I seem to remember the figure is £50billion with 9billion spent on the roads , I try not to think about these thing s as it raises my blood pressure .
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Ah, someone who would like to pay less tax. Now there's a novelty.
Let's get real. Owning a car costs less in real terms than it ever has before. That's why your dad or grandad's family car was a Ford Anglia or A40 with a 1L engine. If he got a promotion he might aspire to something big like a Cortina with a 1.2 L engine. That's why most families now own two or three cars and the roads are chock-a-block. Who is "the" motorist, since motoring got so cheap we're all motorists, take a look around.
If I was so skint couldn't run the cars I do I'd buy something smaller. I hope I wouldn't whinge on and on about how persecuted I am. No wonder the Aussies call us the whinging poms.
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Ah someone who would like to pay less tax. Now there's a novelty. Let's get real. Owning a car costs less in real terms than it ever has before.
Rubbish.
www.incomesdata.co.uk/report/report855.pdf
Highest inflation rates, February 2002
Percentage of January 1987 level
Cigarettes 295.6
Personal services (eg hairdressing) 292.2
Entertainment and other recreation 274.3
Vehicle tax and insurance 270.0
Water and other charges 268.9
Rent 248.8
Repairs and maintenance charges 245.0
Tobacco 232.0
Domestic services (eg cleaning) 230.8
Maintenance of motor vehicles 228.4
Two of the top ten are motoring-related
Petrol was 37p/litre in 1987, RPI was 100 then, is 204.4 now. That's double, but petrol is well over double in cost (a lot more than 74p/litre now).
So you're talking rubbish
>>That's why your dad or grandad's family car was a Ford Anglia or A40with a 1L engine.
No that's because standards of living improve, and so does technology.
People have bigger TVs, more food, and more holidays as well.
If I was so skint couldn't run the cars I do I'd buy something smaller. I hope I wouldn't whinge on and on about how persecuted I am. No wonder the Aussies call us the whinging poms.
Your attitude is luddite.
Over many millennia standards of living have continued to improve. Life expectancy up, nutrition up, more luxuries, etc.
This is progress. So in 1900 we would have had no car, and a few pence a day to spend on food. Now we have TVs, foreign holidays, and our own car.
Except now the luddite green taxers are saying we should stop progressing, and lose our cars. The Americans don't put up with this nonsense. They rightly demand progress.
In this country it seems we're happy to get ripped off.
We put up with tiny houses that cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, whereas an American would expect a 3,500 square foot palace for the same money. We suffer guilt-based taxes on normal life, on driving, and doing anything else. We pay double what we did 10 years ago for a disastrous NHS, and for schools that in many areas are no more than young offenders institutes.
What happened to progress? The misanthropic green socialists have taken over, and are ru(i)nning the country.
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And remember a lot of 2 & 3 car owner families would happily run just 1 car if there was ANY public transport available outside of the big cities.
My customers often complain about the costs of the cars but add that they need a car just to get to work to earn the money to pay for food/housing/clothes etc before the car even comes into it. Which is why a lot of cars dont get maintained/serviced! Because a lot of the ordinary working folk just dont have the money !
I have to offer credit to some of my customers because they just cant pay the big bills in 1 hit. And I'm not the only 1 in my area doing it!
Get real, we are over taxed, under provided and generally worse off than the statistics actually imply.
We dont own more than our parents did; we just owe more ! Some of the more affluent may disagree of course but I suspect that like the government they are out of touch with reality too !
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Hi Yorkiebar, This discusion is getting better by the min, Another 9 years to go, if I live that long, I am off to live in goa (india) . Defo had enough of this rip off country that I live (survive) in. Cheers, Graham.
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And remember a lot of 2 & 3 car owner families would happily run just 1 car if there was ANY public transport available outside of the big cities.
Taxis are public transport. Do you mean you want higher taxes for higher subsidies on public transport rather than pay the cost price? Or do yo just want cheaper public transport and have someone else pay for it? Who?
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A bus service that operates 24 hours a day 7 days a week like the warehouses do would be a tremendous start!
Just so that people can get to work.
Oh yeah, a taxi thats cheaper than owning a car too ?
Not asking for subsidies, just public transport. obviously you are too far removed from the daily grind to comprehend?
My business, thank you is ok. looking for a house in Germany to emigrate to in approx 4 years. A place that is in chaos according to the press etc but where actually peopl live better lives than we do !
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Hi Flunky, could not have put it better myself. Cheers, Graham.
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>In this country it seems we're happy to get ripped off.
I?m well-off enough to live anywhere in the world but choose to love here. I don?t even especially mind paying the tax I do to pay for the education and healthcare of other people?s kids. The biggest downer in this country is the whinging self-pity of so many of the populace. It make my flesh creep.
>We put up with tiny houses that cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, whereas an American would expect a 3,500 >square foot palace for the same money.
It may of escaped your notice but there is far less land in the UK than in the US and the price in both countries is determined by supply and demand. If you want the price of land to be controlled in some other way and doled out to the deserving then you need a system similar to the old Soviet Union.
Despite the constant whinging, there are more home owners than ever before.
There will always be those who want more and more of less and less and want someone else to pay for it.
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Correct, we have less land, but we also have more people invading us. You may not have noticed that, living in your remote castle but to the rest of the population all these people have cars that clog up the roads etc etc.
Glad you are well off enough to be smug.
Doesnt matter how much % of tax is paid out what actually matters is how well you can live on the remainder.
In my area of the country (east mids/east anglia) its not good.
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> Correct, we have less land, but we also have more people invading us.
> In my area of the country (east mids/east anglia) its not good.
Then get off your backside and have the initiative to do what they did ? move. There are people coming from Poland to be plumbers and others from thousands of miles away in small boats to better themselves but you can?t even be bothered to move down the road. OK that?s fine if that?s what you want, but don?t whinge about the ones that do have the initiative to do better.
>Glad you are well off enough to be smug.
Thank you. I got of my backside and worked for it honestly. I don't begrudge anyone who does that.
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The only real reason they are all coming here is to work for wages that our own people cant survive on. But its ok because they are subsidised by us (taxpayers) and can then afford these jobs.
oh and I know of many instances where these cheap job fillers are actualy provided a car by the state; but thats another story.
I hate smug Im allright Jack type people who may had had a lucky break. But I consider myself an ordinary working man (better off than some I know) but still in touch with the real problems, not just the theory.
If you can afford to live on £14,000 a year (the average warehouse rate around me) then please tell me how , and how people can put money aside to emigrate with?
Dont forget a lot of people cant afford property so have nothing to sell; and all income is used; lets not get onto savings?
Enjoy your life by all means; but Britain is/was a caring place where looking out for each other helped us in the past. Now its fast becoming I';m allright Jack , thank you. And if the cap fits etc.
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Hi there, Flynn, If you are well-off enough to live ANYWHERE in the world, all i can say is you must be stark raving mad to still be living in the u.k. Damn rip off country that this has become, no offence intended, Cheers, Graham.
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>In this country it seems we're happy to get ripped off. I?m well-off enough to live anywhere in the world but choose to love here. I don?t even especially mind paying the tax I do to pay for the education and healthcare of other people?s kids. The biggest downer in this country is the whinging self-pity of so many of the populace. It make my flesh creep.
Self-pity? Are we supposed to be grateful for higher taxes? Oh yes please Gordon, tax me more. I don't think so.
I make a very good income as it happens, but yes, I do mind paying for education and healthcare when both are an absolute disgrace. Especially when an ever-rising number proportion of those having kids do so as a lifestyle choice - a few kids, free house, lots of public money to live off. The true working class (i.e. people that work for a living, that worke to get themselves an education), have little chance of affording a house that's suitable for raising children. Where I work in Islington houses cost £1m+, and the only way to get one if you haven't got a million quid is to get one off the council. The result is that 52.7% of children in Islington are growing up in workless households. How does that make any sense?
>We put up with tiny houses that cost hundreds of thousands of pounds whereas an American would expect a 3 500 >square foot palace for the same money. It may of escaped your notice but there is far less land in the UK than in the US and the price in both countries is determined by supply and demand. If you want the price of land to be controlled in some other way and doled out to the deserving then you need a system similar to the old Soviet Union.
There is plenty of land in England. Nothing has changed in the last ten years, at which time you could buy a London flat for about £60k. Yes there is immigration, but the number of houses being built has kept pace.
The price is determined by fiscal policy and credit availability. The last time inflation was at 4%, as it is now, interest rates were at 8%. If the bank will lend 8 times income, that is what people will borrow. The result is the same house costs twice as much as it used to.
Despite the constant whinging there are more home owners than ever before.
I am not sure what that has to do with it. 30% of graduates will never have children. The population gap is filled by rising birthrates among non-graduates and high immigration, which are not necessarily good for prosperity.
Young middle-class people, the kind doing middle-ranking jobs, should be having children but are not, because the number of first time buyers is at its lowest ever. How are they supposed to afford family homes? Forget about whinging, think about your pension. No children means no-one to pay the spiralling pensions bill. I assume you don't imagine all those children growing up in workless households are going to be contributing.
There will always be those who want more and more of less and less and want someone else to pay for it.
Yes, that would seem to apply to the kind of people who can afford to have children; i.e. people having it paid for by the government. Not sure how it applies to motorists fed up of being made multi-billion pound scapegoat while others get off scott-free though - the motorists pay for it ten times over. Not sure how it applies to young couple who would in the past have been able to buy a modest house to raise a family in, but now have no hope. Don't think they're asking for more and more; a house now costs more than twice as much as it did in real-terms in 1987, seems like they're getting far less.
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The government needs a certain income from taxes to balance its budget. If the tax they collected from motoring related sources was decreased then they would have to increase the tax from other sources, so you would still be complaining.
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L\'escargot.
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The perception of the amount we pay is easily influenced if not governed by your income so peoples views will differ vastly and i accept that and wont argue my points. Therefore its hard to comment and agree.
Personally... From a high level i think we do pay over the odds and suffer in comparison to other countries but what i also agree with is we have a good standard of living here. We aren't without our problems but we are better off than the majority of the countries. Everything here whilst it may be a bit expensive we have have up to date decent services, shops and places to visit that are kept pretty clean and tidy. We have a decent level of professionals working to help us and have decent support services and schemes (whilst we know the gov wants money out of them) they are available to us. We are evolving and unfortunately the government is pushing performance in numbers which isn't quite the best way. But we do have a decent level of equal opportunity and in this diverse society everyone has the ability to share the advantages of living here.
So bottom line, it is expensive and it is a bit unfair but we do get a decent standard of living which i guess we pay for. I use the word decent a lot because i believe this country is decent all round, not exceptional just a decent all round package. Some people may be able to pick serious faults with this gov. thats a different discussion but we live in such a diverse world/country that not everyone can agree and there has to be some sensible middle ground and sometimes i think there has to be some realisation of what good things we do have here and how we are a lot more avantaged than a lot of others.
All in all, it depends on your views, lifestyle and requirements and my views are my own and not intended to influence or preech to others :)
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And since this is a car forum and a thread about car (taxes) it is also worth mentioning that the majority of people in some countries in the euro union aren't wealthy enough to own new/newish cars and in most cases still drive around in 10y/o cars from the richer countries like us. The finance and freedom of choice allows us to buy or lease new/newish cars, a luxury we have accepted as the norm, just like dvd players, widescreen LCD/Plasma TV's etc.
We have got used to this level of wealth which you could call evolution or moving with the times and i except this. There just lacks some realisation of what we do have in comparison. With things like fuel taxes, if these were reduced our finite resources would be abused. Put the petrol at £1p/l and you will think about using your car to go to the local shops. I dont think i have to explain what would happen if our finite resources dried up.
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And since this is a car forum and a thread about car (taxes) it is also worth mentioning that the majority of people in some countries in the euro union aren't wealthy enough to own new/newish cars and in most cases still drive around in 10y/o cars from the richer countries like us
You want to name these countries? Or just hypothetical comments made to support the argument for excessive taxation over here? From my travels in europe most families have 1 car but use public transport where they can!
Tax needs to be paid, never had an argument with that, but its how much, how its used, and where its spent that matters.
Tell an ordinary working man around here that he is lucky to have a car to get to that poor paid job. If he lived in xland he would have to walk to work (or would he use a bus because of the better public transport available?)
If any government wants cars off the road (and imo they are the new cigarette equivalent, ie excessive taxation because its the current "anti environment" thing) then all that needs to be done is to provide alternative public transport. People would love to get rid of their 2nd and 3rd cars!
To people that work in a warehouse 10 miles away, starting at (in my area anyway) either 6am, 8 am, 10 am, 11am 12 am, 2pm, 4 pm, 6 pm, 8pm, 10 pm is impossible without your own transport. Why this needs to be taxed so much that it is cheaper to not go to work (!) baffles me.
Very often on here it seems that because a person can afford their car; its tough luck on those that cant, even if they then cant get to work to make the profits for those that can. But if they cant the subsidised job fillers will ! Until they have made enough money from our subsidies and emigrated back! (oxymoron?)
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