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The glow-plugs should stay on for about 3-5 secs after engine fires.
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Hi ,
I know this thread is getting on a bit but I've recently bought a 1.8 TD Mondeo on an 'L' plate. Do you know the correct procedure for starting. When I turn on the ignition the dash lamp for glowplugs lights for 2-3 secs max. Turning the key further (with foot flat to floor or no throttle at all)fails to start. If I reset the ignition and try again, the glowplug light stays on for 1 sec, then if I crank it for long enough it splutters into life (seems to run fine otherwise).seems very hard on the battery/starter motor.
Any ideas/what am I doing wrong?
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Almost definately dead glowplugs.
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Steve,
How does it start later in the day when it has cooled right down but had a run earlier?
David W
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I'm lead to believe that when the glowplug light goes out (after 3-5sec) this doesn't mean the plugs have switched off, just that they are warm enough to permit starting.
When you start the engine, they should remain on for a while, up to 15sec after it catches, before the compressed diesel/air mixture is sufficiently hot to guarantee good running.
This is something to do with the emissions equipment fitted to Mondeos, a single catalyst in the downpipe roughly under the soles of your feet!
You can tell if the glowplugs do stay on after it has fired up by keeping the door open and watching the interior light - it should get brighter when the 'plugs cut out.
>>How does it start later in the day when it has cooled right down but had a run earlier?
It takes a fully warmed-through engine up to 36 hours to cool right down, depends on the ambient temperature in Skegness.
Hey Vansboy, *I've* seen you on the M1! ;-)
I ran 2 Maestro 700 diesel vans about 6 years back, H275HCT in white and H585BFT in blue. 350,000miles each before they dropped! We never used to change glowplugs, although on a cold morning you'd switch the ignition on, wait 15sec for the light to go out, wait another 15sec, then switch ignition off and repeat 4 or 5 times. THEN they started....
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DW >>How does it start later in the day when it has cooled right down but had a run earlier?
Dtd >>It takes a fully warmed-through engine up to 36 hours to cool right down, depends on the ambient temperature in Skegness.
OK I'll put it another way.
Assuming the engine compressions are fine and the battery/starter condition are OK to produce a good cranking speed then the fault is most likely to be glowplugs or the diesel filter housing failing.
I was trying to help with the diagnosis between the two as a cold engine and a coolish one can both need some glowplug action. Hence poor glowplugs will be an issue when dead cold, not when up to full temperature but faulty plugs may still give poor starting when the thing has been standing for a while.
What often confirms the filter housing as at fault is the thing being a pig to start first thing but then it is fine all day, even if left for a bit...then a pig the next morning.
Of course just to replace the glowplugs and see what happens is the best option for the DIYer, not a favourite for customers though if you charge them for slinging in a set and it makes no difference.
David W
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Does anyone know what the problem is exactly with the filter housing?
Can it be repaired?
Any idea what the breaker price is if it requires replacing..
Many thanks
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Does anyone know what the problem is exactly with the filter housing? Can it be repaired? Any idea what the breaker price is if it requires replacing.. Many thanks
I think it's the diaphragm inside which perishes, since replacement of rubber seals made no difference on mine. I got one from a scrappy for a fiver but it was just as bad as the old one. Tried taking old one apart to investigate but in the end gave up - they are sort of "sealed" with metal clips. Paid £60 for a new one - seemed expensive to me but was same from Ford and Cit dealers and independent bloke I went to
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Steve,
Phil is right.
Hardly worth messing round at the breakers to find one that could be u/s on fitting or fail in another month. Their prices are very variable, I've been asked betwen £20 and £80 for the same part (ABS ECU) from the same car by two different members of staff in the yard.
£60 is about the price I would expect for this new. Given the annoyance of a slow starting diesel in the winter, and the fact that this replacement is likely to outlast the car, I think they are decent value.
Oddly enough I seem to hear of them failing more on Fords than Citroens.
MM
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Just a point of warning, from personal experience: do NOT try to economise by using h@lfords, or similar, replacement glowplugs.
I had a set pack up after 3k miles, leading to a much more expensive(£70!) starter relay being replaced unnecessarily, because "It CAN'T be the plugs, they are nearly new" ! !
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You can aso test glowplugs by checking the resistance with a meter.
IIRC they should give about 5 ohms resistance. (Someone may like to verify this)
If you get infinity or zero they are dead.
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Glow plugs fitted to XUD diesels (Cit/pug) pull around 12 amps each, so only measure 1 ohm resistance. I'd have thought others were similar.
Richard
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RW
You're probably right.
It was about four years ago when I checked this on the old set of plugs out of my 309, but even with a cheap meter it was possible to identify the good from the dud.
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Thanks for all this chaps, very helpfull.
What brand of plugs are the best? I've been quoted £6.50 each locally for 'Direct' ones.
Seems to start fine after a run etc. local mechanic suggested jump leads to each plug (after removal) and the ensuing glow should be from tip to body rather than the other way round.
relay stays on for 8 secs (same as her Escort).
Cheers again
Steve
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Tthat sounds v. cheap for glowplugs. I used cheap ones once and they only lasted about 6 months. The originals had lasted 100,000 miles! Go for the best - as fitted originally.
PhilW
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I'll try it this weekend, Cheers
Steve
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>Glow plugs fitted to XUD diesels (Cit/pug) pull around 12 amps each, so only measure 1 ohm resistance. I'd have thought others were similar.
Are you sure that the resistance is not very temperature dependent? I=V/R will NOT apply to cold R measurement.
pmh (was peter)
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Result!!
Changed glowplugs/recharged battery (lost radio code in process doh),
and away she went...
Many thanks
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Hmmmmn, maybe spoke too soon....
Its gone back to misbehaving again, same symptoms as before!!!
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I had this problem on my wife's Peuoet 106 diesel. It is simple to test the glowplus with no equipment. Just remove them one by one and test each by earting each by a wire to the engine or battery earth lead, Then holding each with a gloved hand or a pair of pliers ask someone to switch on the engine when it is COLD> If the plug is OK, you will see it glow. Switch off and reinsert and try the next one.
WARNING : they get VERY hot - see precautions above.
I bought proper Peugeot ones: cheap alternatives are false economyimo: they have a very hard life.
Two had gone: I only replaced those: it is suggested you replace all 4 as a set but the orginal 2 left have now lasted 9 years..2 years after I replaced the first 2. (dealers say replace all 4 : I consider that equivalent to changing all eclectric bulbs when 1 breaks)
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Plugs just replaced with brand new though :(
relay stays on for 8 or so secs which seems about average....
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I have a Mondeo 1.8 TD which won't start in cold weather first thing in the morning using the key. However , I live at the top of a steep hill and it will bump start very easily indeed. So , I thought must be the battery. Bought a new Motorcraft battery. Still won't b***** well start with the key. Anybody got a remedy please ?
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I've still got similar prob, one tip recently was to check the primer plunger travel before starting. If there is any movement it might indicate that air is getting into system overnight (probably thru the filter bowl unit itself (a known fault apparently). I am trying this myself on the weekend, weather permitting...
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My Escort TD used to pick up around 2.5 to 3 thousand revs but not since I changed my air and fuel filters. It just accelerates slowly and just picks up slightly within the 'Turbo rev range' It's as if I have lost turbo pressure. I changed both filters again after putting up with this for a while. This has made no difference.
I notice that with the fuel filter there are two large rubber seals, one smaller one (about size of 2 pence piece) and two smaller ones as well (about the size of five pence piece). I could not find a home for the two smallest rubber ring seals and assumed they were for different models. Is this my problem, is the filter losing pressure as a result. It is not leaking at all. Help please..
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Spence,
Looking at the Haynes, it does stress (with regard to the CAV filter housing)that you should check that you have replaced all the seals, even to the extent of using torch and mirror!
Typically Haynes tho, it doesnt show the seal arrangements for the various models and does not say how many are involved...
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If the fuel filter wasn?t sealed wouldn?t I have trouble starting and with stalling because it is sucking in air??
I've had a suggestion that my diesel pump might not be delivering enough pressure, but that was a garage who also admitted it would probably cost more than the cars worth to fix. Apparently the pump is around £950 without fitting!!!! One from a scrap yard (if you could find one) would be around £400 with no guaranty!! Also I?ve been told the hose off my turbo could be leaking because when you take off the air filter casings the ?decaying? hoses can split. This is a potentially engine wrecking problem as water can be sucked in through this split. Who knows. I might just change the car and be done with it. It?s N Reg and cost me £160 to get through the last M.O.T. (new rear drums, shoes, cylinder and fluid renew).
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It could be that its not drawing in air, but not working as it should inside the filter unit. It seems unlikely to be actual pump pressure if things were ok before you changed the filters.
Air hoses are a possibilty, but thats something you can check fairly easily...
if you have missed/damaged a seal on the fuel filter, you might not necessarily be getting full delivery to the pump, (enough to start and run, but starving when you accelerate).
Any diesel mechanics online?
All the best......
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Hi SteveH and Spencer
On my Escort 1.8TD (L), I recently changed the Bosch (slanting) fuel pump with rubber primer on top, but then had substantial problems starting. My local friendly mechanic checked,replaced seals properly, and said that it was drawing in air from the two plastic pipes attached to pump, but fixed the problem.
The problem now, after several months, and in cold weather, the diesel engine wont start in mornings, and if it does, seems to stutter on two cylinders for a while.
I know what has been said here on this thread, but I have to ask this : in the mornings, when I check the rubber pump primer I can fully depress it until full (if you understand). Is this the way it should be after overnight standing, or should the rubber primer be full after overnight?
Thanks
R.A
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Hi R.A,
My recent experience on the CAV filter unit is that if I pump the primer (I get 2 full pump strokes) before I try to start it, it will fire up first time! (if its been standing overnight).
I checked it after an hour and could not depress the primer...
Which now convinces me that its the diaphram/filter mechanism (see above)which is knacked. It is actually mentioned at the top of this thread (some time ago), but I didnt read it properly..doh
Now the mission is to get a good one for less than 60 notes.....
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I've just checked my Escort TD and it has been standing for more than 7 hours. The primer could not be depressed at all and seemed to have healthy pressure. Try checking all fuel lines/seals and check for small leaks. Is your filter tight? Can you smell diesil when your driving with the heaters on? I had that and it was the 'deisel end stop leak'. It is a little rubber nipple on the last injector thingy from the pump side. There are rubber jumper pipes from injector to injector but obviously after the fourth injector there is that nipple. Look under the bonnet with the engine running (mind your long hair and/or ties) and rev it. Sometimes you can see spray from small pin hole sized leaks like what was in mine. I looked for this because I could smell diesel all the time but I could not see it when it was just ticking over. I was told to wait untill it was nearly dark and use a torch as any spray shows up better.
By the way I'm an electronic technician so I'm poo hot on electrics if any one needs some help.
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Spencer
You were spot on with the Escort TD - I have faint whiff of diesel from the heaters when driving, and will check as you said. My initial problem of vehicle not starting after overnight sleep seems to be cured by my fitting 4 X Bosch Gloplugs (total £40). Now car starts frist time and drives like a dream (fingers crossed).Seems years ago only two plugs changed by the looks of carbon deposits on plugs, so the other two possibly original, especially the last one where it was damn difficult to get at(having to dismantle this that and the other to get at plug). The new fuel filter rubber primer seems to be almost full after overnight sleep, but car starts first time every time in cold weather hovering on zero (fingers now crossed).
Thanks.
R.A
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Don't know if you've solved this yet.
I had this with my Mondeo TD.
The turbo was whistling it's head off, but no power at all.
It was like driving a bus, took ages to accelerate, and no
kick, when the turbo whistled.
I traced it to a split rubber pipe on the fuel pump !
if you look from the front of the car, at the side of the fuel
pump facing the radiator, there's a round unit about 2" dia.
(as I recall - this is from memory!)
There's a small rubber pipe on this which works its way
all the way round th front of the engine, under all the
air intake stuff and dissapears into the turbo, somewhere.
I believe that it's some kind of "pull-down" which increases
the fueling when the turbo reaches a certain pressure.
Not having any pipe that size, I just glued it up !! and Bingo,
it was like getting a new car !!
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Cheers for that. The symptoms you descride are identical to mine. The problem is there are many causes for the same symptoms. All of which I seem to have checked for except the one you describe. I shall check it in the morning.
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Steve
I'll need to get some advice as to where and how this is done.......I'm not very well up on diesel technology
thanks for your contribution
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Tony,
Read thread above - consensus would seem to be glowplugs. But also check whether air is getting into the system (probably via fuel filter housing on a Mondeo?)
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P.S.
Why is it that when I "reply to this message" my message always comes about two messages below? Do need to include the message I am answering?
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Phil
You don't need to include the message.
It's just that replies to each message are listed in chronological order, so it someone else has already replied your message will come after theirs.
That's why it's a good idea to include the name of the person you're replying to, so that the connection can be made in flat view.
HTH
Brian
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Phil
thanks for your comments. One further thing which has come to mind is that ( and this might seem odd ) my heater control ( to direct the air to dashboard / footwell etc. ) has ceased to work . I am told that this works from a vacuum system and is not electronic as I'd thought. Could it be that a hose has come off do you think ? If so where will it be ??
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Tony,
Sorry, can't help you on that!! Don't know Mondeos except that they use (used?) same fuel filter housing as some Citroens and they have proved prone to air leaks after a time. I also heard from a mechanic that they often have to replace them on Mondeos for that reason. They cost about £60 so it might be cheaper to test glowplugs first before spending that money.
No doubt plenty of other Mondeo owners will come to your aid!!
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Phil
thanks for replying . I'll let you know if I get to the bottom of my problem.
I am thinking about getting one of the new 130ps Mondeos but having trouble finding a used one at the right price.
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Hi,
I'm having trouble starting my Rover 115 now that the weather's turned cold so I've searched the net for ideas, one site suggested checking for air leakage into the fuel lines by applying grease to the joints. The idea being that grease will provide a temporary seal (at least until it dries out), using this method it is suggested that the fault could be traced by systematic greasing of the joints in the fuel line. For my car I think I'll check the glowplugs first.
Steve.
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with your rover 115 same as cit ax or pug 106. rubber bellows type hand primer pump mounted by battery. the ball bearing inside causes the pump to allow air into system overnight thus will not start without loads of cranking or foot on throttle.
my ax14d did same pumped primer before starting would start first time if not loads of cranking. do not buy from citreon or rover as very expensive. avalible pattern made by company called lancer products. bout £10. this also applies to all pug and cit diesels as have same type of primer pump.
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Thanks for the info, this could be next on the list. Today replaced glowplugs, one had completely gone (open circuit according to a multimeter) but all looked well worn. I tried priming the fuel system before starting first thing this morning but it didn't make any difference. We'll see how it likes it's new glowplugs. I think it's also time to look at recon injectors if the price is OK, the faulty plug had a very heavy carbon deposit (compared to the other plugs). I assume that this is a sign of a worn/faulty injector and probably why the glowplug failed.
Steve.
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I've just had a problem with an R reg diesel Mondeo.
One morning, it failed to start. There was some slight firing when the engine was turning over but not enough to keep the engine going under its own steam.
Changed the glo-plugs - no difference.
Bled the diesel line from the filter to the pump - no difference.
Thought it might be the fuel cut-off solenoid, but on this CAV
diesel pump, it seems to be hidden under a steel pressing.
Read about the fuel filter leak problems here, and having charged
the battery overnight, bled the diesel lines very carefully from the filter to the pump.
Tried starting the car three times, and it fired up on the third try.
I'll watch it carefully for the next few days, but I have a nasty feeling that it's the problem mentioned here, with air getting in through the filter housing, and it's 60 notes.
Thanks to all for providing the useful posts. I was on the verge of calling a garage out to deal with it.
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re the 'Conductor' above,
I've just called Lancer Products (01922 722012), they are going to send me an application sheet to see if they stock a diaphragm/filter body for the Mondeo, fingers crossed. If I get one for a tenner plus postage I will be well chuffed.
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No joy there, only for 96> models. part no. LDP006
Shame......
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Phil
have had new glow plugs fitted . It has done the trick ! It now starts instantly even when freezing cold. The heater switch does work off a vacuum system and the pipe had come off. This has been refitted and fuel consumption is now down slightly plus I now can use the heater system as it was designed. Warm feet at last !!
regards
Tony
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be careful doing this. because if you do not have a goood connection you can blow your 50A fuse (personal exp.)I had this problem on my wife's Peuoet 106 diesel. It is simple to test the glowplus with no equipment. Just remove them one by one and test each by earting each by a wire to the engine or battery earth lead, Then holding each with a gloved hand or a pair of pliers ask someone to switch on the engine when it is COLD> If the plug is OK, you will see it glow. Switch off and reinsert and try the next one. WARNING : they get VERY hot - see precautions above. I bought proper Peugeot ones: cheap alternatives are false economyimo: they have a very hard life. Two had gone: I only replaced those: it is suggested you replace all 4 as a set but the orginal 2 left have now lasted 9 years..2 years after I replaced the first 2. (dealers say replace all 4 : I consider that equivalent to changing all eclectric bulbs when 1 breaks)
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Hi,
Maybe the problem is solved now.
Many times there is bad connection at the "feedthrough-joint"
where the glowplug cables are connected on the underside.
If it gets hot you have the indication of a bad crimping made
of the manufactorer of the "joint".
You can temporary repair it by a cutting plastic to get to
the crimp and redo the crimping.
When remounting the two sides cables of the joint,hold one side by a plier so it does not rotate inside the joints plastic.
The glowcurrent stays on a bit longer than the indicatorlamp
is indicating.After a while current is reduced and disappears
completely after about 1 minute.Perhaps less time if the system
has no bad connections along the line of the current connection.
\Rolf
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