I cannot help thinking that Toyota seem to recall alot of models due to faults.
Is their quality haylo slipping a bit ? Or are they now worse than anyone else ?
www.whatcar.co.uk/news-article.aspx?NA=225708
{please do not post direct links to 'What Car' , ie, leave off the http part of the link - DD}
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It's possible that the airbags weren't designed or manufactured by Toyota, so perhaps they're to be congratulated for discovering the suspect build period and for taking the action that they have.
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L\'escargot.
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I agree that they are taking the correct action and credit to them, but I would like to think Toyota have some control over their supply chain.
At the end of the day the safety and quality of the car is down to Toyota and they should select their supply chain accordingly.
As it happens I am aware of the process Toyota use when selecting suppliers - I suppose my question is are standards slipping at the brand because I seem to recall alot of recalls from them lately.
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Surely it's better that they take the trouble to find out and take action, rather than leaving the customers to do their research and development for them, as some others do.
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I think people are maybe missing my point.
Yes it is better that they take action - but it is even better if it does not go wrong in the first place.
The post is not questioning whether Toyota are doing the right thing with the recall, it is questioning why they seem to conduct alot of recalls (If my memory serves me correctly).
Toyota make a big play on the effectiveness of their development and manufacturing systems in ensuring quality.
The 4th guding principle at Toyota is to create and develop advanced technologies and provide outstanding products that fufill the needs of customers.
My point is that I have noticed alot of recalls from them as a brand so presumably they are not getting it right in the first place anymore or providing outstanding products ?
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As I mentioned on another thread, do you think Toyota would issue a recall if Yaris bonnets started flying open by the hundred. My guess is yes.
I do think Toyota could improve their quality, but that goes for every brand out there as far as I can see. Cars are built to a price not to a given quality standard. If VW can cut corners to keep prices lower/profits higher than they would otherwise be, then Toyota are forced to do something similar.
There is a danger here for every other manufacturer though - Toyota are already talking about quality improvement and they probably have the money and experience to blow everyone else out of the water in this regard, should they choose to make the necessary investment.
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As I mentioned on another thread do you think Toyota would issue a recall if Yaris bonnets started flying open by the hundred. My guess is yes.
A dig at Renault, it is certainly not hundreds BTW.
On the subjct of Clios and Toyotas we have a friend that has a 2000 Yaris, all sorts of problems, where as our similar age/mileage Clio has been brilliant.
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A dig at Renault it is certainly not hundreds BTW.
Certainly not a dig, as I was understating what I have read. What Car July 07 has an article quoting a VOSA report on the Clio bonnet issue - according to that article "more than 1000 UK owners of 2nd gen Clios have experienced the bonnet opening while driving".
My point is not whether or not this problem could occur at Toyota (or any other maker); it could, but my belief is that a recall would be issued.
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As I mentioned on another thread do you think Toyota would issue a recall if Yaris bonnets started flying open by the hundred. My guess is yes.
Just remined myself, the manufacturer does not issue the recall, VOSA does, re the Clio II, VOSA have not issued a recall and Renault have offered to inspect FOC.
CSFTTT!
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Just remined myself the manufacturer does not issue the recall VOSA does re the Clio II VOSA have not issued a recall and Renault have offered to inspect FOC. CSFTTT!
Fair enough, I thought there were two types of recall - manufacturer issued and VOSA issued. On that basis, I have applauded, incorrectly it seems, Toyota's openness in issuing recalls.
VOSA's opinion on the Clio bonnet was that it is "an unexpected defect with catastrophic results". A safety defect would be "a feature of design or construction liable to cause a significant risk of personal injury or death".
CSFTTT - - I will have to look that up!
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VOSA's opinion on the Clio bonnet was that it is "an unexpected defect with catastrophic results". >>
Not according to the letter we received re the free inspection.
CSFTTT - - I will have to look that up!
Cant Say Fairer That That Then!
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VOSA can issue recalls for safety-related issues and can use legal powers to force the manufacturer to cooperate.
Manufacturers can also indpendently issue their own recalls where there is a widespread problem - it does not have to be safety-related. Manufacturers may also carry out rectification work when a car is serviced (e.g. there is one manufacturer at the moment remapping recent engine ECU's to improve throttle response - they have not publicised it, but they are doing it at service and I guess the customer may or may not be told). Dealers are informed via regular TSB's and sometimes they also write to the customer.
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Oh well - it was supposed to be a posting about Toyota quality control (not that quality control is a term used very ofetn today as we have built in quality and autonomation in modern factories) but ended up being a post on VOSA and recalls.
Does that happen often on this site by any chance ?
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Does that happen often on this site by any chance ?
Yes, though as with any discussion it takes its own course.
Re Toyota quality, I wioder if they are where VW were six or seven years ago where the actual quality was not as good as the percived quality so customers expectations were not met and their reputation dipped.
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Thanks cheddar - I did feel a little flippant when I posted - I suppose it is natural that some posts will take a different direction when the OP actually covered 2 possible subjects as in this one - quality & recalls.
I think Toyota still believe that high quality and customer satisfaction are the key to profitability where as VW thought (6 - 7 years ago) that cost cutting was the key to profitability.
I just think that standards seem to be slipping and they need to re-focus on improving quality.
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Having owned a Toyota for years (but not since early 2006), I tend to agree.
In the past it was often said they "overengineered" their cars and having worked on them I see
that they used far more corrosion resistant and solid fixings than other manufacturers.
However I get the impression that the accountants have more of a say in the development of the cars nowdays (they are not unique if this is the case). I expect when they see any downturn in sales, then the engineers may get more of a free reign. My experience of their customer service leads me to believe it is a little variable, but at least they ask you for feedback every visit via a satisfaction questionnaire. To be fair to Toyota, I think all manufacturers are now struggling to get a good balance between quality/reliability, complexity and price/sales. Back in the early 1990's I am sure Toyotas were more expensive (correcting for inflation and relative to other manufacturers).
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I just think that standards seem to be slipping and they need to re-focus on improving quality.
I think their standards slipped a long time ago compared with what they once were. My Dad had a very early (1998) Mk 1 Avensis from 6 months old - within 18 months it required a new steering rack and front subframe due to design/manufacturing defects. Also, a couple of bits of rubber trim were starting to come adrift - may sound minor but such a thing would have been completely unheard of in Toyota's build quality heyday. He replaced it with a brand new Corolla in 2001, part of the dash near the gearstick fell off on day one, and it needed new alloys within 18 months due to corrosion. So poor build quality is hardly a new thing for Toyota.
My own Avensis still feels good after 8mths/14k miles (as it should!) and seems to me to be better built than that Mk1 Avensis felt at a similar age.
(Of course, mechanically Toyota's are pretty good - I know a cabbie who had two petrol Mk1 Avensis that had reached almost 300k on their original clutches, gearboxes and engines).
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Parkers have recently pooled data from Fleetnews FN50, Which?, JD Power and their own surveys to produce an 'aggregate' reliability index. Unsurprisingly the 'usual suspects' are all there in the Top 20.
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Unsurprisingly the 'usual suspects' are all there in the
Including Corsa and Focus to name but two.
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Yes, the Focus is doing very well these days and earning Ford a good reputation across Europe I think - quite a turnaround. The Corsa is more of a surprise, but credit where its due.
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