None of my friends/relatives are happy with either Merc or Audi. Every one has multiple reliability problems!!!
But I heard that pre 1999 Merc models were more reliable than current Merc models.
I personally feel if I ever want to get a brand image, I'll buy Lexus any day over Merc/Audi.
|
None of my friends/relatives are happy with either Merc or Audi. Every one has multiple reliability problems!!! But I heard that pre 1999 Merc models were more reliable than current Merc models. I personally feel if I ever want to get a brand image, I'll buy Lexus any day over Merc/Audi.
Same here! My friend has just got shot of his Mercedes 'E' class that he bought new 4 years ago. He sold it with 48k on the clock. He'd hankered after a Merc. all his motoring life, after owning, latterly, 4 BMW's (all new). The Merc. was a litany of recalls and minor, irritating electrical problems that gave him a feeling of insecurity particularly when embarking on his favourite long continental journeys. All this, allied with poor, indifferent customer service only exacerbated the Mercedes experience.
He has now part exchanged it for a brand new 5 series BMW 525SE and now says that he is now experiencing 'real' quality again after the 'Bling' sensation that Mercedes seem to offer now. Whether he'll ever master the i-drive control system is another matter!
|
>>being probably the only person on the planet who doesn't think the A4 interior is good quality albeit dull.<<
I would think there are a few more than one.
I for one do not think Audi set the interior quality standard in the class anymore but in fairness the A4 is getting on a bit now. The Lexus IS, 3 series and even the Accord fair better IMO.
A colleague had a 2 day test drive of an RS4 this week and afetr a couple of trips in the car I have to say I was not impressed with the interior quality. The rest of the car was pretty amazing though.
I'm sure when they repalce the A4 it will get better - but as we have all said the quality needs to filter through to all the mechanicals/electricals as well.
|
|
|
|
>> Just an update on a thread subject I brought up a >> while back after seeing how rubbish the A4 interior is for >> quality. >> You certainly like to be different, being probably the only person on the planet who doesn't think the A4 interior is good quality albeit dull. People who hate Audi still usually acknowledge this fact. If you dont like the quality of the A4 interior what would actually get your seal of approval, maybe they should have hand caved the dash from Icelandic Black Granite with Burmese Mahogany inlays and used only the wool from Siberian Yaks to make the carpets !
>>
I am a hard marker on interior quality for very good reason - as car valeter, I spend alot of time inside cars cleaning and opening/closing things, moving seats etec etc. I also see these cars over a period of time and use aswell.
For me, the marker of mainstream quality ( not design ) is the Merc 190 - I used to clean a G-reg one with 120k - well used as the school run car and not exactly loved for the most part BUT when cleaned up it looked like a car that had done 30k. Absolutely everything worked, leather was still barely creased and all the trim was hardwearing and suitable for its purpose.
I then compare this to a 2003 C-Class Merc and a 2006 A4 that I clean which are already showing signs of premature wear.
The C-Class is trimmed in hard brittle plastics at anything below eyelevel and many bits of trim have come adift. The leather looks cheap, the chrome is plastic, rust spots are appearing all over it and the alloys are corroding badly. Its a well looked after car, driven well by a middle aged woman - its not an abuse case by any means.
The Audi isnt nearly as bad BUT the choice of trim materials is impractical - the boot carpet is thin and easily damaged and the choice of fake alu trim on the centre console cheapens it considerably - in a Ford ok, not in an Audi. Its the durability of the Audi interior that ive been disappointed with because in the past, I had thought they were one of teh benchmarks for midrange cars.
What annoys me most is that the Mondeo, which is considerably cheaper, isnt noticably behind Audi except in price - Mondeo carpets are softer so take abuse much better and the bootcarpet is thick and tough. The rest of the trim doesnt seem downmarket either. Quality to me is about substance, not 'the look'. I should point out that I loath everything a Mondeo stands for ( utter dullness ) so this is no advert for the Mondeo on my part. The Audi should be leagues ahead of much cheaper cars - thats what something being more expensive is supposed to be about.
|
I can certainly agree on the quality of the Merc 190! I'm reluctantly trading mine in next Sat. for a new car which I'm looking forward to but I will definately miss the solid build of a proper Stutgart Merc. which still runs perfectly and looks new after 18 years!
|
|
Its a shame that nobody can quite duplicate how Merc built cars in the 80's. They ARE build quality and instead of buying the latest cars from their rivals to assess, maybe they should all have a 190 is their quality departments for reference?
|
|
Brilliant cars those 190E's - more than a few people have regretted parting with those. Doesn't have the 'build quality' of the latest models (no fancy dash materials or rubberised surfaces - LOL!) - but better put together!
|
Yes, I had a 190E a few years ago and have found myself looking misty-eyed at a few nice examples recently. I sold mine to my brother with almost 200k miles and he had it for a couple of years - I like to think it's still going with over 250k on the clock. Mechanically superb quality, interior very good but looks dated now.
As for Audi quality my A4 is almost 7 years old and still looks almost new inside and out. I had it washed yesterday by a team of valeters in our local multi-storey car park and I was amazed by how shiny the (black) paint still is! Absolutely no signs of wear inside.
|
As for Audi quality my A4 is almost 7 years old and still looks almost new inside and out. I had it washed yesterday by a team of valeters in our local multi-storey car park and I was amazed by how shiny the (black) paint still is! Absolutely no signs of wear inside.
For me its the A4s of the last few years that have disappointed - certainly the older ones do seem better. I think as they revise cars, often they try to cut costs in the process so the first generation can often better the current - look at the Golf and the press seem to agree that the latest one isnt quite the quality product the previous model was in terms of build - thats not my words but those of journos.
|
|
|
|
You certainly like to be different, being probably the only person on the planet who doesn't think the A4 interior is good quality albeit dull. People who hate Audi still usually acknowledge this fact.
I've driven a couple of A4's and can't see what the fuss was about: it seemed to be no better than the Octavia i had at the time, unless you count damped cup holders. It was very cramped as well, very claustrophobic.
|
Its quite simple really, how many tidy early 90's Mercs, Bemmers and Audi's do you see one the roads now, **** loads
Find me a eqivalent ford vauxhall which hasnt got bits falling off, rusting through, or blue smoking
|
>>Its quite simple really, how many tidy early 90's Mercs, Bemmers and Audi's do you see one the roads now, **** loads<<
You do have a good point Tim and it's a shame that this quality that was in place during the early 90's is not there anymore and has been replaced by cost cutting in a drive for improved profits. A very short term view IMO becuase it was the better quality that differentiated these cars and sold them. Now the balance has swung the other way and we hear bosses of German car companies going public saying that their quality is not good enough. Fortunatley there exists a car buying population in the UK that will buy on previous form and not current - hence they continue to sell well.
|
>>Its quite simple really, how many tidy early 90's Mercs, Bemmers and Audi's do you see one the roads now, **** loads<<
>>You do have a good point Tim and it's a shame that this quality that was in place during the early 90's is not there anymore and has been replaced by cost cutting in a drive for improved profits. A very short term view IMO becuase it was the better quality that differentiated these cars and sold them. Now the balance has swung the other way and we hear bosses of German car companies going public saying that their quality is not good enough. Fortunatley there exists a car buying population in the UK that will buy on previous form and not current - hence they continue to sell well
Our economy is stronger than in the early '90s. There is more social mobility. People will pay for thin air if it's well marketed. Reputations take decades to make and break - I don't think Merc will ever lose their reputation, no matter how bad their cars get, for example. Also, expectations are higher of premium brands so you'd complain more if it went wrong!
|
|
|
|
Its quite simple really, how many tidy early 90's Mercs, Bemmers and Audi's do you see one the roads now, **** loads Find me a eqivalent ford vauxhall which hasnt got bits falling off, rusting through, or blue smoking
Your quite right in what you are saying, but there are also loads of pink fluffy dice from this trio out there as well, just look on any inner city council estate. No matter how well built the car, if it is not looked after by later owners it won't last the distance.
Alot of owners fortunately take pride in ownership of these cars and it shows, also I reckon that many 'comfortably off' upper middle class type owners don't get taken in by having to buy the latest models every other year, and opt instead to buy a quality car and keep it for years. I know of several £600k properties near me, the owners of which drive such (immaculate) cars. Personally I reckon they are totally right with their priorities!
|
The reason I say that is that I drive a very tidy Audi 80 L reg, cost 450 two years ago and spent 500 in two years on bits and bobs. I find that OK, and I wouldnt say it drove like a new car but it is very refined for its 14 year old age and reasonably cheap to run (25-30 mpg). However I cannot fault the biuld, all panels still solid, a bit of paint fade to pink on boot lid but no visible rust at all on exterior.
My boss drives a W reg Bora TDI, drives it like **** and claims to have never washed it in nearly 3 years. Result, smokey engine and rust like you have never seen it.
I personally fall in the category on washing and mini valet every sunday, hope to keep the Audi at least ten years
|
I think the only thing keeps premium brand cars on the road for longer is that the owners are happy to spend more money on maintaining them than they would a Ford or Vaux.
My car is 8 years old with 110K on the clock but this month it had a full main dealer service and a local garage sorted out a few niggles, if my car was a Ford of similar vintage then it would be lucky to get an oil change never mind a proper service. In my experience a well looked after early 90's Mondeo is in just as good nick as a well cared for Beemer of similar age. At the same time, I see plenty of rotting Beemers of the same age that are clearly in uncaring hands.
Blue
|
Fords?
My Ford Capri 2.8i is 22 years old, goes like new and has barely a spot of corrosion (paintwork better than modern MBs). It has been protected by being garaged for 13 of those years while my back wouldn't allow me to get in it, let alone drive it, but it has nevertheless done 74k (15k since restoration 09/03, with no problems).
It started out as my company car and I liked it so much that I bought it when it came up for sale, so it's had one driver all its life, and that driver likes taking care of things. That applies to my old MBs too. I'm looking forward to the Capri's 30th birthday, and then some.
No, I'm not rich, and the cars are the one indulgence in a fairly frugal lifestyle.
|
|
I wish I was more like you RJ, and I really do mean it as a compliment.
|
Speaking as someone who has just bought a C4 after 2 Mercs (C270 Est. and E320 Est.), I think that the way that car manufacturing operates these days, and having seen a few car factories in my time (from Dagenham to Zuffenhausen), the cost of producing a car to a certain specification must be pretty similar, assuming the company is doing it's job properly. (And if it wasn't doing it's job properly it will have gone the way of Rover).
So the difference is price probably comes down to the marketing costs - from the glossy ads to the big shiny showrooms. I was amazed when I saw MB Milton Keynes - the overheads the poor sales staff have to pay for must be horrendous! (this dealership not being owned by MB themselves, unlike say Brooklands).
Yes, my Mercs were finished nicer superficially in many ways than the other cars I've driven, but they suffered more problems than I've had in the cars that preceeded them, and the depreciation on the E was steep despite it having the 'right spec' (I bought it at 1 month/300 miles old at £10k off list!)
|
Traditionally (i.e. 8-10+ years ago) MB residuals were shored-up by two things; (a) restricted supply from the factory, and (b) a thriving used RHD export market to the Far East - mainly Malaysia.
Nowadays the corporate HQ is pushing the dealers to sell as many cars as they can and the used export market has withered. Couple this with cars that have become much more expensive to fix when they go wrong (a lot of electronics compared with the older models), and the rust problem, and you can see why MB residuals have dropped back sharply.
As to the Brooklands operation - well, I really can't see the point of that. As I noted before, the remaining non-MB-owned dealers are being forced to make multi-million investments just to remain as franchisees - the overhead costs must be absolutely phenomenal. I wouldn't like to be in their shoes in a year or two if things take a downturn.
|
|
I thought all MB dealers were controlled by MB now - is that not the case ?
|
I thought all MB dealers were controlled by MB now - is that not the case ?
A lot, but not all.
|
As far as I can tell, the relatively new MB dealer on Pride Park in Derby is controlled by Inchcape - which along with their new Toyota and Lexus dealerships (and I'm sure there are others) means they have quite an empire in this part of town.
Number_Cruncher
|
|
Quality costs and if only 75% of buyers will pay for it in new models, they need cut costs. Marketing is so big-budget because the brand its what enables them to stretch quality into perceived quality. A gucci handbag may cost 30% more to make, [I'll happily take the expertise of anyone who can contradict me, but you take my point...] but its branding allows a mark up of 75%. Job done. It's probably the same with Mercs and BMWs. It happens from coffee and biros up to private planes, and no doubt beyond.
|
|
I think the only thing keeps premium brand cars on the road for longer is that the owners are happy to spend more money on maintaining them than they would a Ford or Vaux.
I agree, and posted something similar in the Honda / Vauxhall thread.
Take SWMBO's Fiesta as a classic example. It's a decade old this year and has done the best part of 100,000 miles. Fiestas have their fans, but few people would disagree that when they get to this age they are basically cheap, disposable bangers requiring constant patching up. However, this particular one is still a cracking car.
It's rust free (really!)
It's tight to drive with very positive steering, confidence inspiring brakes and no interior rattles
The engine (1.4 Zetec) still pulls strongly, revs sweetly, has no knocks or rattles, and uses half a litre of oil every 4-5k
The only thing I am aware that's wrong with it is a failed segment in the LCD clock making 17:00 look like 11:00 - must get that sorted out!)
It's reliable enough that I'm using it for my 70 mile daily commute because SWMBO needs the Mondeo.
It's giving me 42 mpg despite the odd trip up towards the redline.
It has a few light scratches and marks consistent with 10 years of use, but the paint is still glossy and the car cleans up beautifully
The reason is not that a 1997 Fiesta is some kind of fabulous, best in class wondercar, but that this particular example has been properly looked after, and serviced on the dot by (clearly a good) main agent thanks to two previous owners who clearly cared for it. At 80k when we bought it, it had clearly been used, but came with a fully stamped service book and an inch thick wodge of invoices which documented every spare part ever fitted to the car, and every fluid poured into it. The kind of thing you'd expect a Mercedes, BMW or something "a bit special" to come with (and arguably wouldn't buy without), but rarely get with an older Ford.
While I refuse to pay dealer rates, I have since kept up the service schedule religiously using Ford parts and doing the work myself, and it just doesn't look or feel tired in the slightest. In fact our Mondeo which is 3 years newer looks and feels 10 years older.
It's not the car, it's how it's treated. People will spend out on cars with higher residuals. People won't run to the time, hassle or expense on a car worth a couple of grand. Well, I will, but I suspect I'm in a minority.
Cheers
DP
|
>>Marketing is so big-budget because the brand its what enables them to stretch quality into perceived quality.<<
Is that why Audis are so expensive then - to pay for the Audi channel being broadcast on UK TV.
And also to pay Audi for giving away cars to the stars such as the Man Utd football team etc.
|
|
Yes. I remember seeing a figure about ten years ago that the price of a new Saab included about £800 (yes, eight hundred pounds) to cover the cost of advertising and other marketing. It's true throughout the 'luxury goods' market - Gucci handbags, Omega watches, high-end cosmetics - I'm sure you can think of more.
|
Yes. I remember seeing a figure about ten years ago that the price of a new Saab included about £800 (yes, eight hundred pounds) to cover the cost of advertising and other marketing.
I've seem similar numbers of the same sort of order for Ford, so it's not just 'luxury goods'.
|
|
Is that why Audis are so expensive then - to pay for the Audi channel being broadcast on UK TV.
They're wasting their money.
Having watched several programmes on the channel, I came to the inescapable conclusion that all their mechanics are capable of doing is plugging a laptop into a diagnostic slot and scratching their heads.
Not encouraging.
--
Stevie
Lakland 44-02 Sunburst
Yamaha YTS-23
|
And the road side assistance bloke just tells them to take it to the dealer - even though they have done so already and it broke down again.
It's sad that I know that really becuase it shows I've watched the channel.
|
|
How spooky is that I just posted the thread above and the Audi breakdown van is parked opposite fixing the neighbour's new audi that he cannot get started.
|
Not so much spooky as implausible. Seriously, cardriver/type, stretching the facts is one things, now you're starting to stretch the imagination in your anti-VAG grudge borathon. As I said before. Get. Over. It.
BTW type I've just caught the end of the last thread on VW quality and can assure you that if your mates reckon that the Phaeton and A8 share the same platform, or the 4.2tdi is just the standard 3.0tdi with a couple of cylinders bolted on, then they're either flat wrong telling you porkies or you're writing yourself a script. I know where my money would go.
Google is your friend. Plug in Phaeton A8 and find out the facts. If I'm wrong then please post me some links and I'll gladly eat humble pie.
|
Wow !!!!!
I think you need help Martin.
|
|
Is that why Audis are so expensive then - to pay for the Audi channel being broadcast on UK TV. And also to pay Audi for giving away cars to the stars such as the Man Utd football team etc.
Damm ! If I'd known this I may not have bought my new Audi !
|
|
Nor would I! Advertising and marketing is just part of life. Ford sponsor footy on Sky, would a Focus cost thousands less if they didn't? Vodaphone sponsor nearly every sport going - if they didn't would their mobiles and calls be free?
|
>> And also to pay Audi for giving away cars to the >> stars such as the Man Utd football team etc. >> Damm ! If I'd known this I may not have bought my new Audi !
There was a bit a kerfuffle when Beckham put £20K worth of options on 'his' aleady top of the range Q7 - Audi gives all the Barcelona players cars.
|
|
Wasn't it said that 70% of the cost of a tube of toothpaste is marketing? But no marketing, no sales at all!
|
|
And no toothpaste --> no teeth!
|
To assert that the bigger the advertising spend the bigger the rip-off on sale seems to me to be bogus. VAG has the 20th largest global advertising expenditure, I think $1.5bn, and this assertion would dictate that the products of any group with an advertising spend more than this are even more of a rip-off than VAG products, and those with less expenditure, less of a rip off. I don't see that relationship existing.
Type/cardriver one of us needs help alright. One of us sees an Audi breakdown vehicle outside his window 2 minutes after he's blathering on about Audi breakdowns on a forum and is surrounded by only by VAG consumers who are plagued with problems. The same person can't provide a single fact to support his assertions (still waiting on your link), and continues to rail incessantly about one particular make of car. If you have something constructive and supportable on this subject why don't you bring to the forum instead of all these cheap shots and unsubstantiated statements? As I told you last year, you need to let go of this and changing your forum name isn't doing it if you don't change the record.
|
I've had 4 Audis - A4, two A4s & A6, over the period 1997 - 2004 (with a couple of Mercs making the 'sandwich')
- German cars (excluding the excellent Germanesque Skoda Superb I had) are the only ones to have
broken down or needed major work, both in & outside of warranty. Just my experience.
I've bought my last VAG or Merc - can't say about BMW (although my Mini Cooper of 2002 wasn't fault/hassle free either)
or Porsche - on the basis of this.
|
|
So if they were so troublesome, why stick with them for so long. Addicted to the marketing hype by any chance?
|
Addicted to the marketing hype by any chance?
Now reformed!
|
If you have something constructive and supportable on this subject why don't you bring to the forum instead <<
Martin - please find extracts from the wall street journal and wards auto world below. There are literally hundreds of these articles on the web when searching google. (But I'm sure they are all wrong in your view).
I hope this clarify's the situation for you.
It does not matter that you bought the wrong car - they do not last for ever - you can change it soon.
(PS I am not Type by the way but he is watching !)
The key statement for me is "VW is suffering a buyer backlash of its own for spinning VWs, Audis, SEATs and Skodas off identical architecture2.
Extract from the Wall Street Journal.
"But basing several models on the same chassis, transmission and other components - collectively known as the platform can create the impression that many of a company's cars are the same. In VW's case, some consumers wonder, why pay more for Volkswagen's premier Audi brand, when you can get much of the same technology more cheaply in a VW or even a Seat or a Skoda?
The result: confusion about VW's model strategy and the prospect of lower profit as VW's four main brands face competition with one another as well as with fellow German auto maker Bayerische Motoren Werke AG and General Motors Corp.'s German unit Adam Opel AG."
Wards auto world extract
"Of course, skeptics contend that the switch away from "platforms" to "component sets" may be as much about semantics as engineering. Investors love to hear talk of platform sharing - maximizing the use of engineering resources and sharing parts across lines cuts costs, and that's music to the ears of market analysts.
But consumers are becoming savvier, and some are asking, "Why pay more for an Audi when it's the same underneath as the far less expensive Skoda?" So putting the word out that there's a shift away from common platforms to more strategic component sharing may be the industry's way of trying to have its cake and eat it too.
Automobile Industry Overview
Now just when you would expect VW to start sitting back and reaping the rewards of its brilliant platform strategy, the VW Chairman has announced the company is shifting gears again. Instead of bragging about VW's leadership, he's eschewing the term "platform" for "modules" and promises this new strategy will yield bigger, better benefits than its previous course.
Critics say VW may have outsmarted itself. Its cost-cutting strategy to trim the number of platforms down from 16 eight years ago to just four today has backfired on the German automaker in much the same way that it did for GM in the 1980s with its look-alike cars that crossed divisional lines. VW is suffering a buyer backlash of its own for spinning VWs, Audis, SEATs and Skodas off identical architecture. Its small A-platform, for example, is used on no fewer than eight models, from the VW Beetle and Golf to the Audi A4 and TT, Skoda Octavia and SEAT Toledo.
|
Type, thanks for proving my point as your press quotes exemplify exactly the lack of substance that is lies behind your statements. These vacuous snippets could have been written by a fashion editor, being nothing more than opinions, as valid as anyone's but still no more or less than opinions. It?s telling of the quality of the journals quoted that contrary to what they state, profit is dramatically up at VAG following restructuring, buyer backlash appears to take the form of year on year record breaking global sales growth and the old A platform was superceded in 2003 by the PQ35 and the A4 does not in fact share this or any other platform. These are not errors in my view but errors in fact. There is not a single statement of fact here, never mind any evidence to support your bogus bling comment or anything you've had to say on the A8. The most telling statements being "some consumers wonder", ? some consumers are asking?, "can create the impression" "critics say". Opinion.
BTW I'd be interested to read more of these articles, so I would be grateful if you could provide links as well as well as the link to the reliability index that you quoted and I asked you for last week. So again, if you have any of the pertinent supportable facts to support your statements, then please present them, failing that I'll take it that your original statement was based in fact but wild speculation.
FWIW, I didn't buy my car, I chose it and it's predecessor after extensively driving several cars including the best of what the Japanese had to offer. For me, my last 3 cars have been a joy to spend time in, done their job fantastically and haven't let me down once and with hand on heart I couldn't have said that about most of the cars I drove, including the Honda or Lexus.
BTW type, you stated this last week "when the chief of a company comes out and states that their quality is sub standard then if those parts are shared on other brands then surley the same must be true across the brands." and I disagreed. Woodbine's experiences with a Skoda Superb and old shape A4 and A6, which share not only common components and engines but at least 2 of them have common floorpans, shows clearly that component commonality does not dictate common reliability in the vehicles that share them.
Type, I don?t mind if you?ve got multiple forum identities but I do wish that you?d give it a rest and stop ranting about VAG and concocting a fantastical world where you and everyone you know drives or has driven VAG products and as a result spends their horrid lives waiting in for Audi breakdown vans.
I?d appreciate those links please.
|
Actually you can forget about the links for your last post as I've just realized that they were just a cut and paste from an article from March 2001 - findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_2001_March...1.
This kind of explains the numerous errors, why you deleted Ferdinand Piech's name and why the entire premise made no sense. If you're going to lift stuff like this you should check the facts. The entire article in context also goes on to show a more balanced account of the state of platform sharing 6 years ago than your quotes would have one believe. I'm guessing that your reliability index quote is similarly flawed but I would still like to see to satisfy my curiosity.
|
So if they were so troublesome, why stick with them for so long. Addicted to the marketing hype by any chance?
Dead simple really, although they have their little troubles as all marques do, the feeling of a quality drive more than makes up for this. I have driven many cars over the years and have had brand new Vauxhalls and Fords, which whilst being okay, soon loose their 'newness' after a few months. You start getting the odd clunk from the suspension and the odd vibration from the interior trim. Some people may not be bothered by this and I say, fine, but to me this is a pain to live with.
In fact people who drive 'quality' cars are known for being more demanding and as such any problems that do occur tend to be somewhat amplified because after all if you've just spent 20-30K on a car as opposed to 8-10K you tend to get fractious when there is a problem.
In 15 years of driving the German marques as company cars and now as an owner, I have never had more than 1 minor problem on any of my cars in a 3 yr period. A couple of my cars I have had no problems at all with. Probably the most serious problem I have ever had was a noisy front wheel bearing on my current car aftre 2 1/2 years and 40K miles, which didn't cause a breakdown and was fixed in a day.
I am willing to live with this level of reliability as opposed to driving a Japanese car personally !
|
In 15 years of driving the German marques as company cars and now as an owner, I have never had more than 1 minor problem on any of my cars in a 3 yr period. A couple of my cars I have had no problems at all with. Probably the most serious problem I have ever had was a noisy front wheel bearing on my current car aftre 2 1/2 years and 40K miles, which didn't cause a breakdown and was fixed in a day.
I think you've been pretty lucky. Most of the German marques are no more or less reliable than the average Ford these days (that's not a criticism of Ford, because they are pretty good now).
In terms of Audi quality/reliability, well its an indisputable fact that a large number of components used on these cars are exactly the same as used on VAG, SEAT, Skoda models. Again, that's not a criticism. Due to consolidation of the European component supply industry its increasingly the case that the wiring loom on your Merc is made in the same factory using the same materials as the wiring loom in your Vectra - and the factory is in Hungary!
|
MS- for someone who finds me boring and also believes I do not type the truth - you really do have alot to say.
I have only quickly read the posts you made above as I do find your posts very long and boring and can't be bothered so I have probably missed loads of what you have said.
But I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I will post the links - I was actually trying to save bandwidth as there were so many supporting my view - I was spoilt for choice - and it seems reading on I am not alone with this view.
As the man say's it's not really a criticism.
I appreciate your paranoia with the multiple forum identity's but I am not who you think although he will be back at the end of April (hopefully).
I hope you continue to enjoy the Skaudi.
(I think I typed VAG platform sharing into google - so if you want to feel free)
|
LOL
It's not a case of disagreeing son, I've presented the facts. All that you've presented a desire to pull a fast one by cutting some sections from an old 2001 article, which you and I discussed in a thread last year. You then proceeded to edit make it's vintage less obvious and which you then pasted in an attempt to substantiate what is simply a bogus assertion which not one single contributor supported. This MO is basically dishonest and in any other sphere of life you'd be sanctioned for this kind of chicanery. If you don't understand the subject, and that much is clear, then just leave it alone rather than fabricating references.
|
Yet in all your repsonse you have never presented anything that contradicts the fact that VAG platform share across their model range. I see no logic in your repsonses only personal criticism that does not make sense.
Your arguments are totally singular when I read other posts on this subject.
I am honestly at a loss in terms of your accusations of re-typing stuff.
You may well LOL SON but you are clearly quiet disturbed in your obsession to defend your skaudi - as I say it does not matter.
With respect to your other obsession that me and type are the same person - well a few facts for you.
The guy introduced me to this site before going on a tour of duty to try and protect idiots like you and I - he is a family member so we probably share similar views on motoring matters (as well me using his ISP in his absence).
Your total disrespect for people without knowing the facts is appalling.
Personally I no longer wish to try and discuss issues on this forum and as for you - Go to hell sweeney.
Maybe type will get in touch for a drink on his return.
Carry on and type what you like in your obsessive manner but I will not be reading anything else on this site.
The people who post here are shameful.
I'm sure my username will be removed anyway after this.
|
Carry on and type what you like in your obsessive manner but I will not be reading anything else on this site.
Oh well.
|
>>>> but I will not be reading anything else on this site.
Half-term over ?
|
Ok you two, enough please.
If you wish to carry on your squabble, I am more than happy to pass on one anothers email addresses so that you can carry on in the privacy of your own living rooms, and not in the presence of everyone elses.
DD.
|
Quite right, just what I was about to say. Im a critic like most people but if someone comes up with good evidence that what I drive might have some flaws, I dont get into a slanging match over it, I do my own research and look to change my views if required. Anyone half intelligent could pick holes in my Suzuki van as in some respects, its woeful, but Im grown up enough to realise its shortcomings.
Just an aside - are VAG cars like Alfas in that you buy/own with the heart?
I ask because I never imagined they would have owners so passionate about them, although if someone gave me an A8 I think id prob tuck it in at night ( had one parked in my street tonite and it looked gorgeous ), so maybe they are?
|
Thanks, DD and Stu, for getting an interesting thread back on track.
I think there's a lot of truth in the 'heart' argument - but a different sort of heart, the sort that likes the perception of quality (and in my case at least, the reality - in fact there are more satisfied Audi and VW owners out there than some of the comments on this forum imply). The Alfisto heart is the 'appassionata' variety who loves the Latin way of driving and puts up with the fragility of the loved one.
But there's a 'head' argument too - the lower rate of depreciation which is one reason why I've had 3 german wagens in a row.
|
I think you've been pretty lucky. Most of the German marques are no more or less reliable than the average Ford these days (that's not a criticism of Ford, because they are pretty good now).
I agree, but this wasn't the point I was trying to make. What I was saying is that I will acknowledge that the German premium marques (especially Merc) are no more reliable than anything else, but the overall quality feel and experience is what keeps people on board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
