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Having just been home from university last eve, I was meandering through the roads and without realising found myself in excess of the 60mph limit, despite the twisting nature of the country roads...I believe my mk 1 Focus used to be doing 50-60mph on the route, yet the mk 2 is handling that bit faster - both journeys of comparison are on dry roads, at about 1am. I was wondering whether other people's experience of cross-country roads perhaps suggests that modern cars are more than capable of handling the "limit" and perhaps such a limit is a tad redundant in areas as desolate as these?
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but can you stop in time for the tractor around the next bend?
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Or an animal crossing the road? On the way from Stockport to Wakefield yesterday I took the scenic route. Approaching a bend at around 40mph (60mph limit but in no rush), as I was going around the corner a sheep stepped into the road and slowly walked across. Had I been doing the speed limit (dry roads and sunny) it would have been an emergency stop.
At night have been places where animals stepped into road (e.g. deer)... so I think we keep the limits as they are. Yes you can see oncoming cars earlier at night due to lights but what about other things in the road, even fallen trees... which reminds me of the poor Jag and Volvo at the Jag dealer round the corner (not stock either) where a large branch fell across them last week flattening them in the process.
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Or an animal crossing the road? On the way from Stockport to Wakefield yesterday I took the scenic route. Approaching a bend at around 40mph (60mph limit but in no rush) as I was going around the corner a sheep stepped into the road and slowly walked across. Had I been doing the speed limit (dry roads and sunny) it would have been an emergency stop.
Sometimes two-legged animals cross the road.
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Modern cars probably are more than capable of handling the speeds, but they're also getting a lot bigger (none more so than the Focus) and so the error of margin against oncoming traffic on narrow B roads is far less. Given an empty road you could definitely press on at a greater average speed in a modern car with far less effort than it would take in a 20 year old one.
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1 am on a twisting country road, travelling faster than you realise sounds like an accident looking for somewhere to happen...
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Its the usual story. Yes, cars are much better - they have improved greatly over the years. Unfortunately driver skill and road conditions haven't changed that much - in fact they have worsened in many cases.
Earlier this year there was some research published in a German motoring mag about the accident rates and fatality rates on different types of German roads. It turns out that rural roads are by far the most dangerous - many times more dangerous than Autobahns or urban roads. Not surprising really - the number of potential hazards is much greater and the 'escape options' can be very limited.
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Having lived in Norfolk and now in Devon, can sadly report that almost every week there is a report in the local press of a fatality on the local country roads. Often the car has left the road without any other vehicle being involved......
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My own take on this is that I drive at a speed where I can stop in the distance I can see to be clear.
Whether that's faster or slower than some arbitrary limit is neither here nor there. It might be physically possible for me to corner at say 90mph given a closed road but if I can't see far enough then it's out of the question. Largely because I don't have a deathwish. Night time driving is particularly hazardous, after all who is to say you won't encounter some unlit obstacle?- like another car having just crashed after driving too fast for the conditions.
Modern run of the mill cars are quite capable of taking bends at speeds which would have been the realm of sportscars not long ago. Doesn't mean they are any fun though does it?
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Doesn't mean they are any fun though does it?
They aren't that bad OH. Lower adhesion levels and unpredictable handling are entertaining in a way, but so is getting a move on in perfect safety.
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Oldhand: " My own take on this is that I drive at a speed where I can stop in the distance I can see to be clear"
Really? ALL the time? I'd find it surprising, not because I doubt your honesty, just that I suspect you may believe this to be true and not actually do it. I'd have said the same thing, but I simply don't believe that I do it, given an occasional near miss over the years.
V
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I'd have said the same thing but I simply don't believe that I do it given an occasional near miss over the years. V
I agree Vin. No one does it all the time. Life's too short.
What I notice though is that age and experience do make one a little more cautious in this area. I know a fast bend in a narrow country road through woodland that can easily be taken at 70 without using all the road, and that is what I used to do. But there's a blind exit on the inside of the middle of the bend. After a bit of thought I now find I ease off to 50 or so there. In fact I don't do 70 on that road any more. Perhaps I'm growing up, perhaps I'm past it. Who knows?
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I can't think of an occasion when I haven't and I make a conscious effort to do so. It's part of the system I was taught to use when driving.
Of course there is always the chance that I'm not estimating the speed/stopping distance correlation correctly.
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>>Perhaps I'm growing up, perhaps I'm past it.
Perhaps that's why your insurance premium reduces with age? :-)
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[driving within the distance that you know to be clear]>> I'd have said the same thing but I simply don't believe that I do it I agree Vin. No one does it all the time. Life's too short.
Doing anything else is stupid. Foolhardy, if you feel "stupid" to be too strong a word, which I personally do not. Life's too short, as you say - especially too short to make one's own, or someone else's, even shorter.
See:
The Highway Code
RoSPA
Police driving instruction
Safespeed
High Performance Club
Being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear is one of the very basic tenets of good driving.
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>>Often the car has left the road without any other vehicle being involved......
That's not to say some animal - a deer, perhaps - has not been involved....
Quite often, accident reports state that, "the vehicle went out of control" - as if the driver had nothing at all to do with it :-(
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modern cars are more than capable of handling the "limit" and perhaps such a limit is a tad redundant in areas as desolate as these?
Handling the limit is a part of it, I think they're also better at hiding where the limit is, which explains the higher speed.
As for what the limit should be, drive at whatever speed you're comfortable with for the conditions and take responsibility for it IMHO.
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without wanting to sound like a pompous old git every driver has a duty of responsibilty to every other road user be they driver, passenger, pedestrian or whatever. Your actions can affect other peoples lives for ever.
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No, normd2, I don't think you sound pompous at all. Well said.
It's one thing being crippled by a driver travelling too fast but 'accepting responsibility' for it - say, a 12-month driving ban and a six-month suspended prison sentence. Far better, IMHO, not to have the accident in the first place.....
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On the rural NSL road near us in the last week: 1. owl fell out of tree onto road (2pm - should have been tucked up) Car in front halted until it sorted itself out. Well done madam BMW driver. 2. Elderly cyclist walked machine across road just after a blind bend 3. Family of ducks walked across road, then ducklings ran back. Everybody patient: no damage done, but if this happened at what passes for rush hour - regrettable incidents would result. Like previous poster, I tend to keep down to 50 on this road as there can be too many "unexpected" events!
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