WillDeBeest makes some good points.
I would only compare similar cars with this, and look at the frequency of repairs and how much they cost separately.
So whereas you can compare say an Astra with a Focus (and an Astra with an Almera or Accent or whatever) the manufacturer comparisons are weak at best. That said, the like of Mitsubishi, Hyundai and Kia do sell a lot of 4x4s relative to their respective totals so if it were the case that Land Rover were near the bottom solely because of the cars they sell you'd expect these three to do badly as well.
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We own a C8, and it has had a couple fo electrical niggles, but no worse than a C-class I had and the E-class I currently have, and our experiences with it are not detering me from buying a C4 HDI.
Previous reliable Citroens of ours include BX GTi, BX TZD Estate, 2 ZX diesels and a 2CV (which we still have!)
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>>and the Citroen owners are nowhere to be found.
they're waiting for the AA
no - just kidding...
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The only survey that matters is your own experience of a particular car.
Until I get a duffer, I am happy to buy french. And as I've said before, the competence of your dealer makes a huge difference as well.
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Nothing wrong with Citroens. Of course we all have our prejudices. Mine favour Citroens and indeed French cars in general.
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"Citroen owners are nowhere to be found."
I'm here, just too smug to write anything :-)))
VW, anyone?
--
RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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At least four of the top ten manufacturers in this survey have plants in Britain turning out high volume models - Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Mini. So a good proportion of the most reliable cars must have been built in Britain. Now thre's food for thought.............
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"Citroen owners are nowhere to be found."
Hello!
-- He\'s a cheeky wind-up scamster and he\'s on the radio....
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Nothing wrong with Citroens. Of course we all have our prejudices. Mine favour Citroens and indeed French cars in general.
Me too. Bought our 19th Citroen, a 1.0 petrol AX, last October for The Lad to go to college in. The C3 takes Mrs H on her commute in all conditions. At 50K miles the rear discs are shot *again*. My C8 doubles as works van and family limo without complaint. With a friendly local dealer I've no incentive to go exploring other makes.
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
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Count me in too!
---
Xantia HDi. - Float on!
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Ex-Citroen owner found here...
Had a brilliant GS a long time ago but never bought another Citroen. Don't really know why. Certainly was very reliable.
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As a current PSA owner, I detest the design which tries to make everything as difficult as possible: like changing rear bulbs/design of disk pad retention system and genrally appalling and scatty wiring.
When I compare with Ford or Toyota, the latter two win hands down on "designed for ease of maintenance."
madf
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Ok - must hold my hand up and confess that my C5 has had a couple of desperately unreliable months! It started off in November losing coolant (apparently blown through the header tank cap) Dealer has refused to accept my suggestion that there might be a head gasket problem - but has fitted a new water pump, (+ timing belt) new radiator and new thermostat. (Dealer said Citroen had used wrong mixture of anti-freeze in early cars and it had crystallised in the radiator. (Eh?)
Handbrake was failing spasmodically, so new front NS caliper fitted. First week of the new year I had a puncture on the wheel that was removed to fit the new caliper (!!) Dealer had tightened the nuts so tightly I bent the wheelbrace trying to remove it - had to call the breakdown out to change the tyre. New tyre fitted. Following week, car wouldn't start - flat battery - new battery fitted. Week after that - message appeared on dash 'Coolant level low' (yes- after all that cooling system work!) Topped it up twice in a week - yet since then hasn't lost any more!!) This was followed by a message 'Diesel Additive Minimum Level' (shouldn't be - EOLYS was refilled 15,000 miles ago!) This has yet to be investigated. Last week - I got off lightly with a brake bulb out!
The bill to the dealer was £793. New Tyre was around £80, battery was another £40.
I'm still not convinced the coolant system is fixed - monitoring the situation.
So when all this blew up I went off and had a test drive in a Mondeo - then an Accord. That was all it took to persuade me to have the C5 fixed even if it did turn out to be costly. I simply couldn't find anything to touch it for comfort, quietness, interior space and (refined) economy.
There's something about Citroens that rots the brain..............
Graeme
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"There's something about Citroens that rots the brain.............."
Graeme,
You'd be a lost cause if you hit the red stuff as well ...................like me!
--
Phil
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Ok - must hold my hand up and confess that my C5 has had a couple of desperately unreliable months! It started off in November losing coolant (apparently blown through the header tank cap) Dealer has refused to accept my suggestion that there might be a head gasket problem - but has fitted a new water pump, (+ timing belt) new radiator and new thermostat. (Dealer said Citroen had used wrong mixture of anti-freeze in early cars and it had crystallised in the radiator. (Eh?)
So, does the wrong mixture apply to all early cars? Mine is one the first C5s. Why hasn't it been subject to a recall if they knew about it?
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"So, does the wrong mixture apply to all early cars? Mine is one the first C5s. Why hasn't it been subject to a recall if they knew about it?"
Unlikely, since my "Revue Technique" for the Xantia HDi states that "since 2001 do not replace (antifreeze) because of the adoption of a new type of liquid with unlimited life"
--
Phil
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"So, does the wrong mixture apply to all early cars? Mine is one the first C5s. Why hasn't it been subject to a recall if they knew about it?" Unlikely, since my "Revue Technique" for the Xantia HDi states that "since 2001 do not replace (antifreeze) because of the adoption of a new type of liquid with unlimited life" -- Phil
Yes, I know it is supposed not to need replacing but if there was a fault with the mixture in early models, surely it should be subject to a recall if there could in any way be a problem with it.
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I wouldn't worry too much about the 'crystalising anti-freeze' theory. This morning I got the 'coolant level low' warning once again - so all this sounds to me like a story from a dealer who can't / won't roll the sleeves up and lift the cylinder head. I'm convinced I've got a (small) head gasket leak and the worry is that this might turn into a big one with catastrophic consequences for either the head, the block or both!
I was told that the radiator wasn't getting uniformly hot, so they concluded it must be blocked (a 66,000 mile 2002 car - regularly serviced by main dealer??) More like a pocket of air created by a blowing gasket methinks.......
Graeme
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And me!
Xantia Hdi Exclusive (90k) and Berlingo HDi on drive at moment. C2 Hdi outside son's flat. Fondly remember my 2 old BX XUDs and Xantia XUD which all served us well for well over 100k each and never "broke down and left us stranded" except for the oldest BX when a throttle cable snapped after about 120k. Wife had to call out the RAC, I would have driven it the mile home on tickover and then replaced the cable for a tenner.
Had Cits for 20 years now - very reliable (until tomorrow!!)
New C5 on cover of last week's Auto express might be our next (as a 2 year old second hander for £8,000????). Looked great.
I hate reading that they are reliable - 2nd hand prices might go up!!
Incidentally, is Cit "refinding" itself? Latest designs seem to be returning to innovative originality - or is that just my imagination??
--
Phil
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Oops,
the "me too" was in reply to "Count me in too!" from Glowplug.
As for
"difficult as possible: like changing rear bulbs/design of disk pad retention system"
which Cit is that??
--
Phil
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> is Cit "refinding" itself?
Looks like it. I think they've realized that they'll lose out in the car-as-appliance market to the Korean makers, so they're using distinctive design as a selling point. Just as long as they don't go back to single windscreen wipers - there's a good reason for using two!
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Just as longas they don't go back to single windscreen wipers - there's a good reason for using two!
is there? What?
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If you don't know, try driving a Fiat Uno in a downpour. A single wiper doesn't reach the top corners of the screen, leaving a big wet area close enough to my eyeline to be annoying and possibly dangerous. A two-wiper set-up (assuming it's reversed for right-hand drive - are you reading, BMW?) clears the most important area, in front of the driver, much more effectively.
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It was just fine in my BX and doesn't seem to be a problem in the MB's I've travelled in. Maybe it's the small windscreen that is the problem, not the single wiper per se.
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I'm taller than most, so I care more about that top corner. MB 190s and W124s used to have some sort of eccentric pivot to push the wiper tip further into the corner, but even that was only *almost* as good as a two-wiper design, and I note that new MBs (and Jaguar XJs, and Citroens - even the CX-esque C6, I think) have dropped the single wiper for a proper pair.
Straying from the point but does anyone know why BMW 3s have wipers set for RHD but 5s (and 7s?) still have the LHD pattern? My dad's Renault 12 had this problem in the 70s and I thought the makers had learned to do it properly.
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..Just remember, WD's stats are for cars on its warranties, so most will be over 3 years old.
Even more impressive for Citroen then, no?
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MB 190s and W124s used to have some sort of eccentric pivot to push the wiper tip further into the corner, but even that was only *almost* as good as a two-wiper design, and I note that new MBs (and Jaguar XJs, and Citroens - even the CX-esque C6, I think) have dropped the single wiper for a proper pair.
Interestingly, although on Mercs (C-classes at least) the 2-wiper design still has the lefthand wiper on an eccentric cam , the righthand
wiper is 'normal' - they give an excellent & quiet wipe btw, right to the edge with none of that annoying click-clack sound.
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