flushing out, rather than damage occuring.
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An old, and sadly now deceased, friend of the family filled a Volvo 760 V6 with diesel about 20 years ago and it cost a fortune to flush through the FI system.
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Its not difficult to clean Diesel out of a petrol car - done it myself a few times (not on my own cars, I hasten to add!).
Bascially pump out the tank and drain the fuel lines. Flush through with clean petrol and fit a new fuel filter. Then give it a 20 mile drive to get any remnants out of the injectors. Diesel is quite benign compared to petrol so does not do any damage to the fuel system components.
The biggest problem is what to do with the old fuel mix!
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Thanks everyone for all your replies.
In order to minimise the risk, it does seem to be a choice between a second hand petrol or a new diesel. At least buying brand new means I know there would be no misfuelling (unless I make a mistake).
But I don't want to spend >£20k on a brand new Accord diesel, so it looks like I'll spend £10k on a second hand petrol.
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Someone on here says if you do enough mileage you could be saving £500pa on fuel alone with a diesel. I think you've made the right choice based on your mileage because:
- Not that high
- You didn't say how long you'd keep so the £500pa saving might not be that huge and the petrol car no doubt cheaper
- Difference in cost between petrol and diesel at second hand prices might cover the difference in MPG
- Some have been disappointed in the MPG of the earlier diesel Accord's so the saving may not have been so great
- And if you keep it long enough then the savings surely will have to pay for some costly repairs.... but then again it's a Honda not a Ford :-)
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These are all reasons why I'm buying a 2.5 petrol engined car as my second motor, less to worry about :-)
Blue
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Someone on here says if you do enough mileage you could be saving £500pa on fuel alone with a diesel. I think you've made the right choice based on your mileage because:
It can easily be £3500 over 100k miles, that goes a long way towards fuel system issues.
However there have been Honda CR issues reported on here not least of which is poor economy.
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