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To avoid the aggression and bad-tempers that often occur when two lanes become one at roadworks, surely the fairest way for traffic to join would be to make zip-merging the norm. Approach so that both lanes have the same amount of traffic then, at the constriction, they should proceed alternately from left and right approach lanes. This technique is often requested by temporary signs but just as often ignored.
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This is common (universal?) in the USA and it works very well. That's just one of many overseas practices that we could adopt, and one wonders why we don't.
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I was talking to the wife about this only yesterday. I think the problem is that the request is not made every time. If *every* set of roadworks had a sign saying "use both lanes to obstruction then merge in turn" it would rapidly take over as the accepted form. The problem is that the signs are too occasional.
As it sits, most people get into lane early, then resent (quite understandably) the ones who use this as an excuse to make progress at their expense. If everyone did one thing or the other, the road rage that builds up at roadworks would be greatly reduced. All it would take is an extra sign at every set of roadworks to push people to zip in turn and accept it as the norm.
V
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I think it depends how fast the traffic is moving, if in a queue, it should zip-merge, if free flowing, they should merge into one lane as soon as it is safe to do so to prevent a mad swerve at the last minute..
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In '93 or '94 when I was using the Baldersby to Piercebridge stretch of the A1 a lot there were roadworks that reduced the dual carriageway to one lane. At the approach there were big black and yellow diagrams of cars zip merging at the beginning of the works. Given that traffic density was much lower then, I remember it working very well but it doesn't seem to have caught on to be the norm. We don't seem to have learnt much, do we?
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Vin is right. If the technique was promoted to become normal, the confusion and irritation of merging lanes would disappear. At present if you are in the lane that disappears, you are never sure if people are going to let you in. If you are in the lane that doesn't disappear, you may feel resentful when cars overtake in the other lane and then expect to be let in.
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"Vin is right."
Lud, I've always thought highly of you. I've now realised that you are a diamond amongst posters on this site whose veracity should and, indeed, must never be doubted.
V
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To avoid the aggression and bad-tempers that often occur when two lanes become one at roadworks, surely the fairest way for traffic to join would be to make zip-merging the norm.
alangowdy: other replies in previous discussions on this subject can be found at:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=13564&...e
Zip merging - AlanGowdy Wed 11 Jun 03 13:47
In road works situations where a lane is closed and everyone has to merge into one, I get really annoyed by people
and
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=18552&...e
Zippering - zarqon Sat 20 Dec 03 16:31
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=36425&...e
Queue defending "heroes" - razzle Thu 17 Nov 05 12:47
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=41233&...e
If there are two lanes - use them! - andy76 Thu 4 May 06 23:39
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=10...4
3 into 2 - Marcus Mon 3 Feb 03 21:55
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Ah, Dalglish once again shows his standard response of using the forum search as a first point of reference to show you that this has been discussed before. Woe betide you if he catches you contradicting yourself or repeating a point you've made before.
Looks like it hasn't been discussed for nearly a year, so don't feel bad about raising it again.
V
See:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/reply.htm?m=572312
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=50...1
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=50...7
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=50...7
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=50...0
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=50...7
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I try not to feel guilty about zipping down an empty lane and squeezing in at the end - however, I detest the idiots who believe they are doing the world a favour by straddling both lanes to prevent anyone getting ahead of them and, god forbid, actually making sensible use of the space available.
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Especially sanctamonious (oh we never do anything wrong) drivers of larger vehicles, thus blocking legitimate zipping by motorcyclists.
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Talking of which .... today's Darwin award goes to the two bikes forcing their way down the middle of two lanes on the A35 this evening which were otherwise zip merging well. Nice wide handlebars , mirrors etc they were almost as wide as a small car - well done to the New Forest chapter........NOT.
Might have been ok had they just sat in line a few cars before the merge point, I'm amazed they didnt get squashed by the shed tugger in front of me
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Looks like it hasn't been discussed for nearly a year, so don't feel bad about raising it again.
>>
:: ;- ) :: and as usual vin likes to take issue with me for the sake of it, but there is nothing new in that. (i look forward to his reviving the "let's return in five years", a promise vin made in the "china fuel consumption" thread). at least it confirms that i am hitting the right button where vin is sensitive! :: ;-) ::
so what is the harm in bumping up the original thread (rather than start a fresh thread on the same old story), and let newcomers or even oldtimers see what has been said before, and then see what new opinions/views can be added? (especially as it is the same author who started the discussion on the same subjectg before ? )
or is vin trying to kid me that it is worth recycling the same discussion every year ?
( vin, yes, how about using the search button to put your excellent idea to good use. i am sure you are clever enough to find one old topic to restart every day ).
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"so what is the harm in bumping up the original thread (rather than start a fresh thread on the same old story), and let newcomers or even oldtimers see what has been said before, and then see what new opinions/views can be added?"
Because the effect is not the same:
Compare the reults - three replies 35 minutes after posting:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=50855&...4
With the result of:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=48...5
No replies after nearly two weeks.
People like fresh threads. Most people aren't bothered to go through longer threads. Pub conversations are like this. Do them to death, but a year later they don't seem stale when they are brought up again. It's clearly a bugbear of yours when people do bring things up more than once, but that's the way of the world. People forget and new people join the forum, and the world moves on.
V
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My personal opinion on this is I hate seeing people go down the empty lane until they can't go any further, do they also jump the queue at the post office? At the checkout?
Having said that, if I am in a major rush eg. need to get back to pick up kids, I will use the outside lane to save some time!
However my suggestion, which I have muted before is that from the 800 yard roadwork sign, a line of cones split the lanes so that you stay in the lane you are in. Then at the actual roadworks each lane has a give way sign so that neither have the "right of way" onto the single lane for the roadworks. That way drivers will be alot more careful and I feel, a lot more considerate.
Just my humble opinion!
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Bobby's idea would certainly stop the bikers riding up the middle!
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The place that always annoys me is the A21 just after Tonbridge, where it goes from 2 to 1 lanes. People refuse to use the right lane if its busy, so there is regularly a queue back to the junction, sometimes threatening to block it. I am sure it would work better with zip merging, but I don't dare to use the right lane and incur the wrath of the people stuck in the left lane and take the back route instead.
Any encouragement to zip merge is great in my opinion.
AJS
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Zip merging would have to be 'officialised' in the Highway Code before it can become a standard practice.
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>>do they also jump the queue at the post office
No, but I will join whichever is the shortest queue and I wouldn't really expect someone in the longer queue to stop me moving past him just because he had chosen to sit in the other line and he was bigger than me.
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>>do they also jump the queue at the post office
No, but I will join whichever is the shortest queue and I wouldn't really expect someone in the longer queue to stop me moving past him just because he had chosen to sit in the other line and he was bigger than me.
But the difference here is that you are jumping a queue as, in most cases, the lane ahead is also the inside lane that everyone is queuing on. So you are not forming an extra queue, you are jumping the existing one!
As I said before, if you make the resultant single lane a "different" lane from either of the two approaching lanes, then it takes away that aggression as neither sets of drivers are in the correct lane so must give way to each other!
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I think this should certainly be encouraged - quite right, it needs to be officially sanctioned. I hope the powers that be, if they do so, will speak normal English and call it simply 'merging in turn': I didn't know what zip merging was until I read the original thread!
I hope HJ may see this and tell us what he thinks. If he agrees with us he might perhaps see if the Telegraph Motoring editor (is it still the excellent Andrew English?) would be interested in promoting the idea.
I'm sue that merging in turn would reduce delays, and help to avoid both the boy-racers who cut in at the last moment and the sanctimonious patience-is-a virtue queuers who won't let them in.
There are some places where there's an officlal sigh saying 'merge in turn', for example just east of the Twin Bridges roundabout in Bracknell, Berks; also near the Oracle in central Reading. It works.
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I agree 100% with the Op and with Avant's comments above.
Standard practice should be two lanes of traffic up to the restriction then merge in turn just before the restriction, that way the road capacity is maintained as much as possible rather than a mile or two of empty lane next to a queue which goes so far back it impinges on junctions and thus other connecting roads.
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To avoid the aggression and bad-tempers that often occur when two lanes become one at roadworks,
Perhaps there should be a regular test to weed out the drivers who are prone to aggression and bad tempers. These traits have no place on today's roads.
--
L\'escargot.
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If most of the traffic is in lane 1, as it should be unless overtaking, then the encouragement to zip-merge will cause some cars to move out into the overtaking lane in order to zip further up the queue. It seems to sanction, indeed encourage, the very thing people get irritated over.
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If most of the traffic is in lane 1, as it should be unless overtaking, then the encouragement to zip-merge will cause some cars to move out into the overtaking lane in order to zip further up the queue. It seems to sanction, indeed encourage, the very thing people get irritated over.
No, because in a traffic jam on a dual carriageway the traffic uses both lanes, whether at standstill or stop and start, therefore both lanes would be used right up to the restriction rather that the current daft move into one lane miles in advance of the restriction (usually at the first indication that a lane may be closed) which leads to arguments when some vehicles use the clear lane (as is their right) and some misguided vigilante positions his vehicle (usually a 7.5 tonner) across the lane dividing lines thinking he is doing everyone a favour.
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But when there isn't a traffic jam, the "zip" instruction will still stand. Cue for lots of people who might otherwise have waited a bit in lane 1 to nip over into lane 2 in order to do a bit of zipping and gain a few cars' lengths.
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But when there isn't a traffic jam, the "zip" instruction will still stand. Cue for lots of people who might otherwise have waited a bit in lane 1 to nip over into lane 2 in order to do a bit of zipping and gain a few cars' lengths.
But if there isn't a traffic jam, the, presumably the traffic is flowing freely people don't feel held up and so don't need to 'jump' the que, merging as you would now, at say, m'way roadworks in the evening.
----------------------------------------------
Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
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Zip merging on the road is about as reliable as the merging of a zip on an old pair of trousers!
--
L\'escargot.
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It wouldn't make much difference what the standard method of merging two lanes of traffic into one was, so long as there was a standard method. The same volume of traffic has to squeeze past the same obstruction, after all.
The advantage of merging in turn is the tailback doesn't stretch as far; the advantage of keeping left is the traffic keeps moving, albeit slowly. Either way, the advantage of agreeing a standard method is that - IMHO - we'd all know what to expect (hopefully!) approaching the aforementioned obstruction. If nothing else, we'd have concensus on which motorists deserved our our righteous indignation :-)
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