From AOL's newspage:
Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson has been rapped by the media watchdog for describing a car as "a bit ginger beer'' - Cockney rhyming slang for "queer''.
Ofcom said there was "no justification'' for the comment. Clarkson was discussing a Daihatsu Copen during an episode of the BBC show last year.
He referred to it as "a bit gay,'' adding: "It's a bit ginger beer.''
Ofcom said use of the word "gay'' was not necessarily offensive. It referred to the Oxford English Dictionary definition of "gay'' as "foolish, stupid and occasionally inappropriate, disapproved of and lame''.
But the watchdog said: "In this edition of Top Gear, the presenter's use of a Cockney rhyming phrase made clear he intended to give a particular meaning to use of the word 'gay'... ie, not to restrict its meaning simply to foolish or stupid, but clearly linking the reference to homosexual people.
"This, in Ofcom's opinion, meant that the use of the word became capable of giving offence. In the context, there was no justification for using the word in this way.''
Ofcom said the complaint had been resolved because the BBC had already warned the production team and producers not to repeat the offence.
The BBC's own investigation upheld complaints about Clarkson's use of the word "gay'' during the episode screened in July last year.
{Subject header renamed - see further down - DD}
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Anything with blue LED's showing.
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I would have said anything with
power steering
rear disc brakes
power assisted brakes
power windows
automatic
air con
leather seats(ugh)
coloured seat belts
silly coloured interior( not black)
silly colour outside( not red)
poser number plate
furry dice/nodding dog
sound system( other than a basic radio)
no piles of junk in boot
not covered in road muck
but I find it is hard to avoid some of the above, so will have to say
anything but a Land Rover built before about 1970?
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What's wrong with leather seats? Seems to make sense apart from that.
What you don't seem to realise is that almost everything was made of leather until about 1955.
And really excellent it was.
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Oh, and 'piles of junk in the boot'.
What are you, houseproud or something?
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'Covered in road muck'
Good God.
You are obsessive and anal.
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Ofcom said there was "no justification'' for the comment. "This, in Ofcom's opinion, meant that the use of the word became capable of giving offence. In the context, there was no justification for using the word in this way.''
Which pretty well sums things up with this thread as well - locked. DD.
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Right,
I've now re-opened this thread and changed the subject header title BUT bear in mind the following:-
1. No degrading comments towards gay people - intentional or unintentional.
2. No discussions on what cars you consider "gay". That was done to death in a recent 207cc thread that required moderating.
Any of the above will be removed and the thread re-locked.
DD.
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Thanks DD. I can now admit that I had misunderstood two of TurboD's categories, having somehow failed to see their negative configuration.
Still don't get the leather seats one though.
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It referred to the Oxford English Dictionary definition of "gay'' as "foolish stupid and occasionally inappropriate disapproved of and lame''.
For many decades I understood (and it's confirmed by my dictionary) that gay meant "full of mirth; light-hearted; lively; cheerful; merry; given to pleasure; showy; brilliant in appearance; finely dressed."
Now that the homosexual community have highjacked the word "gay", what word can I use to describe full of mirth etc.?
--
L\'escargot.
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Lively, cheerful or merry perhaps?
In the 18th and 19th centuries the word had various slang meanings in the same area, including I believe membership of the underworld milieu... Not homosexual as such I think, but female prostitutes or courtesans were at one time called 'gay'.
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Can we still use the word 'hairdresser' safely as in Mazda MX5 or Triumph Stag?
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No coiffeurphobia on this site, please! Let's just say that most Mercedes drophead two-seaters look as if they ought to have a yorkshire terrier on the passenger seat, with a pink bow in its fur.
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Where's BBD when you need him?
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Now that the homosexual community have highjacked the word "gay"
Not sure that's quite how it worked... did they hijack it, or was it forced upon them?
As for the original question. I'm not sure about this at all. The slang directly correlates to the word 'queer'. Clearly he was using it to describe the car as effeminate. The question is: Does that necessarily mean it is derogatory towards gay people? Is the term queer automatically derogatory? I believe it is a term that homosexual men now use of themselves in some cases, but then the same is true of some black people and the 'N word', and I believe that is most certainly automatically derogatory.
Had he called it a woman's car would the same outrage have been caused? Because the meaning would surely be the same.
Personally, I would have not used the term for fear of causing offence, but I'm not so sure that offence should really be taken from it - it's just that it can't hurt to avoid possible over-sensitivities.
To re-cap: I have no idea!
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Bazza is right about queer and the n word in another context. One could add the Y word with Jews. All of these terms are freely used by members of the groups concerned, or some of them, but if you use the word in their presence as an outsider you had better know what you are doing, or a scolding may result...
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>>Is the term queer automatically derogatory? I believe it is a term that homosexual men now use of themselves in some cases<<
One of the larger bars in Manchester's gay village is called Queer which might indicate that it has been appropriated by the gay community.
I think OFCOM have got it wrong - a section of society that willingly defines itself by its sexual orientation as a means to rebut discrimination can hardly complain. That would be hypocrisy and when the comments of sexual orientation are about an inanimate object then you can add a layer of nonsense that OFCOM seems unable to understand.
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One of the larger bars in Manchester's gay village is called Queer which might indicate that it has been appropriated by the gay community.
I have a few friends who are gay, and they don't take any offence to the word "queer" - in fact they use it openly to describe themselves! It's the cruder phrases that they find offensive, but we won't get into that on this thread. I doubt anyone other than some over-zealous promoter of political correctness actually found Clarkson's comments offensive. It's the same with all "offensive" words - it's never their intended subject who takes offence!
I actually quite like the Copen - sort of a modern-day MG Midget, but quicker. And i'm not "ginger beer" in the least!
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Now that the homosexual community have highjacked the word "gay" what word can I use to describe full of mirth etc.?
What bothers me more is the OED's definition of a slang term ("gay" = "stupid") with another slang term ("lame" having a similar meaning to this version of "gay".
What is the world coming to when the standard reference guide to the English language is as slapdash as this?
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Interesting.
On the understanding that Clarkson was speaking about the sort of person who would choose to drive a Daihatsu Copen (as opposed to meaning that Copens are attracted to each other!), I wondered about how OFCOM would see it if a particular vehicle was described as say the sort of car a black person would drive, or the sort of car a white person would drive. Or what about "a woman's car"? Somehow I can't see howls of outrage if a Toyota Hilux was descibed as a man's car. But then again, if it was a woman who described it thus, would it be seen as being sexist and hence offensive to men?
The other thing that intrigues me is that in comedy - and what is Clarkson, if not a funny man? - being offensive is considered par for the course. The BBC routinely broadcasts matter that some people would find offensive. Indeed it broadcasts matter that a whole class of people might find offensive (e.g. Jerry Springer the Opera). But it doesn't usually mean that anyone gets reprimanded.
Odd decision
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I would like to complain to someone about the dross that is frequently transmitted into my lounge by all transmitters of dross. The list is endless, at least Germy provokes discussion, and the whinging about the use of the term ginger beer is laughable. Nero fiddling etc.
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I wondered about how OFCOM would see it if a particular vehicle was described as say the sort of car a black person would drive or the sort of car a white person would drive. Or what about "a woman's car"? Somehow I can't see howls of outrage if a Toyota Hilux was descibed as a man's car. But then again if it was a woman who described it thus would it be seen as being sexist and hence offensive to men?<<
I seem to recall they touched on the 'black mans car' issue when they featured the Cadillac 4x4 - how many complaints were there then? You could have perceived the way they presented the typical buyer as offensive if you really wanted to.
Should I be offended when they describe a Volvo as the perfect car for middle england - ie middle class white folk like myself - its getting offended for the sake of it surely?
The other thing that intrigues me is that in comedy - and what is Clarkson if not a funny man? - being offensive is considered par for the course. The BBC routinely broadcasts matter that some people would find offensive. Indeed it broadcasts matter that a whole class of people might find offensive (e.g. Jerry Springer the Opera). But it doesn't usually mean that anyone gets reprimanded. Odd decision
Watching Harry Enfield last night. with his impressions of Mandella as a drug dealer, one must wonder - I found that far more tasteless than anything Clarkson has ever said.
Sure, he should have known very well that it was likely to get someones back up somewhere, but it was hardly a slant on someones lifestyle.
Since they take the mickey outta Hamster about his height, should I as a shorter person call and complain, or should I laugh along like any other sane human being who doesnt have too much time on his hands.
I have several gay friends and one of told me that more often than not, cars described as gay are indeed very popular with gay men ( and often middle aged women at the same time apparently ) and the people complaining are the sort who will always complain about something - 5 people I think it was in this case?
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Now that the PC police have decided that to be anything but heterosexual is wrong its probably time to forget any kind of popular humour.
A posssible alternative would need to be very ambiguous; how about a hairdressers car...my wifes 'stylist' has just bought himself a Micra in a very fetching pea green, goes with his ear rings bery well.
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FWIW, a gay guy said to me that something as 'camp' or 'gay' can be a compliment. An MX5 has a different image from a 911.
I didn't see the show in question, but it seems to be a statement about the image of the car rather than an insult.
I.e. 'Judy Garland is a gay icon' - not an insult, a statement of fact
vs. 'that ringtone is really gay' - (per Chris Moyles, who used the term to mean 'rubbish') - insulting equation of gay with bad or inferior
AFAICT, he was using it in the same way he might say "The VW Beetle is a girly car", and not simply as a synonym for 'rubbish car'.
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JC does it for effect. This thread is evidence that that effect has happened. He has a very last century sense of humour. As I have said before I valued and sought his opinion when he was a journo for Performance Car, he is now become a caricature of himself, he makes money out it and I don't blame him. Summed up when he's good he's brilliant but when he's bad he's awful.
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JC does it for effect. This thread is evidence that that effect has happened. He has a very last century sense of humour.
i've got a last century sense of humour as well.........and the funny thing is, when you get people away from their workplace......seemingly most other people do as well
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So did Benny Hill Westpig.......
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So did Benny Hill Westpig.......
yes....and Benny Hill was very funny, revered around the world....but, looked down upon eventually by 'those in the know' in this country, because of the creeping political correctness that has now overtaken everything we do
i can remember watching him as a kid, whilst staying with my grand parents and you couldn't get much more puritanical than grandma...tee-total, god fearing etc.......and she thought he was hilarious
on the Welsh matter above, i was a tad annoyed at the automatic presumption that my viewpoint made me racist and/or Colonel Blimp abroad........so i ran it past a mate at work who's Welsh.. he burst out laughing, called me a "Miserable English Git", then said "fair enough you have a point, but hey ho as it benefits the Welsh i'm all for it".....not a scientific study i'll admit, but made me feel better
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Westpig, I may have inadvertently offended you and if I did I am sorry! I wasn't accusing you of racism!!
I think I may just have much the same opinion as your Welsh workmate, but without the excuse of being Welsh! : ) The "Two Beers Pedro" comment was just me thinking about all the types you meet on holiday who wish Skegness was hotter so they didn't have to leave the UK!! Not a comment about anyone in particular.
So, apologies from one miserable English(ish) git to another!
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I wasn't having a pop at you over that Welsh issue. But the "well they all speak English don't they" can wear thin on individuals who are genuinely concerned about the survival of a language
Pax ?
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I wasn't having a pop at you over that Welsh issue. But the "well they all speak English don't they" can wear thin on individuals who are genuinely concerned about the survival of a language Pax ?
Stevied and PU,
Thankyou for your conciliatory responses. I suspect i was quick to rise to this, due to years worth of this sort of thing from work, which I and others find extremely frustrating and in effect a restriction on freedom of speech. If people need to be educated and that would include me, how will it happen if you're not comfortable discussing it? Interesting bit about the survival of a language and why some people can be sensitive about it. My sensitive bit is not being able to stick up for English matters when the other 3 areas seemingly have carte blanche, but maybe sometimes i need to 'wind my neck in'..........0-)
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Surely the thing about rhyming slang is that it leaves the listener to do his own interpretation. I wasn't familiar with the ginger beer reference (and it wouldn't have offended me if I was) but the point is that Clarkson's words were not themselves offensive, and any charge would be very hard to prove.
I would call OFCOM a load of berks, which they will find extremely rude when they've looked it up...
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"Watching Harry Enfield last night. with his impressions of Mandella as a drug dealer, one must wonder - I found that far more tasteless than anything Clarkson has ever said."
I think the idea is that Mandela is the paragon of virtue, whiter than white (hohum), and hence "Mandela as drug dealer" is taking the mickey out of his saintly image. Sorry to be boring.
15 years ago I shared a house with some Africans. They would address each other as "Yo n*****". When a group describes themselves with an offensive word, the word loses its power. Just look at how many slang words were considered very rude 20 years ago, but I now hear them on R4 in the day time. "The Dog's [censored]" is one such example. Sorry to be boring. Again.
Anyway, whatever happened to Ginger Beer? And Dandelion and Burdock? (Burdock is a magnificant weed.)
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"Watching Harry Enfield last night. with his impressions of Mandella as a drug dealer one must wonder - I found that far more tasteless than anything Clarkson has ever said." I think the idea is that Mandela is the paragon of virtue whiter than white (hohum) and hence "Mandela as drug dealer" is taking the mickey out of his saintly image. Sorry to be boring.
And calling a car thats not considered masculine a bit queer is taking the mickey out of the perceived femininity of gay men, however misguided it may be.
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We're going round in circles.
Clarkson got in trouble with pofaces for a bit of rudy crudy.
Some people think it's honest fun, some find it offensive.
End of story.
All else is dancing round the smouldering embers of what let's face it was hardly a bonfire to start with.
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Since Jeremy Clarkson wasn't referring to a particular person, what does it matter? Who would be offended by it? I sooner listen to Clarkson's innuendos than the blatant (and totally unneccessary) foul language that you get on some programmes. I can't imagine Daihatsu being particular pleased about it, but I'm sure they would be quite capable of not letting it get under their corporate skin.
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L\'escargot.
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"I sooner listen to Clarkson's innuendos than the blatant (and totally unneccessary) foul language that you get on some programmes"
Indeed. I'm no great fan of JC, but if people are bothered by his oblique comments, how can they stand Gordon Ramsay?
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Bearing in mind that the lifestyle and sexual proclivties of this particular group of people are now encouraged, are legal and observed in TV programmes (Presenter and/or content), are taught in schools as part of sex education I can't see that comment or observation on them can be upsetting, any more than remarks about people with hairy nostrils or big stomachs would be. My personal view is irrelevant and inexpressible but it is now legal, normal and here to stay and thus liable to much comment with no action called for from Watchdogs, with or without teeth!
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it is now legal normal and here to stay
I'm just a bit concerned that one day it might be made compulsory!
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L\'escargot.
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>I'm just a bit concerned that one day it might be made compulsory!
If you mean mating with an individual with the same reproductive organs as your own, Escargot, then the gastropods are leading the way.
};---)
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If you mean mating with an individual with the same reproductive organs as your own Escargot then the gastropods are leading the way. };---)
You hit the (s)nail on the head!
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L\'escargot.
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Hmm, most people have already said everything that I think is relevant but as one of the resident gays I feel it only right that I make at least one meaningless post :-)
Bazza - as far as I know you are right, I don't think the gay community actually stole the word "gay", I do believe it was forced upon the community which chose to adopt it rather than allow it to be used as an insult. I don't think any particular word is capable of offending most gay people, in my experience it's all down to how it's said, the tone of voice tells you more about what the speaker means than what they actually say...
I would also agree with whoever said that it's more than likely an over-zealous PC champion who made any complaints, I don't know of a single gay person (myself included) who would dream of taking offence if he called a car a little bit gay, especially not if he used the "ginger beer" euphamism. A lot of people now seem to take it upon themselves to be offended on behalf of another group of people who more often than not aren't even bothered.
Blue
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So if a cupen is gay, and a landcruiser is masculine, whats all the rest? "bi" cars?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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No, just confused!
At least this thread has helped me discover the real me - every time I hear a trailer for a programme described as 'new comedy' on the BBC it appears dismally unfunny, and even my cars are 'very last century'...
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"A lot of people now seem to take it upon themselves to be offended on behalf of another group of people who more often than not aren't even bothered."
An excellent point and so true of many other issues as well, not just the subject of this thread.
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I thought berks was short for Berkshire :)
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Pure white middle class guilt, I should imagine, and the complaints will have been white, middle class, middle aged and straight, who were worried that they might have offended non-(white, middle class, middle aged and straight) people.
So a youngsters car? A midlifecrisis car?
I was recently at a meeting where there was an extraordinary amount of navel gazing and guilt as to why an Anglican cathedral attracted predominantly white middle class professionals, and what could be done to attract other sectors of society. Upon my asking whether they imagined that black pentecostal churches were having an equivalent meeting to work out how to attract the white middle classes, needless to say everybody laughed. Many people came to me afterwards to agree, but nobody spoke up at the time... and the comment was stamped on from on high as irrelevant.
The rich tapestry of our society would disappear (is disappearing/has already disappeared?) if everything and everybody tried to be all things to all people. I'm a certain that my queer friends would not be offended by his comments; they'd probably have laughed. In fact, if they were watching, they were probably describing it as a queeny (sic) car even before he did.
It brings a whole new level of meaning to a bent car...
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Does anyone know what Pajero is slang for in Spanish then? I bet Mitsubishi didn't when they named the car
type "definition: pajero" into google and the answer will be revealed
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Does anyone know what Pajero is slang for in Spanish then? I bet Mitsubishi didn't when they named the car type "definition: pajero" into google and the answer will be revealed
LOL!!! :-)
That's even better than Vauxhall calling their small car the Nova back in the day, I'm sure that it means "doesn't go" or something like that in Spanish.
Blue
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That's even better than Vauxhall calling their small car the Nova back in the day I'm sure that it means "doesn't go" or something like that in Spanish.
The one that always amused me was the meaning of Skoda -- "damage(d)" -- in Czech
Well that was a masterstroke wasn't it?
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