Pratnav strikes again - Lud
A coach driver from Fareham with a load of 8-year-olds supposedly visiting Hampton Court Palace entered Hampton Court, London on his satnav and followed its instructions to Highbury and Islington station, not an ideal place to be driving a coach most days.

Of course we all know that driving does not require high cognitive abilities, just sufficient intellect to contain all or most of the variables and the ability to concentrate. But this driver was still impressively stupid. And what of the teachers in the coach and the following one driven by the driver's apprentice? Had no one worked out that Hampton Court Palace was outside London, on the same side as Fareham?

Be Oi Berkshire? Be Oi ****ery! Oi be up from Fareham.
Oi got gaiters on moi legs and Oi knows how to wear'em. (Upside down probably).
Pratnav strikes again - No Do$h
Perhaps the driver was Polish ::ducks and runs::
Pratnav strikes again - Cliff Pope
It does make one wonder what exactly was the point of the trip. Did the teachers not brief the children beforehand about where they were going, the historical context, etc? How did they imagine Henry Vlll was rowed in his state barge up the river to Highbury and Islington?
Pratnav strikes again - mare
Perhaps the driver was Polish ::ducks and runs::


Oh how i have missed your ducking and running! Glad to have you back ND!
Pratnav strikes again - FP
If Backroomers want to read the original story, together with some comments, here it is:

tinyurl.com/2w4t9o
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
In this instance I'd wager that using a London A-Z he would make the same mistake. Because as Lud says, Hampton Court Palace isn't in London is it? If he tried to drive to Hampton Court in London using maps, A-Z, asking directions he would have still gone wrong as he was trying to go to the wrong destination. We cannot blame sat-nav for taking him to where he wanted to go.

Recreating what the driver should have done, if I enter a destination on TomTom 5 as City = East Molesey and Road = Hampton Court Way then I think I would get close to his destination.

So the driver was bad on geography this time as he must have thought the destination was in London, as did all the teachers.
Pratnav strikes again - Westpig
It's not the Satnav that's wrong is it........it's the idiot using it.

If you use some common sense and accept that the satnav can only be as good as the info typed into it, they're fine...

Surely, any driver is going to know roughly what direction they'll be going in, roughly which part of the country they're heading to and roughly, traffic permitting, what time it will take.....if you can't achieve any of those three you're not in the right job driving a coach are you?
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
There's been many examples where sat nav with the right destination has taken drivers down inappropriate roads. And even some drivers stupid enough to drive through fords with high water etc.

But this article is clearly misleading. The sat nav actually got the coach to the destination entered. The trip was ruined because the driver thought his destination was at Hampton Court London and not where the palace really is. If I was using sat nav to get there and could not find Hampton Court Palace as a landmark I'd want to look up it's real address, possibly the post code. At that point I'd realise it was in East Molesey.

The driver should obviously have looked at the "planning your visit" page on their website ;-) Or better still looked at a map, worked out roughly where it is and followed the sign-posts which will probably guide you from most major roads in the area - and take you down the preferred roads and not necessarily the quickest.
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
Just checked Tourist Attractions on TomTom5... Hampton Court Palace IS in there... so definately user stupidity.
Pratnav strikes again - dxp55
You can't expect a teacher to know in what direction the coach driver was going - they have no idea of their own direction.
Sat navs should be banned from use like mobiles as witnessed by 90k Merc driving down a river and woman with high power job using one to go home and turned left up railway line at rail crossing.

Pratnav strikes again - BazzaBear {P}
Sat navs should be banned from use like mobiles as witnessed
by 90k Merc driving down a river and woman with high
power job using one to go home and turned left up
railway line at rail crossing.

Both of those cases were caused by idiocy, not sat-nav. Surely then, while you're jumping on the banning bandwagon, you should ban idiots, not sat-nav?
Pratnav strikes again - Waino
As a daily user of OS Landranger maps to find out-of-the-way places, I was supercynical about satnav. BUT ..... after 3 months using a Tomtom One, I am truly a convertee - I think it's marvelous. Of course you still have to use common sense, as Westpig says, and I still wouldn't be without my OS maps - but I really do appreciate not having to keep stopping and checking the map all the while. OK, there are a few oddities such as new roads that it doesn't know about and it can't beat local knowledge, but I wouldn't be without it now!
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
Waino

Pity you don't have a PDA running TOMTOM because you could get MemoryMap which would give you your OS Landranger maps too. There's PC and Windows PocketPC software with the maps (which are printable). You can plan routes, etc. And with the PDA with GPS you can see where you are on the map when out walking etc. for following routes etc. Or you could set proximity markers so you know you're near, e.g. if you were driving looking for a spot to turn off you could be warned etc. I've done that to find places in the lake district before now.

Excellent software. Anyone not seen this check out the demo of the PC product.

They also recently teamed up with RoadAngel to offer their maps on one of their waterproof devices.. tinyurl.com/38j7al



Pratnav strikes again - Waino
Thanks, rtj - I guess it will have to be a RoadAngel next. My friend was using an arrangement using his handheld pc together with a separate unit for the 'satnav' bit (sorry, I don't know enough about it to give it its correct name), but he found that the additional wires and more bits to hide when you parked were an inconvenience. He thought my Tomtom One was very neat in comparison - and he remarked on its speed.

Have you tried a RoadAngel? Is the Adventurer 7000 an all-in-one unit and do you know if it will accept an OS grid ref as a destination input? Thanks.

Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
Waino

I assume the RoadAngel has the MemoryMap software loaded alongside their routing satnav software. The maps for OS are effectively flat bitmaps so you don't have routing to destination on the OS maps because routing needs mapping data on roads etc. Although you could plot a route that you "follow" when driving but not exactly sat nav.

A feature sadly missing from the latest TomTom (and probably other) software is the ability to navigate to a longditude/latitude which you could easily find by other means.

My way around this has been to use MemoryMap to find the location and figure out where on TomTom that is.
Pratnav strikes again - henry k
So the driver was bad on geography this time as he must have thought the destination was in London, as did all the teachers.


Hampton Court Palace IS in the Greater London Authority area, not in Molesey ( which is on the other side of HC bridge ).
Pratnav strikes again - 007
I do not understand the fuss about car navigation systems. I have had one in my car for the last 30 years. It does not need programming I merely have to muse out loud what route I need to take either in the UK or abroad and the matter is taken care of. Not only does it install itself next to me and provide voice prompts, sometimes it must be said in an unduly hysterical tone, but it also provides a regular supply of boiled sweets.
There are alas only five models in the UK including a fully functional 86-year old original; mine was produced in the early 50s.
I have found only two drawbacks. Firstly, it is fatal to inquire of a visiting unit which route it had taken from A-B as this invariably results in a very long and detailed description of same, and a quirk that is specific to mine; having obeyed an instruction to turn left it pokes me in the ribs and tells me it meant the other left or as I call it- right
Pratnav strikes again - Brian Tryzers
Bravo, 007. I have a similar system in my car - although, being a more recent model dating from the late 60s, it sometimes needs prompting for jelly babies. I do miss it when I'm travelling alone, but I miss it more when there's another system in its seat, which may be a similar shape but is nowhere near so well programmed.

The point here - as I'm sure no-one here needs telling - is that a satnav, intelligently used, can certainly save time and trouble. But, like a calculator, it's only a complement to brainpower, not a substitute for it - something I keep trying to impress upon my satnav-obsessed cricket captain, who is invariably the last to arrive at the grounds we visit.
Pratnav strikes again - drbe
Trust me, I am a local.

Hampton Court Palace is on the North bank of the Thames and is in Twickenham in Middlesex and in the London borough of richmond on thames.

Before anyone tells that Middlesex doesn't exist - it isn't true.

I don't blame Satnav, I blame the bus driver and a lesser extent all those overpaid teachers sitting there with their brains in shut-down mode.
Pratnav strikes again - PhilW
"I blame the bus driver and a lesser extent all those overpaid teachers sitting there with their brains in shut-down mode. "

Have you ever tried to tell a coach driver he's going the wrong way? They all have their "own routes" which are "quicker", "shorter" etc., and they stick to them come may. Once had a friend who told me of his trip to Stowe School for a cricket fixture from Leics. Easy eh? Straight down M1 for a bit, then turn right somewhere and an hour or so later you arrive. After a little while there were comments about the strange route, but the driver said "I know the way to Stowe, been there many times". As they wend(ed?) their way through various bits of Warwickshire and Worcs, voices were again raised but "I know the way, this way is quicker than the motorway, are you trying to tell me my job? I know where Stow(e) is you just do your job and I'll do mine, how do you expect me to drive when you are always complaining" The kick-off (?) time came and went and the Cotswolds hove into view. Eventually, as they drove into Stow-on-the Wold the driver turned and said, "Now exactly where in Stow is the school you want?". Very politely, it was pointed out that the school they wanted was in Stowe (Bucks?). "Why the hell didn't you tell me" said the driver. They apparently arrived at Stowe School at about 5pm for their 11am start. The opposition had gone home. This was in the days before mobile phones, the M42, M40 etc.
By the way, I liked the blame you attached to teachers. Since when have they been employed to guide coach drivers? And of course they are overpaid - try it for a week or two. It's a great job as my wife never ceases to tell me. I'm sure you would love being insulted, sworn at, threatened regularly and assaulted occasionally by those 30 recalitrant teenagers sitting (occasionally) in front of you. And after 30 odd years as a (damned good) teacher she gets just over £30k a year.
If they are so overpaid, get a TES, apply for a job, there's a huge shortage, and reap the rewards - but if you serve 'til 65 your life expectancy will be 5 years. Enjoy it.
--
Phil
Pratnav strikes again - Lud
I thought 'overpaid teachers' a bit much too. They may be power-crazed morons (anyway a measurable percentage of them) but I don't think they are overpaid 'by modern standards' unquote
Pratnav strikes again - drbe
I thought 'overpaid teachers' a bit much too. They may be
power-crazed morons (anyway a measurable percentage of them) but I don't
think they are overpaid 'by modern standards' unquote


I apologize for my comment about 'overpaid teachers', that was unecessary.

I was shooting from the hip.

However did it not occur to any of them (two coaches remember, all armed with mobile phones) that this was a funny way to go to the West London/Surrey/Middlesex area?t
Pratnav strikes again - PhilW
007,
Either you are Tom Sedman who posted exactly the same on the Telegraph site or your post is an amazing coincidence!!
--
Phil
Pratnav strikes again - Neiltoo
I laughed till the tears ran down my leg!


I could almost have written this, and my system held up its hand to the other left.

thank you so much

Neil
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
I'm happy for Microsoft to be wrong ;-) But some websites also has it down as East Molesey in Surrey such as the official website for Historic Royal Palaces:

hrp.org.uk/hampton/planning_your_visit

This has the address as:

Hampton Court Palace
East Molesey
Surrey
KT8 9AU
England

So the Royal Palaces website needs updating ;-)

Point is though, the driver was to blame for trying to get to the wrong location.
Pratnav strikes again - mfarrow
So the Royal Palaces website needs updating ;-)


So does the Royal Mail website in that case.

--------------
Mike Farrow
Pratnav strikes again - P.Mason {P}
A local village has had official signs erected to warn sat. nav. users. Link below.

tinyurl.com/2ewxtn

P.
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
Intrigued by the Royal Mail reference, I just looked up Hampton Court Palace postcode/address using the "search by business name" option.... and here's the URL for the result:

tinyurl.com/2o2zca

they claim there is a business of that name at this address:

Hampton Court Palace
35 Hampton Street
LONDON
SE17 3AN

No wonder the bus driver was confused!
Pratnav strikes again - drbe
>> So the Royal Palaces website needs updating ;-)
So does the Royal Mail website in that case.
--------------
Mike Farrow


I dispute none of the above. My point is that geographically Hampton Court Palace is in Middlesex.

That that administratively and postally it is placed elsewhere doesn't alter that fact
Pratnav strikes again - henry k
But some websites... the address as:
Hampton Court Palace, East Molesey, Surrey, KT8 9AU, England
So the Royal Palaces website needs updating ;-)

Maybe BUT there is no really defined area for about a mile E W or N of the palace while East Molesey is just over the bridge on the other bank of the Thames. ( Thames Ditton is actually opposite the Palace but it is not suitable for visitor traffic) . Long Ditton and Seething Wells, to name but two also look across the Thames to the park).

Trust me (and drbe) I too am a local ( well within a couple of miles) and I commuted daily past the palace for a couple of decades.

Two minutes with a map would have clearly identified where it is and it is very easy to find it .
Pratnav strikes again - Lud
Two minutes with a map would have clearly identified where it
is and it is very easy to find it .


My very point in the original post, although I didn't think it necessary to state it explicitly. Moreover, how can anyone become even a primary school teacher without ever having learned more or less where Hampton Court Palace is?

I like a nice machine as much as the next person, indeed more than most. The prat in 'pratnav' is the user, not the device.
Pratnav strikes again - Lud
By the way, I really enjoyed the way the two satnav enthusiasts started swopping technobabble in the middle of this thread... :o)
Pratnav strikes again - PhilW
"Moreover, how can anyone become even a primary school teacher without ever having learned more or less where Hampton Court Palace is? "

OK, OK I declare an interest (as obvious from previous post) because my wife is a teacher - but where exactly does it state that the teachers did not know the location of Hampton Court palace?
Do you always guide your bus driver/coach driver/taxi driver/train driver/plane pilot to the destination? Is it not part of their job to have found out where they are going and the route? Let's be honest, this is not the fault of the satnav or the teachers - it was a driver putting in the wrong destination, the satnav seems to have its job perfectly, it got the driver to the exact destination he had programmed in. The teachers seem to have supervised their charges effectively, and done their best to help a lost driver.
""A school outing turned into a disaster when the driver punched the wrong details into his sat nav ... Managing Director [of the coach firm] said "We hold out hands up; it was an older driver with a new gadget"."
--
Phil
Pratnav strikes again - Lud
PhilW, I am only teasing teachers, not blaming them for the idiot coach driver's idiocy. Even so it would have been good if someone had rapped on the glass and made the guy go to the right place before it was too late. But I agree, he was the culprit and teachers are all right.
Pratnav strikes again - PhilW
Fair enough, Lud.
Without satnav I'm afraid that this coach driver would probably have looked the destination up in his London A-Z, found it, and arrived at exactly the same destination - NOT Hampton Court Palace!
--
Phil
Pratnav strikes again - Waino
Fair enough, Lud. >>


No, no, no, Phil, Lud was right first time. Teachers are to blame for everything that's wrong with this country - every time - from not keeping an eye on the coach driver to the increase in knife crime, road rage, bad driving, theft, mugging, drug use ................zzzzzzzzzzz.
Pratnav strikes again - PhilW
"Teachers are to blame for everything that's wrong with this country - every time - from not keeping an eye on the coach driver to the increase in knife crime, road rage, bad driving, theft, mugging, drug use ................zzzzzzzzzzz. 2

You forgot the theft of Ford Escorts!
--
Phil
Pratnav strikes again - Waino
You forgot the theft of Ford Escorts!>>


Specifically - yes ....... but I had mentally included Ford escorts in with the general 'theft'. This includes Ford Escorts, Mondeos, all 4-wheeled things, all 2-wheeled things, things without wheels ..........zzzzzzzzz. Teachers ...... pah!

In case you hadn't guessed, SWMBO is a teacher ;-)
Pratnav strikes again - Westpig
PhilW, I am only teasing teachers, not blaming them for the
idiot coach driver's idiocy. Even so it would have been good
if someone had rapped on the glass and made the guy
go to the right place before it was too late. But
I agree, he was the culprit and teachers are all right.


It's too late Lud........SWMBO was out at first light in her combat gear scouring West London for a house with a Skoda in the front garden.....be afraid.
Pratnav strikes again - henry k
For those not familiar with the region.
What route from Fareham ( situated between Southampton and Portsmouth) would you select or a Sat Nav select?
Errrr I guess M27 then either M3 or A3(M) and A3 to London
Both the A3 and the M3 J1 at 15 miles from London, IIRC, will /do have a big brown sign with a palace on it and some suitable wording.

Oh dear!!! Not a lot of excuses are there ?

Oh yes there are

Having not noticed these signs....
"At one point a teacher got off to buy a map and when this failed to get the drivers back on track, another member of the group rang the school for directions."

and
"Zenith managing director Alan Jerrim said the drivers' problems were compounded by the fact that the children were riding in two coaches not yet fitted with a tracking device, allowing staff at the company's HQ to pinpoint their location and redirect them. "

tinyurl.com/2uty5y
for story, map and pictures
Pratnav strikes again - Nsar
Seems like the guy thought that by switching on a gadget he could switch off his brain. It's why I treat cars with sat nav with extra caution.
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
VW will soon launch, if not already, a car (okay a van 'cos a Touran) that will self parallel park with you only needing to provide the accelerator input. Lexus already have this and others do/will too.

So the bit that worries me....

... if a car can parallel park using cameras and sensors, and we have lane departure warning (like vibrating seat bolsters in Citroens), lane following in some Hondas, and of course our beloved sat nav....

What will stop really soon (apart from the law) a car being able to navigate, steer and then park at the destination! And it will of course be the wrong Hampton Court Palace in the wrong bit of London/Middlesex/Surrey* (*delete as appropriate). Technology is here I think and I work in IT and that worries me thinking about it.
Pratnav strikes again - henry k
VW will soon launch, if not already, a car (okay a
What will stop really soon (apart from the law) a car being able to navigate, steer and then park at the destination!
And it will of course be the wrong Hampton Court Palace........

But there is no parallel parking at Hampton Court ;-(( now what?

On the approach to Hampton Court from the M3 there is a bus lane (07:00 - 10:00) . Outside these hours approx 95% do not dare enter it and hug the centre line.
What chance reading a map when this is what really happens.
Pratnav strikes again - bignick
1. No driver and especially not a coach bus driver should EVER set off on a journey without being aware of the route they will be following in at least general terms.

2. I find it hard to beleive that an experienced coach driver from Fareham has never in his career followed any route that took him past a sign for Hampton Court Palace. He should have been at least aware that it is south and west of London.

3.In his defence multimap when asked to search for Hampton Court produces 21 possibilities including Islington N1

Thank God they werent visiting Leeds Castle!

Pratnav strikes again - drbe
Curioser and curioser!

RAC Route Planner suggests that Hampton Court Palace is in or near Rugeley.

I don't believe it!
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
This story of a woman driving into a river really makes you wonder about the mentality and intelligence of some drivers following satnav devices:

tinyurl.com/3y626z

After ignoring the signs that said unsuitable for motor vehicles, upon seeing the river/ford they still thought they should continue and accelerated at the water hoping to get across!! Unbelievable. And again the news article implies the satnav device was to blame. This driver would obviously have driven off a cliff as well if told to do so.
Pratnav strikes again - local yokel
I think there needs to be a new category in the Darwin awards for the greatest display of stupidity when using a SatNav. To date the lady in the Merc referred above is my winner.
Pratnav strikes again - daveyjp
Mine sent me down a road on the East Coast which was washed away by winter high tides. Fortunately I chose to believe the 'ROAD AHEAD CLOSED' sign!

I've just 'rescued' someone with an out of date satnav who tried to turn right down a road which has recently been blocked off. He was in a rented LWB Sprinter and couldn't turn round in the narrow lane he ventured onto - I let him into the office car park so he could turn round.
Pratnav strikes again - IanJohnson
Last time I was in Edinburgh centre Tom Tom told me to turn right - I ignored TomTom because there was a round red sign with a white horizontal line (looked to be very new).

Some of these people should not be allowed out alone - the really worrying bit is that they can vote!
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
More worrying than voting is they can drive! They are dangerous. There was a woman recently that turned onto a railway line because the satnav told her to! Maybe she should win the new "Darwin" category.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6430859.stm
Pratnav strikes again - milkyjoe
i wonder what type of sat nav the royal navy are using at the minute....whoops?
Pratnav strikes again - local yokel
Milkyjoe - having served in the RN pre SatNav, my guess is that they knew exactly where they were, and the Iranians laid a trap for them, within the waters that Iran disputes with Iraq, but which are internationally recognised as Iraqi.

The USAAF briefly had problems with the F-22 and the dateline which had not been accounted for in the on-board computers:

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1791574/posts


Pratnav strikes again - Altea Ego
Sat nav is no good where there is NO recognised border.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Pratnav strikes again - Cliff Pope
It's like the old "put your phone in a bucket of water" story, updated for modern technology.
Pratnav strikes again - milkyjoe
Sat nav is no good where there is NO recognised border.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >

satnav works on geographical grid co-ordinates, its got nowt to do with terratorial borders!
Pratnav strikes again - BazzaBear {P}
satnav works on geographical grid co-ordinates, its got nowt to do
with terratorial borders!


It has if your map and the Iranian one disagree on where the border is, and your satnav is telling you you're just on the right side of where you think it is...
Pratnav strikes again - paulb {P}
Thing that annoys me about mine (TomTom One) is its endearing tendency in urban areas to try and send me down streets that it is either physically impossible or illegal to go down.

It managed this twice at the weekend - on Saturday, trying to get from the westbound M4 to the drop-off point at Reading station it tried to tell me to turn right at a set of lights at which right turns were prohibited, and go down a one-way street the wrong way; on Sunday, in attempting to find Broad Street in Oxford (where I had arranged to pick up Mrs B) from the A420, it caused me to stray inadvertently into a bus-only lane, for which I expect I shall, in due course, receive a request for £30 with the city council's compliments. (I could at this point make some pretty sharp remarks about misleading signposting, that one could swear was intended to be a trap for the unwary or those unfamiliar with the city, but that's another story).

Given that neither restriction appeared to be of recent origin, I can only conclude that either the TomTom people are using very out-of-date maps, or their software can't or doesn't take account of access restrictions. This is not much help when you want the thing to help you find somewhere that is unfamiliar to you, frankly.

I bought my TomTom so that I could get to where I needed to go without having to fiddle around with A-Z maps and the like (of which I have a driver's door pocket full) and concentrate on the traffic instead, so this sort of thing spoils what is otherwise a useful (and clever) bit of kit, which is a shame.
Pratnav strikes again - Brian Tryzers
It's not just satnavs - only last summer, ViaMichelin (which I usually find pretty sound) gave me a route in Birmingham including a right turn I knew was impossible, being off a dual carriageway where there's no gap in the reservation. Whether the fault lies in the underlying map data or in the software that interprets it, I have no idea.
Pratnav strikes again - rtj70
TomTom like Navman, Garmin, etc. all by the most recent map data for a given product but it can take many months to get to the market by which time it's old. And there are only two global mapping companies in this business - Navteq and TeleAtlas.

Furthermore the mapping companies will only update maps after they check the data with their own drivers/vehicles. The upshot is some data is a lot more out of date than others. I would think it is safe to hazard a guess they check some areas more frequently than others.

As for the situation with Iran and the sailors/marines - the "border" for the area changes with the river as it silts up etc. There is currently no agreed line but most sources say the Brits were well within the Iraqi side. Who knows but hope they are treating them well.
Pratnav strikes again - Kiwi Gary
I had a similar problem last August with my New Zealand based Navman whilst trying to find a hotel in Naples. The local Council had changed the one-way system, and I ended up in a very narrow street leading to the local Army barracks. Whilst I was sitting just outside the gates manually running the map across the Navman screen to try to navigate myself out, several other cars arrived at the same point, obviously as confused as me. As they included such august marques as Mercs, Beamers, etc, I had to assume that the mapmakers had not, by then, released the updates. The guards must have seen it all before, as they kept coming out of the guardhouse to view the procession of lost souls.

Apart from that glitch, my Navman behaved very well.

Pratnav strikes again - Altea Ego
I tired to get the satnav to take me to a hotel on the southern Paris suburbs. Trouble was they had changed the road from one way to two ways, and blocked off one end. The satnav tried to get me in the blocked end.

According to TomTom tim this was the *ONLY* way to get there being a one way street. (he thought)

------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Pratnav strikes again - henry k
1. No driver and especially not a coach bus driver should EVER set off on a journey
without being aware of the route they will be following in at least general terms.

>>
And truck drivers

Sat-nav lorry trapped in village
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/6283306.stm

I just happened to finish up in this village to watch Le Tour.
I saw said truck waiting for the parked cars to disperse as I was returning to my distant parked Mondeo.
As the through road had been blocked off to allow the Tour to pass at the next junction all the verges and one side of the road were turned into parking spaces.

To be fair there must have been a lot of routes out of action due to so many roads being closed for several hours.
Pratnav strikes again - Martin Devon
Be Oi Berkshire? Be Oi ****ery! Oi be up from Fareham.
Oi got gaiters on moi legs and Oi knows how to wear'em. (Upside down probably).
I always knew it as Wareham and the second line to be.."Where all the girls wear Calico drawers, but I knows 'ow to tear 'em!!


Tee hee..MD
 

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