"The obsession with passive safety is one of the anti-motoring things that get right up my nose."
Yes, we wouldn't want to be driving around in safe cars, would we? I do wonder what is anti-motoring about it. The developments in safety mean to me that in the event I have an accident, me, my wife and my kids are more likely to walk away from them than we would have been years ago.
And, as a point of interest, I don't think nannying has anything to do with it. 20 years ago, safety didn't sell cars. It's been raised to people's attention to a level that now makes it part of the purchasing decision, so safer cars sell better. Thus safer cars get built. Capitalism at its best.
V
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You may be partly right Vin. It's a matter of attitude. Mine is that this obsession with passive safety is a pain in the fundament. I prefer the active sort. I like cars to be light, agile, economical and fun. I don't like them fat, bland, and filled with complex go-wrong devices.
Those obsessed with passive safety think they are going to crash or that someone is going to crash into them. I don't think these things.
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When the front of that car compresses so much the thought that goes through my mind is "where did the engine go"!
I understand Eurozone cars are being designed to be good at the NCAP type tests which are still not real world. But the way that car deforms, the driver (?) door buckle and let the driver part way out is very frightening.
I do hope the two Chinese companies build the Rover 75,25, MG TF according to UK specs.
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Posted after watching most of the video and not reading all the text. That was 40mph frontal impact. I am speechless. I'd fare better probably on a push bike at 40mph hitting a concrete block.
Edited by Webmaster on 02/05/2008 at 21:01
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Those obsessed with passive safety think they are going to crash or that someone is going to crash into them.
I used to think that accidents were something that happened to other people ~ until I was involved in one.
--
L\'escargot.
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"Those obsessed with passive safety think they are going to crash or that someone is going to crash into them"
I've had three accidents worthy of note. In one, I was hit from the side when someone pulled out as I passed a junction. In the second, I was hit from the rear while driving along a motorway at 70mph (and lucky not to be pushed into the barrier). In the third, I was sitting in a traffic queue when someone hit the side of my car.
So, I DO think that people are going to crash into me, largely because it's happened to me three times.
V
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I prefer the active sort. I like cars to be light agile economical and fun.
Does that car look it to you? :o)
It is a passive and active safety non-starter. It is a worthless POS!
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The developments in safety mean to me that in the event I have an accident
You are very, very, very unlikely to have one of *them*!
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People who go on about this are Snip - PU
Bit strict PU surely? What's wrong with that?
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I prefer the active sort. I like cars to be light, agile, economical and fun.
Like F1 cars perhap -b ut that doesn't mean they can't be safe in an accident does it - viz, the spectacular crash of Robert Kubica in his BMW, he survived with light concussion & a sprain(?) I believe - so fun,light & agile (maybe not economical!) can be compatible with safety, no?
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Just looks like a crashed car to me. What's all the fuss about? The obsession with passive safety is one of the anti-motoring things that get right up my nose.
What !!
So you would want to die or be crippled in a crash that most other modern cars can avoid ??
What is anti motoring about having better safety built in to which ever car you choose ??
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I found the statement unbelievable as well.
The irony of his point is that there would be alot more "anti-motoring" legislation/feeling about if cars were as unsafe as the pictures show.
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And oh how we laughed when Datsun, Toyota, Honda et al started exporting to us around 30 (?) years ago....
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And oh how we laughed when Datsun Toyota Honda et al started exporting to us around 30 (?) years ago....
Oh yes, and rightly so. They learned fast and so will the Chinese. But to me this looks like the manufacturer misunderstood the Western market entirely. We don't want just cheap, reliable, and comfortable. We want safe and safe costs money. To compete with Renault, BMW, Toyota and the rest, cheap is not enough. I think this is just terrifying and praise be we do tests like this. No doubt this kind of thing is the reason Rover was snapped up; the R&D into European safety requirements must have been worth the money on its own.
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I've some resonance with Lud's view - but until more drivers start to act responsibly and concentrate on what they're doing, I'll have all the passive safety I can get.
I'll cite 2 accidents that have happened to me - either could have resulted in death or serious injury.
The first was entering a right hand bend, when a car coming the other way went straight on into mine (he would have gone through the wall on my side of the road had I not been there). Cause - bald tyres, wet road, idiot driving. My chance of avoiding it - nil.
The second was when I was waiting to turn right, 2 children in back seat. Hit in the back by a driver who had been aiming to pass me on the left at 30mph and missed! Cause - no idea. My chance of avoiding it - nil.
An unfortunate effect of cars being so much better though is that many drivers expect too much - a 40mph head on crash, offset or otherwise, is pretty risky whatever you are in. Active safety, like handling improvements, has the same effect - anyone who ever drove a 2 litre Cortina (all of 90bhp) knew they had to think carefully about where and how hard they pressed the accelerator on a damp road, but may drivers of modern fwd cars have never experienced a skid. The first one they have is likely to be at a much higher speed and will put them in a ditch, or worse.
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for the size of car and the speed then the condition of the car is unacceptable.
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That appaling result is enough to kill sales of chinese designed and built cars into western europe for 5 years. Its a shocking indication of how badly the chinese have read the market, and suprising that they have learned not much from current car design.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Rubbish. They'll be up to speed (where violent decelerations are concerned) by the end of next year. And TVM will be driving a Modern Gentleman within the decade.... :o)
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Rubbish. They'll be up to speed (where violent decelerations are concerned) by the end of next year. And TVM will be driving a Modern Gentleman within the decade.... :o)
I would not been seen dead in one of them
I will have the lucky bloom instead.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I think they get it, I just don't think they care. We lap up enough of their shoddy stuff as it is. (Not that it all is, but carp or not, someone is buying it)
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Fortunately I won´t be crashing at 40 mph whilst driving my DVD player anytime soon.
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Fortunately I won´t be crashing at 40 mph whilst driving my DVD player anytime soon.
It makes the picture jolt something chronic.
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When I crashed and wrote off the laguna, the cd player did not even skip.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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So I still get to enjoy my music as the dashboard comes up to give me kiss?
Alright!
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How long did it take for public perception of Japanese cars to become positive? (it's not a rhetorical question, I'm really not old enough to remember!)
With PR like this though I'm sure that people will hold prejudices against Chinese cars for many happy years to come :-)
It's a shame really as the upcoming crop of MG TFs and 7's should be pretty reasonable cars, and I certainly love what Roewe have done with the interior of what was the Rover 75, they've made it look fresher than Rover's facelifts ever did.
For those that question passive safety, it certainly isn't as important as avoiding the crash in the first place, which active stuff will help you do, but sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid a crash, and as such, I would never buy such a deathtrap when there are western competitors out there that won't kill me for the same price!
Blue
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The HGV that crashed into the back of our hire Fiesta in Italy last summer at some speed (not sure as I passed out and have little memory) actually did less damage than what happens to the front of this vehicle. And that's a Fiesta. Yes badly damaged and a little shorter afterwards but this video clip was in my opinion shocking - how can the car be that bad.
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The A-Pillars on the Fiesta are *substanially* thicker than on the BS6.
Blue
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How long did it take for public perception of Japanese cars to become positive? (it's not a rhetorical question I'm really not old enough to remember!)
As I recall the main beef people had with Japanese cars in the 70s was the rust. In terms of safety, build quality and refinement they were never too far off the mark (safety was not a strong point of many cars really back then), and reliability-wise they were light-years ahead of any BL or Ford product.
This result is quite shocking. I was prepared to overlook that Jiangling 4x4 last year as its result was little different to the old GM Frontera on which it was based.
But there is little excuse for this lack of regard for safety in a new design. It puts the 3-star vs 5-star NCAP debates into some perspective it must be said.
I can't recall a time when any new car from any manufacturer was this far behind the accepted norms in safety terms. Some Korean efforts around 6 or 7 years ago were weak, but not like this -- and they tended to be the small, cheap little cars selling for about £6000 -- not a £15,000 bruiser that's supposed to be taking on the like of the Mondeo and Vectra (or even Magentis and Sonata).
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So I still get to enjoy my music as the dashboard comes up to give me kiss?
Playing some of that modern headbanger music, were you?
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From May 2007 issue of Automotive Engineer:
Safety in China is still a complex issue. Driver styles are reckless. Ferrari might consider a Shanghi taxi driver to replace the elder Schumacher brother: it would have to fit a horn and an ashtray, but it would bring real agression back to the team. .....
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You want to see something scary?
Chinese 4x4 gets the crash treatment (with a look at the results afterwards),
tinyurl.com/249jlj
Or how about the crash test of the American Pontiac Montana,
tinyurl.com/2792ca
Cars this unsafe are out there. All you can do is to make an 'informed decision' when you buy. As said on other posts, the problem is that although you can control your driving, you can't control other peoples.
Chris
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Chris, the 4x4 one was the Jiangling I was talking about. That particular car is merely a victim of age of design -- the Frontera/Izusu Trooper of the early 90s was no better.
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Just been looking on Euro NCAP, my 10-yr old Primera seems to fare better than the Chinese car, although my kness and below are going to be in trouble if I hit a concrete barrier at 40mph....
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Playing some of that modern headbanger music were you?
Dashboard Confessional. ;o)
Also, I thought that 4x4 was a Frontera, thanks for the confirmation.
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