I can think of a way better place for parking attendants to have their cameras, but the light levels might be a bit low for successful results.
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I can think of a way better place for parking attendants to have their cameras but the light levels might be a bit low for successful results.
:^D
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Sepia toned?
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Article in today's Daily Mail on this subject
tinyurl.com/2xhapc
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I'm in favour of anything which helps to fight lawlessness.
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L\'escargot.
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I am NOT in favour of any system of parking regulation or enforcement which is based on targets ie ticket 100 cars and clamp 20 in an 8 hour shift, as now required by NCP in places where they hold the money making franchise for parking control!
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I am NOT in favour of any system of parking regulation or enforcement which is based on targets .........
I recently questioned a council traffic warden on this very topic and she assured me that she had no targets whatsoever to meet.
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L\'escargot.
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Exactly Mollusc person. You spoke to a council employee! The targets are set by the civilian firms who have taken over parking enforcement and have to make money out of it for their employer (NCP in some cases) If nobody is illegally parked no tickets can be issued or cars clamped. Those that are can be - but setting fixed numerical targets is a nonsense. If nobody is illegally parked nobody can be ticketd or clamped and no illegal parking is the alleged aim of the procdure BUT as it appears to be based on penalties issued and NOT enforcing parking rules it isn't a money maker if everybody obeys the parking rules = Bad news for NCP
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The targets are set by the civilian firms who have taken over parking enforcement and have to make money out of it for their employer (NCP in some cases)
In that case it rather looks as if I don't go into these areas that have non-council traffic wardens.
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L\'escargot.
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Exactly Mollusc person. You spoke to a council employee! The targets are set by the civilian firms who have taken over parking enforcement and have to make money out of it for their employer (NCP in some cases)
So really you're just talking about parking on non-council property. I would have thought the majority of parking tickets were issued on public (council-controlled) roads.
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L\'escargot.
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I'm in favour of anything which helps to fight lawlessness.
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Forgive me escargot, but I find it hard to see parking in the wrong place or for too long as 'lawlessness'. Parking regulations may have the backing of the law, but they aren't 'laws' in any serious sense. They are rules made up by councils and the like, who aren't always very bright and who aren't always well-intentioned towards the motorist.
Sticking a mini-camera behind Lovely Rita's ear like a fag-end she's keeping for later is throwing money at what isn't even a problem. And making Rita look a berk.
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Traffic wardens with cameras on heads
Ahh, so that's what I saw protruding out of his forehead. :)
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Forgive me escargot but I find it hard to see parking in the wrong place or for too long as 'lawlessness'. Parking regulations may have the backing of the law but they aren't 'laws' in any serious sense.
It's all part and parcel of knowing where to draw the line as to what is right and what is wrong. The more rules that are scorned, the lower will be the general morality of the population. I was brought to believe that dropping sweet wrappers was wrong, cycling on the pavement was wrong, being drunk and disorderly was wrong. Nowadays these seem to be considered to be totally acceptable. The lower limit now seems to be murder and child-molesting.
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L\'escargot.
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I think you'll find reality is more hopeful, they are receiving fixed penalty powers for littering and dog fouling in some areas so used as evidence gathering tools. Probably some anti-assault measuring as well.
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Escargot, I'm very sorry but untidy parking has nothing to do with right and wrong. You would do well to question the plethora of rules, regulations and new laws that cause people either deliberately or out of understandable confusion to scorn or anyway ignore them.
I agree with you totally about sweet wrappers, pavement cycling and d&d (although people can be forgiven the last if it occurs only rarely and before the age of 30).
Taking money off people for parking is bad enough, although there may be some justification. But taking a lot of money off them for making a mistake or having a problem that keeps them away from their car for too long is just robbery. And so, by the way, is trying to extract 50 or 100 quid from someone who's put a wheel in a bus lane while negotiating an obstruction (and I don't mean people who drive down the bus lane to get ahead or who park in it causing an obstruction). All of these things happen incessantly. And it seems to me that if right and wrong come into it at all, they are exactly the other way round from the way you seem to think.
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All of these things happen incessantly. And it seems to me thatif right and wrong come into it at all they are exactly the other way round from the way you seem to think.
Good man. Go get him Tiger.
VBR.............MD.
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The cameras are to replace the brains which the average traffic warden lacks....:-)
In fact you only need to have the minimum level of intelligence to become a traffic warden.
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Nothing against Lovely Rita herself. Or Mr thing from West Africa. It's a job you can get. They take a lot of flak. They are working. The system isn't of their making. They are under pressure to operate it.
No, we don't like wasps or bluebottles. But one shouldn't personalise it too much.
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>>They are working. The system isn't of their making. They are under pressure to operate it..>>
Hence the lack of common sense in many instances and the earlier comment that they have just sufficient intelligence to do the job in the first place.
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I agree with L'escargot's view that the 'threshold' of crime has been raised. We started off, somewhat before my time, with 10 commandments on tablets of stone. I wouldn't care to guess how many laws, rules and regulations we are now subject to but it must be tens of thousands. In my view the problem is that there are way too many of them and, instead of applying existing ones firmly, there is a rush to create new ones for what are seen to be new crimes. No law is effective unless it is applied and seen to be applied and the more there are the fewer are enforced.
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Escargot I'm very sorry but untidy parking has nothing to do with right and wrong.
Untidy parking is one thing. Parking contrary to the rules is a different matter entirely. It sounds as if you are advocating anarchy.
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L\'escargot.
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It sounds as if you are advocating anarchy. --
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Perhaps it does, but I don't think I am. People can and very often do park perfectly legally in ways that are selfish, inconsiderate and stupid. There is no arrangement for preventing this.
When they park slightly illegally in ways that are none of these things it gets up my nose that they should suffer for it.
I don't think we should treat parking regulations as if they were the ten commandments (cited above by Armitage Shanks). And I don't think the parking authorities should treat us as cash-rich victims to be mugged when the chance arises. I think actually that is closer to advocating anarchy than what I have said.
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But taking a lot of money off them for making a mistake or having a problem that keeps them away from their car for too long is just robbery.
Absolutely. One of the most unpleasant aspects of regulations of this kind is that mistakes or unforeseen circumstances are apparently to be severely punished, with no question of any extenuating circumstances even being considered, or any degree of proportionality (or common sense) being applied.
I have previously recounted how my TomTom directed me into a bus lane in Oxford. On that occasion I was trying to find Mrs B in an unfamiliar city centre (having arranged to meet her at a particular time), and was focusing my attention (correctly in my view) on the large number of pedestrians milling around on the pavement and spilling into the road in front of me, and ended up being misdirected into the bus lane by inaccurate sat-nav directions, compounded by inadequate signposting.
In short, I made a mistake. I'm human; I'm fallible; it happens. I didn't mean to go into the bus lane, and indeed, I took steps to get out of it as quickly as I could (which was far from easy, as every possible escape route seemed to have some other sort of prohibition attached to it). Fortunately I didn't receive a fine for this; but if I had, would it have been fair? I would say not.
The problem is that this engenders resentment among the public at large, and may in some ways lead to greater lawlessness elsewhere. Certainly people who have been on the receiving end of this sort of thing are likely to feel less inclined to respect or assist authority in other situations.
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>>In fact you only need to have the minimum level of intelligence to become a traffic warden.
I heard of someone who failed the application for the job!
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I support these cameras - the Council I work for buys DNA swab tests so that traffic wardens who are spat at can try and pursue the offender in court.
This happens on a daily basis, and I don't think people realise what they have to put up with. In my short experience, getting in a car tends to make people think they're invulnerable from the law, and take strong exception when they're caught out breaking it. How many times has someone cut you up, but then react aggresively when you point out their mistake? It's just the same with parking.
I don't think many poeple on here works in a job where they can be verbally and physically insulted like this, and it almost to be socially acceptable. And if they did, they would want their employer to take all reasonable steps to prevent it or bring the offender to justice.
OK, it's easy to blame parking wardens for the system, and no-one likes getting a fine, but as the article says this should actually help the facts be presented should a driver wish to appeal a PCN they think unfair. And whislt there is the odd wheel out of a parking bay, the majority of tickets I see are on cars parked illegally or in disabled spaces etc. The time limited spaces are there for a reason too (often to encourage use of local shops and ammenities instead of all day commuters).
The cost of the equipment will no doubt be covered by income raised from fines such as ASB, littering and fowling (all of which is good news for residents) and the fact evidence will probably help parking decisions be upheld on appeal.
To prove I'm not a Council stooge, I do admit there is an inherant contradiction with council's trying to increase parking compliance, but still financially relying on parking income to help provide transport services.
I'm not sure of the solution, but I'm sure it won't be council tax payers being willing to pay higher llocal/national taxes so that parking fines can be reduced for those motorists who chose to park illegally.
That chap in the Mail article wants people to be able to get on with their own business without being continually harrassed?
"Business" as in breaking the law and abusing public servants when they try and tackle them?
He really, really should try being a parking warden for a few days if he wants to know the meaning of the word harrassed.
And regarding the comments about the ethnicity of wardens, it's most likely that British citizens aren't willing to work at the low wages offered. Again, would the public pay more tax so that more educated wardens could be recruited on higher pay?
er, no.
I'm not a Council stooge, but there's 2 sides to every story, and I think it is important that there is some balance on here (unlike the Daily Mail of course).
Ian
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