Hi all!
We have a P-reg Rover 214 (P) whose coolant tank has mysteriously run dry - no signs of any leaks and only topped up with water 2 weeks ago.........then whilst being driven last week emitted a nasty strong odour and started 'bubbling' under the bonnet. After allowing it to cool down I discovered a thick brown gunky mess in the coolant reservoir tank. Spoke to our trust mechanic who diagnoses gunk as combination of water and oil, and suspects either head gasket or cylinder head problems - minimum costs £500, maximum £800 depending upon severity of problem.
Have heard that this is an inherent problem with Rovers which did not result in a manufacturer recall as Rover denied that any inherent fault existed!!
Bottom line is - we only paid £800 for the car 15 mths ago from the dealership (approx 60K miles on the clock), so reluctant to throw good money after bad!!
Can anyone please offer any words of wisdom for our predicament?
It has been suggested that it might be prudent to try selling the car for spares now that Rover are effectively no more.
A suggested price of asking around £500 for it on eBay?
Any other reliable sources of where to sell (in West Suffolk area preferably) to get a half decent price would be very welcome.
Many thanks!
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TBH for what you paid for it was a bit steep,its up to you if you have it done,but in my opinion it isnt worth it,been there done it,but I got shot and I`m a mechanic but could not be bothered to do it.
Your problem is going to be if the job is not done correctly,you will be in the same position again very soon,to sell you will be lucky to get £200 scrap £50-80
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Thanks for the advice mmd!
Is eBay a worthwhile source for trying to sell it, or have you any other ideas please?
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I think starting the auction on ebay at 100 pounds would be more realistic. A quick search would suggest they are fetching less than 500 pounds on ebay without h gasket gone.
Rover spares are still very easily obtained at the moment and there are lots of these models around that are breaking.
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cheers for that scrap metal!
any other suggestions out there please?
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should think you could probably source another engine and have it fitted for less than £500, these engines are 10 a penny and are generally cheap and are very easy to fit, id get it changed personally as they are actually ok cars apart the basic design faults that plague the k series engines
chris
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I'm afraid I have to agree with mmd and scrapmetal.
The irony is that Rover spares are plentiful because scrapyards are full of Rovers that have been victims of the useless k series engine. Its little wonder that Rover went caput really.
I would suggest a start price of £50 on ebay might yield a better response but being realistic I wouldnt expect it to get much above £150
Sorry to be so negative but as far as ebay is concerned, the golden rule when selling anything is to start the bidding low and set the reserve at the minimum you want for the item. Setting the start at £50 and you will get something back for the car. Start it at anything above £100 and you'll be lucky to get a single bid.
Good luck, Stuart
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scrap the thing walk away live the dream
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Rule 1: don't throw good money after bad. Spend £800 and it will be worth £600 tops..
so Rule 2
Sell it for what it will fetch.
I disagree with everyone above. You want lots of bidders who get carried away. So £1 starting Bid and NO Reserve.
You just want to get rid of it for whatever it will fetch. It cost £800 and you got 18 months' motoring. Great.. Don't be greedy... After all the worst case is you don't sell it . The best case is £200 tops imo.
So advertise it stressing the MOT and the good points .. and list the bad points ... but then say low starting price...
Anything you get over £1 is a bonus cos according to Rule 1 above it's worth -£200 (600-800) .
So you just want to get rid of a money pit worth more for spares to someone else.
Rule 3..
Next time don't buy a Rover unless it is worth £800 and you pay £200...imo
madf
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Hi
I would do it, I Have done loads and if it?s done right (replacing the dowels) you don?t get the problem back. You then have a good car that you will have no more problems with (unlike other make that you can buy for the same money). Good money after back is what you would be doing if you e-bay it and get £50 then spend £800 on another car that has faults that you have to spend more money on.
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(replacing the dowels) you don?t get the problem back
You do,thing is the real problem was never corrected, so whatever you do is only delaying the problem occuring again-NOT actually curing it, and so it carries on and on happening!!
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Brilliant advice. If you have backed a loser, don't throw any more money at it.
Replace it with something which is right for your job and whch has a good reliability/durability record without any really horrible "stock" faults. All cars have a few - find out what they are and work round them, altering the service schedule as required.
The K-series engine and a lack of galvanised panels (look at an old Metro or an 820) finished Rover. Leave the Chinese copies to somebody else.
659.
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Brilliant advice (madf).
659.
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Guys we are talking £500 to £800 rovers are so cheap you I don?t think you can get a better car for that money. I used to work for rover and did the rover course when the k series engine first came out, it?s a good engine on the hole. I have not had another head gasket with oil in the water on one after I have done the dowels, guess I have just been lucky. Maybe done them after a water pump or radiator has gone. Got one that has done over 200.000 and still uses no oil and still sounds good, could nock off 100.000 and no one would think twice.
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www.motorshop1.co.uk/k_seal.htm
I have absolutely no idea if this stuff is any good or if it causes any problems.
It was mentioned on another forum and MAYBE worth a try.
If one of the more experienced backroom members advises to avoid it, then listen to them.
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I never recommend additives in the k-series due to its small cooling capacity,doesnt take much to fry this engine!
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Too late for this if the oil is in the water, but i have known someone use this with a k series engine that had a slight leak and they have had no probs since (was about 2 years ago), however i would always recommend to get the leak fixed properly.
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Caution it would be easy to spend lot of money and still have a car worth nothing.
But to spend the same money on another car you may still be buying faults.
If the job is done right the gasket and head will be good for a lot of miles yet despite all the pessimism of the people scared of the engine. It is basically a good engine design not quite finished correctly (designed and introduced too quickly ) but is a good power/economy engine when running properly.
Can you attempt the job yourself? Not the easiest to start on but if you ruin it you will have lost no more ?
Difficult to advise either way, but be careful what you buy if you buy in same price range. I always advise over £2000 or under £500 for any car you are looking for. Between the two its difficult to justify expensive repairs if needed and expensive to throw awy too.
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it?s a good engine on the hole. >>
Or, it's a good engine, apart from the hole!
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Hi,
Sorry to hear of your predicament. There are a number of factors to take into consideration before getting rid of the car. Most important is the condition of the rest of the car. IF its relatively low mileage and in top condition then its worth considering having the work done. Also, how long did you anticipate keeping the car. If it was more than 3 years then again its worth doing. If its done well, then theres no reason why it can't continue to give good service for a long time to come. Only by taking the head off can the real cost be assessed. It is not always necessary to skim the head if its caught in its early stages. you could be faced with a few hours labour and the cost of a gasket set.
For those who need to know why this is common on 'K' series, here is the definitive answer. If you look at the head gasket for this engine, you need to look closely at the pressed in rings that circle the bores. You will see they are pushed through from the underside and then crimped over. This means that this crimping press's directly onto the head face. When the gasket fails, these 'fire rings' as the are called become loose and 'chatter' against the head causing the familiar groove which necessitates the head being skimmed.
How do I know this? I worked for rover for 15 years in Problem analysis dept and later as a Product Specialist for Unipart. I met with the guys at Federal Mogul (Payen to you) who at the time supplied these gaskets OE to Rover. There was considerable discussions about turning these fire rings over to be crimped on the side that sits on the cylinder liners (the theory being that the liner was harder than the fire ring and no damage would occur to the liner or head) but the cost of changing all the tooling was prohibitive.
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
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Probably very true Robin, but that doesnt explain the poor quality castings of the heads themselves (100's returned to manufacturer) and the low coolant capacity that allows it to overheat too quickly if any problem occurs, and the unequal coolant distribution in the head and block that allows overheating very qucikly if any blockage occurs in any water way etc.
It was a good engine flawed by being rushed into production before all the problems had been sorted (gasket included).
Not all the head gasket problems are/were caused by the gasket itself.
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Hi Yorkiebar,
Fully agree with what you say. When the engine is set up and running well it is a good economical power plant. However, how many engines these days are designed to hold a thimbleful of water vs weight saving. The manufacturer these days is'nt that concerned with coolant capacity - just how many they can get out of the door and onto the forecourt showrooms. That said, the 'K' series did have flaws that didn't help with its cooling. The jiggle valve in the inlet manifold gets blocked up and causes all sorts of flow problems. I remember a colleague who said that to stick a small round projectile down the tube and give a swift knock with the Rover special tool 18G 1 (hickory handle, metal lump one end) and it destroyed the valve and allowed coolant to flow much better, reducing hotspots. In most cases the engine is relatively easy to work on and access to most bolts/nuts good. Having looked at the Haynes manual doing a head gasket is a fairly easy method for the budding mechanic to follow.
I still reckon if the car is in good condition, low mileage then its worth doing
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These are the views of Robin the Technician with 35 years in the trade. I fix, therefore I am...
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I used to run a large engine test facility at the time the K-series was being developed. I knew quite a few of the Rover Group engine development engineers at that time, although admittedly on other (bigger) jobs.
I don't wish to sound unreasonably harsh, but they were clueless. The K-series was very much a copy of the aluminium block wet liner PSA engines, only Rover had no idea of tolerancing, thermal cycling requirements, sludge allowance etc. etc. that any well respected engine designer would know all about. The icing on the cake was that the factory were not always willing to work to the specified tolerances, let alone those needed to make this "floppy liner" design work.
Obviously, I used to talk to engine designers from other companies - the difference was significant. Rover RIP.
659.
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