£200 pollution charge per day for older lorries, buses & coaches
The LEZ has been earmarked for launch next year and will be extended to vans and buses by 2010, in effect giving businesses two years' notice to overhaul their fleets.
White van man escapes for now!
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6638563.stm
www.24dash.com/environment/20342.htm
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this lez has been on the cards for a while now maybe 2 years since i first read a vosa piece on it
ok pollution is a bard thing
however
it is getting harder and harder to run a haulsage company in this country thats why fleets are being registered abroad
at the end of the day it will probably cost businesses that will have to pay more in the bigger picture to have goods delivered/passed on to consumers not just tourists either
another tax i see it as,not an answer but when was congestion charging not a tax anyway
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but the cost will be passed down to US the consumer in the end as usual, its just another form of indirect taxation just like everything else, i used to think ken was a voice of the people how nieve i once was!!!!!!
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Good idea Ken!
Keep the lorries etc out of the city !
Erm, but how do the shops get the stuff to sell to the people ?
Oh, re think needed?
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Surely it is more environmentally damaging in the long run to force the building of hundreds of new vehicles than it is to let the one ones keep running?
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I can't wait for a grown-up, non-car-hating mayor, but I can't haelp thinking there's a point being missed here.
It does seem to me utterly dumb for damn great articulated trucks to be coming into central London just because Sainsbury's, Tesco et al have them.
These organizations can well afford to have big out-of-town depots where the goods are put into smaller, brisker, less obstructive vehicles for delivery to the point of sale.
Special permission should be required to bring anything over 5 tons into most central areas. That would be rational.
Nothing to do with smoke or particulates of course. Just that the big ones, well driven though they are, get in the damn way.
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Of course there's no hope at present. Anything that gets in the way is good in hizonner's crooked little colour-by-numbers book.
Look at all the traffic calming and pedestrian-friendly building work done at vast expense to us since the little twerp got elected (by my vote among others)...
I think I'm going to have a fit.
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Its not just the supermarkets tho is it?
Every shop in the city needs stock; clothes, food, etc etc etc etc.
You want the tourists/customers/people then they have to be provided for. No alternative mehod of supply other than the big lorries etc.
Imo, if they levy the charges the businesses should just stop going into the zone. The economy would collapse overnight and bring pressure (and sense?) to bear immediatley!
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You want the tourists/customers/people then they have to be provided for. No alternative mehod of supply other than the big lorries etc.
Yes there is. Smaller lorries. Perhaps required by law to deliver at night otherwise.
It wouldn't cost that much more either. And it would provide more work for drivers.
Be a bit creative here. Capitalism isn't a one-note tune you know.
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Yes, ridiculously large artics driving through totally unsuitable urban streets to deliver to the big supermarket chains is one of my pet hates too.
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like most capital cities they grew up because they have a river usually tidal (thames) why cant they ferry stuff from harwich and places by boat up to tilbury like in them olden days?
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interesting analogy
i 42 tonne truck
or
6 trucks at 7 1/2 tonne
or
14 transit type vans
lets look at wages
class 1 £10 per hour
class 2 £ 7.5o per hour
white van man ,minimum wage
makes your brie look a bit dear to me chaps, never mind the pinot grigio,
as an old mucka said,
roll the dice/
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Oh I see, you want more vehicles on the road, not less!
Capitalism is what has clogged the roads up; you want it made in China, or grown in South America, or built in Europe etc then it has to be transported.
You want to put it smaller vans, Any idea on the capacity of smaller vans versus bigger lorries, and costings too?
Not viable under current systems.
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Oh I see you want more vehicles on the road not less! Capitalism is what has clogged the roads up
And given us cars actually... Seems to me smaller quicker trucks are a good idea, even if there are more of them. I don't think it works out as bb suggests, costing heaps more. Maybe a bit, and maybe better traffic flow.
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I think his costings are spot on.
As a rough guide, 38 ton artic will hold around 120 washing machines (to use as a fairly standard size guide)
A 7 1/2 ton will hold around 24. take into account the running costs of the vehicles including the wages and fuel and depreciation and repairs and tests etc. A lot more expensive per unit delivered, and 6 7 1/2 ton vans take up more road than 1 artic.
Likewise for the transit type van.
Greta idea but really not practical ! sorry.
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some more info / views
www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/enviro...x
"It will also apply to some private vehicles such as some horse boxes and some motorhomes."
- so no camping with your horse in kens back yard :-)
Removal companies vans have a long life and do low mileage and appear to be hard hit.
from www.roadtransport.com
Are 7.5-tonne vehicles or vans covered?
From early 2008 the LEZ will affect all trucks over 12 tonnes, so initially 7.5-tonne vehicles will not be affected. But from July 2008 all goods vehicles between 3.5 tonnes and 12 tonnes will be included. Then in 2010 vans between 1.205 tonnes and 3.5 tonnes will be affected.
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Does anyone know how the enormous and ever increasing TFL bus fleet figures in this?
I know the black cab manufacturers (Manganese Bronze?) were saying recently that the Nissan diesels they use cannot comply without a lot of expenditure, that is uneconomic. Maybe this will hasten their replacement with 'conventional' cars, as used almost everywhere else in the world. The black cabs do have their benefits though - easily recognised, tight turning circle, high roof.
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ken is having them replaced with 55 chevvies and isuzi engines all sourced from havana - boxsterboy ;-)
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How does ken propose feeding, watering and cleaning up after the huge numbers of tourists that fill the hotels, theatres, museums of London? It's already one of the most expensive tourist destinations in the world, and this just makes it worse.
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Use the underground at night to deliver goods.
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Use the underground at night to deliver goods.
it's being maintained at night.
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>> Use the underground at night to deliver goods. it's being maintained at night.
most major cities in britain suffer with congestion, they also have canal systems that go through the heart of most major cities... why cant they drain them down and put an electric or diesel tram system in place to deliver goods or people
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Or simply use the canals for non-perishable deliveries. I believe it might have been done in the past ... ?
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just to update all the facts
Ken Livingstone, mayor of London says his London Low Emission Zone will come into force next year From 4 February 2008, trucks, including specialist vehicles over 12 tonnes will need to meet Euro 3 based emission standards. Trucks, motorhomes and other specialist vehicles over 3.5 tonnes will need to comply from 7 July next year and on October 2010 vans over 1.2 tonnes will be affected. In 2012 the basis of the emissions standard will shift to Euro 4. But from next February, the daily penalty for vehicles that dont meet the standards and get spotted in the LEZ by, amongst other things, automatic number plate recognition cameras, will be a£200.
Failure to pay means a £1,000 fine.
nice---------------
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