One rule for them... as usual.
Suprised the anti-speed lobby haven't jumped on this one yet. Hardly shows a good example no matter how 'good' his driving abilities.
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No more convictions for racing drivers caught speeding then! They have skills and abilities that we can actually see, rather than a bit of paper issued to a man by his own police force. Plenty of material here for Mr Loophole or whatever that solicitor is known as by the tabloids.
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I can see the logic. He wasn't done for speeding (which is an objective offence) but for dangerous driving (which is subjective). As the judge effectively said, just becuase he was doing 159mph, doesn't mean to say he was dangerous.
Actually I think that speeding should not be the offence, but driving too fast for the conditions appertaining at the time. As we have said many times before, 50mph past a school at 11pm is likely to be OK, but 20mph at 3:30pm is positively stupid.
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if he has extraordinary driving skills why is he not earning millions in F1
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also, does that mean that if we all get grade 1 advanced driving qualifications we can ignore the speed limit whenever we want?
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the debate ought to be about... how does an individual in this officer's position familiarise himself with a new vehicle... because he wouldn't want to wait until he had a pursuit to find out that he was unsure of the characteristics of a particular model
common sense would dictate he could go to a racing circuit, on a weekday when the costs were low and blast around that........but of course that would cost money wouldn't it
we expect high standards, we expect an immediate response to emergencies, we expect the bad guys to be pursued and caught... and yet he could recieve his training 20 years ago and then receive next to nothing since
i'll stick my neck out and say i think it was a good idea for him to stretch the performance of that vehicle at a time and place of his choosing...so that when the circs were otherwise he'd have a fighting chance of getting it right
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the debate ought to be about... how does an individual in this officer's position familiarise himself with a new vehicle... because he wouldn't want to wait until he had a pursuit to find out that he was unsure of the characteristics of a particular model
I think the debate should be about whether or not his driving was dangerous. I have no issue with the police speeding, although I thought they were only allowed to do so in an emergency. If he wants to do 150 mph on a clear motorway, that is fine by me. But wasn't he doing absurdly high speeds on normal roads? I have a big problem with a police driver driving in a manner that could kill an innocent bystander. Given that I have not seen the evidence, and I am not a trained driver, I have no idea if his driving was okay or not.
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50mph past a schoolat 11pm is likely to be OK, but 20mph at 3:30pm is positively stupid.
Are you sure Espada? 20mph is very slow in a modern car with working brakes. I think you are exaggerating here.
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20 mph at chucking-out time past any school I can think of is well-nigh impossible. I wonder if any of the journos who routinely trot this out as an example of inappropriate speed have ever bothered to look!
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Yes, during the course of an advanced driving course/assessment, the instructor was very complimentary about my driving skills. Presumably the resultant piece of paper would be acceptible when waved in front of the judge and I should be OK for, say, 120mph?
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I agree 100% with Espada, a 15mph limit past a school between 8am and 9 am / 3pm and 4pm with a 40 or 50 limit at other times makes much more sense than a blanket 30 limit 24/7.
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159mph policeman - conviction overturned
original threads (which were locked) are here:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=31928&...f
159 mph Police Driver. LOCKED. - PR {P} Wed 18 May 05 14:42
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=32019
policeman caught doing 159mph gets off - barney100 Sun 22 May 05 09:51
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=38619&...f
159mph speeding offence reheard - Espada III {P} Wed 1 Feb 06 13:18
and the original telegraph coverage is here:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;?xml=/news/200...l
I was testing the car, says Pc clocked at 159mph
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;?xml=/news/200...l
159mph but policeman is given an absolute discharge
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Past some of the schools near me, 10 mph with your foor covering the brake pedal is too damn quick. The other week I did exactly that when some small child wriggled away from its mothers arms and rushed into the road about 8 yards in front of me. I stopped with 5 yards to spare, but the look the mother gave me indicated she though I had tried to murder her proginy.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Past some of the schools near me, 10 mph with your foor covering the brake pedal is too damn quick. she though I had tried to murder her proginy.
Sounds as if the parents in yr district need a bit of training at being pedestrians TVM... I have to say they aren't like that round here. They wouldn't let their nippers run into the road and very few nippers over the age of 2 will try to do it.
That said, an adenoidal adolescent damn nearly got me into trouble yesterday but stopped when he heard my tyres chirping...I do believe that 11-17 are the dangerous ages what with hormonal turmoil and peer pressure or lack of it.
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>>I agree 100% with Espada, a 15mph limit past a school between 8am and 9 am / 3pm and 4pm with a 40 or 50 limit at other times makes much more sense than >> a blanket 30 limit 24/7.
Cheddar,
That is where things go a bit wrong. Just because is says 30mph doesn't mean that you should drive 30mph if it is dangerous. If someone, taking your example, is driving past a school at 8.30am at 30mph or even 29mph and hits a kid, I think a court of law will still do them for dangerous/reckless driving or whatever it be.
A speed limit doesn't mean that that is the maximum speed that you can drive at while disregarding all other surrounding factors.
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A racing driver doesn't have people driving out of side roads, or traffic driving towards him, so the argument about comparitive skill doesn't hold up. He's a highly-skilled police driver, he won't retain these skills if he practices on a track, he needs real-life experience. The so-called offence happened in the middle of the night if I recall correctly, so it was at a time where traffic and pedestrians would be low. If I was in trouble and heard a siren in the distance I'd be hoping he was at the wheel, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I think envy is at the root of a lot of the complaints.
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Can any pursuit on public roads at a potential 150mph ever be justified? Sounds pretty dangerous to me, whatever time of day or night it might be. Does anyone have any recent statistics on injuries caused to innocent members of the public by police vehicles during pursuits? When I was a police press officer this was a matter of constant concern.
In France the majority of Gendarmes patrol in Renault minibuses or a variety of very ordinary cars and I don't think high speed pursuits are on their agenda. I wonder whether their conviction success rates are very much different than the UK?
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Can any pursuit on public roads at a potential 150mph ever be justified?
Usually no, it cant, and in real life if a pursuit got to those levels the control room would order the chase backed off.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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But sometimes you have to GET to the pursuit to bring it to a safe and successful conclusion in line with Pursuit Management tactics.
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Fullchat
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Still consider it dangerous to travel at that speed in the dark with limited forward vision.
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Fullchat
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i don't know how the police usually do things but, when they are training these drivers to get up to grade 1 standard - they surely don't expect them to go out on their own in the middle of the night for practice?
Was it not possible that he could notify his superiors that he wished to do this and to warn other police people to be aware that he would be speeding in a certain area at a certain time - isn't this how they normally train people? With an instructor.
Could he not have taken an instructor with him to assess the car with both of them driving -
Any of those actions would suggest to me that his driving and speeding were 'work-related' and justifiable - but bombing off on your Todd in the midle of the night? I don't know - does he have carte blanche to drive like that all the time now? Cos he's the best in the world?
8< SNIP! Some non motoring comments removed, and also the replies as well. Apologies if anything of worth got deleted in the process. DD.
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Important point to remember is he was bubbled by officers on the unit the car belonged too. They noticed the mileage was up, checked the video and reported it.
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It seems to me that if the other officers on the unit were prepared to grass on one of their collegues this indicates that this officer overstepped the mark beyond all reason,at the time this was initially being reported i'm sure you stated that there was more to this case than what was being reported,would you care to elaborate any further?
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"It seems to me that if the other officers on the unit were prepared to grass on one of their collegues this indicates that this officer overstepped the mark beyond all reason,at the time this was initially being reported i'm sure you stated that there was more to this case than what was being reported,would you care to elaborate any further?"
Errr...No! Case ongoing and then he's got internal discipline process.
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It seems to me that if the other officers on the unit were prepared to grass on one of their collegues this indicates that this officer overstepped the mark beyond all reason,
I would guess that coppers might overlook a minor indiscretion (since we are only human) but would report something serious as they must live with their consciounces.
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He's certainly a police officer with an unusual moustache - or do you think that was added digitally by a bored sub on the Telegraph photo desk?
He looks a bit like Inspector Jack Frost's segeant - wasis name on't telly.
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Or even Jack Frost's sergeant
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That's so true!!! He really does!
The moustache clipping suggests a perfectionist but with vanity in the ascendency -
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Obvioulsy a shaver of unusual skills.....(probably allowed to shave in the dark with no mirror)
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You wouldn't expect him to take his eyes off the road?
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>> He's certainly a police officer with an unusual moustache -
I thought it was illegal to be in possession of an offensive moustache ... maybe a legal expert will know.
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Not if you have unusual moustache handling skills
Section 3 (1) (a) of the Provincial Facial Hair Act. 1939 (as ammended by S38 of the Fungaloid Growth Act 1973)
.........Except with Lawful Authority or reasonable excuse an offence will committed, whereby a person or persons may trim or alter a natural facial growth, in a manner likely to offend, harras or alarm another person of reasonable firmness othe than by order of a Justice of a Peace or for Policing purposes/..
It's quite clear.
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