Both IIRC - at least one forum member's forthcoming BMW car was supposed to have been one of those lost, again IIRC.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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BMWs - it still hurts right. (RIP my leased 330d which I never saw)
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PU
How about some guidance (in principle) on an individuals rights in claiming salvage? Just in case I find a 330D washed up on the beach!
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pmh (was peter)
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"hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of BMW motorcycles"
And that should keep residuals frim on my 1200
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Isn't there a difference here between jetsam (thrown overboard, eg to lighten ship) and flotsam ( washed overboard in a storm) ? Whether either gives you the right to it if you find it on a beach is another matter. Sounds like "Whisky Galore".
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Whisky Galore indeed !!!!
I seem to remember, some years ago, on that part of the coast a ship managed to loose it's cargo of wood, most of which ended up on a local beach. The owners were saved the time and, presumably, cost of removing all this wood because many local residents came along to the beach and removed the wood themselves!
Anyone in the market for some BMW spares, I wonder?
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Where I live, on the North West coast, a coal ship went down either during the war or not long afterwards.
We used to go regularly onto the beach to collect this coal, which was still being washed up or embedded in the sand 20 or more years later.
Great, because you didn't get dirty hands collecting it...:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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During the miners' strike in the 1980s "sea coal" kept an awful lot of people warm in the North East as well as putting food on the table. The people collecting it often waded waist deep to collect it, but many of the beaches up there were black after certain tides. Even outside the period of the strike some desperate people made a small and unhealthy living collecting and selling it. As I recall sea coal has a tendency to explode in very hot fires, but doesn't burn as well as the fresh stuff. Ideal for banking up the fire to keep it going overnight.
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Anything washed up between the high and low water marks is the property of the crown and you can still be hung at tyburn for stealing it..
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The black spot is in the post for mentioning the word Tyburn.
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Thanks pew, how are the eyes now?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Not so bad now these daily disposables are less than a doubloon for a month's supply.
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6287457.stm
50 BMW motorcycles taken off the beach!
Long gone are the days of whisky galore when it was legitimate to take such goods of a beach, I hope these criminals are locked up, what they are doing is no more legal than breaking into a BMW dealer in the middle of the night.
All it serves to do is divert the authorities from the difficult task in hand.
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Food for thought cheddar. But why bother going down to the beach to find them? We're short of beaches in London so we just nick them from parking bays and from outside people's houses - it's just the same and a bit easier. They might not be all so new though.
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Property washed ashore in such circumstances and retained by the finder as their own property is theft....sorry!
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Interesting, I think, to see that human attitudes haven't changed in centuries. About 150 years ago a ship loaded with wine and spirits was wrecked on Chesil beach, just below my former home, and more people are said to have died on the beach from alcohol poisoning after rapidly drinking their 'finds' than were lost in the actual shipwreck...
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I see from the latest report that 200 locals are busy clearing the flotsam, which includes at least one blue BMW bike worth c.£15,000. The police are reported as saying that they aren't stopping people picking up the stuff, but are handing out leaflets stating that the beachcombers must report their finds and store them safely until contacted by the rightful owners..
More details here: tinyurl.com/38h9rg
P.
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What you going to do with your £15k BMW Flotsam Mk1? YOu cant just go and get number plates and road tax for it.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
8< SNIP - Unfounded allegations removed; as well as the discussion that followed it. Apologies if anything not to do with this particular discussion was also removed - DD
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Who was iy said all property is theft Geordie......
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Interesting info about the Receiver of Wrecks at tinyurl.com/3xwra8
In particular the "Salvage Award"
If I've read it correctly, you go onto the beach, wheel away a £13K BMW then fill out the correct forms to MCGA and then get a couple of valuations and claim your prize! All above board and shipshape.
PST
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Salvage does not apply to items lnded on a beach from a known source and therefore a known owner, taking such items is theft.
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'Landed' means brought ashore deliberately, doesn't it? These containers were 'washed ashore', not 'landed'. Anyway that's what I would say if pulled for riding an unlicensed, foreign-spec, rusty BMW motor bike.
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'Landed' means brought ashore deliberately, doesn't it? >>
Perhaps the differentiation is if lost or not, these containers could be said to be not lost, they were in sight of the authorities etc.
If I dropped an outboard off the back of a boat into 20ft of water I could mark it, inform the nearest harbour master, coastguard etc and recover it later, if anyone else recovered it in the meantime they would be theiving if they made off with it and would not be due any salvage, though a "drink" might not go amiss. On the otherhand if I lost the said outboard, had no idea where, i.e. it fell off while sailing, and someone recovered it and found out that it was mine they could claim salvage based on it's value.
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Apparently it does apply. They just had the Receiver of Wrecks on Radio 4. Whilst she stressed that people were taking items that belonged to someone else, as long as they filled out the relevant forms and informed the Receiver of what it was they had, then if the owner wanted the items back there would be a salvage award to be paid (although she didn't specify what that might be).
I assume there must be some historical logic to this. However, Radio 4 also interviewed a number of people that were already talking about putting stuff on Ebay and car boot sales - then that indeed is theft (or will be).
I would also assume that anything that has washed ashore is, in the owner's eyes, an insurance claim anyway so they're probably not going to be too bothered about people walking off with steering columns, bottles of wine, nappies etc.
PST
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Strictly speaking the ship is not a wreck, it was intentionally grounded, the containers were flotsam though were not "recovered" by the supposed salvors, rather the owners knew of the location of the containers, i.e the beach, at the point the goods were removed.
Cant see how salvage can be claimed, it's theft, nothing less!
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There's a clip on the BBC of some locals with a couple of BMW 1200s hoiked onto the back of a tractor. I daresay Ebay will shortly have some very reasonable BMW parts listed......
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This was in tonight's Evening Standard. The majority of the bikes were taken after people completed the appropriate paperwork. If the owner doesn't claim within a set time period, the salvager can legally claim ownership.
Of course, that assumes they left legit details on the form.
Cheers
DP
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I assume these things have been in seawater for 24 hours? how much use are they?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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All this blurb of "is this theft" / "is this not theft" stuff gets away from motoring a bit doesn't it guys (and gals!)? Far more interesting is can you identify from this pic, that a colleague took of the wreckage on Sunday, the vehicle(s):
tinyurl.com/2aesqw
Obviously both are short wheelbase 4x4s of some sort - my guess would be maybe the latest model Suzuki Grand Vitara?
DB
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Of course it is a criminal offence, but so are robbery and theft, and these are thriving in Blair's Britain. You might get prosecuted for speeding on the new BMW, but not for stealing it froma beach.
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Of course it is a criminal offence,
Only if they don't declare it.
"Police have warned them they are breaking the law if they fail to declare taking any of the ship's cargo. "
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6287457.stm
And to bring it back to motoring discussion.
"Around 50 BMW motorbikes were carried off the beach last night," he added."
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6287047.stm
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Saw a brilliant bumper sticker yesterday.
"Don't steal, the government hates competition."
Removal of flotsam and jetsam off the shore should be encouraged. Otherwise, eventually, it is the taxpayer who will foot the cleanup bill.
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.>> Removal of flotsam and jetsam off the shore should be encouraged. Otherwise, eventually, it is the taxpayer who will foot the cleanup bill.
Next time there's a hike in fuel prices people will be stealing oil slicks from polluted beaches, or syphoning methane out of thawing peat bogs.
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You may laugh, I know of one guy ( a lock keeper ) who captured methane bubbling up from the river to fuel his gas ring and boil his tea.,
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Removal of flotsam and jetsam off the shore should be encouraged. Otherwise, eventually, it is the taxpayer who will foot the cleanup bill.
The problem is that, in a lot of these cases, pre-looting the flotsam consists of sealed containers. Post-looting the flotsam consists of a large area of stuff that the looters decided they didn't want and threw out of the container.
they're certainly not helping the clean up operation.
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Good question Devonboy, I also rreckon they're Suzuki Grand vitaras, but wouldn't put money on it.
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I notice from today's paper that some of the goods found were people's personal possessions, and that some of the people concerned were upset. Can't really blame them, can you?
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Good question Devonboy, I also rreckon they're Suzuki Grand vitaras, but wouldn't put money on it.
Can't seem to get Devonboy's link to work (although it did last night)
From what I recall, is this a closer picture of the vehicle in question?
newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42482000/jpg/_42482...g
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I think i read somewhere this is someones personal car being shipped elsewhere.
How did the accident happen? Draw a picture of the scene. Describe weather conditions and road surface.
Any idea how you fill those in?
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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"How did the accident happen?"
I think I've flooded the engine dear.
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Yep, that's the one; maybe there's an alloy wheel 'spotter' out there who can give a positive ID.
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When my brother moved to California, the company (HP) paid to transport belongings. Process was a lorry with a container (like one that you've seen on the beaches) arrives at home. Removal men pack everything carefully etc. and put in container. The container then taken to the docks and loaded on a ship. About 2 months later his gear arrived in San Fransisco and offloaded.
So of those containers there could be all sort of personal possessions that were not going to be for sale. It's sad that people think stealing (on camera) is okay.
Another example... my uncle who is into classic cars has gone with one of his Jags a few times to a west coast of America event along with lots of friends. Cars are packed into containers and shipped to USA weeks in advance. You catch a plane and meet up with the car... so again something like this could have happened here. So would that allow me to help myself to a Jag XJ220 or something (my uncles was only an XK140)
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The BBC and other news sources don't help by using the word 'looting', which somehow suggests the people doing it are free-spirited pranksters and not thieves. Thieves who are also making life miserable for the locals.
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The whole thing annoys me from start to finish. A modern day fable about values in this benighted country.
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The whole thing annoys me from start to finish. A modern day fable about values in this benighted country.>>
Yep, says it all and, as usual, the police just stand and watch :-(
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"Yep, says it all and, as usual, the police just stand and watch :-( "
I wondered how long it would be before the Police got the blame! They ate not committing a criminal offence removing the goods.
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I wondered how long it would be before the Police got the blame! They ate not committing a criminal offence removing the goods.>>
Apologies - I do the police a disservice. They were there to ensure that the looting took place in an orderly fashion and that fighting between rival groups did not get out of hand.
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And now back to motoring please. DD.
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When I hear the word looting I picture those caught in the act being shot by riot police
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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a Jag XJ220 or something (myuncles was only an XK140)
What d'you mean, 'only'? Which would you rather have, a usable sports car or a hopelessly undeveloped 'supercar'? It's what I think they call a 'no-brainer' in reality.
On the question of looting, wrecking etc., while I agree that the sight of yobbos in trainers and shorts carrying stuff away is irksome, we should remember that wrecking and piracy are both built into this country's distinguished history.
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Lud has just hit what I was going to say.
We do in certain parts of this country, have a history of wrecking, piracy and smuggling. THe worlds earliest government enforcement agency, HM customs and excise was born from this pastime. Its is a very old tradition and hence has had folklore and romanticism wound round it over the ages ( coupled with the desire to cheat the government) All this means we have a soft spot for smugglers and pirates.
All the above is fine when its from corporations and companies. However raking through peoples personal property is repugnant.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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HM customs and excise was born from this pastime
And actually more importantly TVM, the Royal Navy in its dashing form, now being savagely curtailed....
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Indeed Lud. Although they were actually the pirates at first.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Although they were actually the pirates at first.
Er... my very point TVM....
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>>a Jag XJ220 or something (myuncles was only an XK140)
> What d'you mean, 'only'?
Said partly tongue in cheek... the same uncle when he bought the XK140 could have bought an E-Type instead but always wanted an XK. He has since got rid of that XK and I think bought a convertible XK140. Also had old MG TF (i.e. a 50s car like this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1953.mg.tf.arp.jpg .. his was red though) which he ended up selling to the owner of a hotel in Cyprus I think. Maybe it wasn't Cypress but they had a private car museum in the basement!
Not visited for a bit but he also has an old Bentley now.
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Jolly good uncle to have I must say rtj...
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>>>Jolly good uncle to have I must say rtj...
Lud. He is a nice person. Did make a fair bit of money out a decorating business and retired and sold out to business partner, hence spare cash. But he has heart bypass op coming up. Fingers crossed. Not seen him in about 18 months.
Most fun car after the XK140 to drive in was his Gilbern. That was of course a Welsh built car (we're Welsh). It had a 2.9 Ford engine, had been upholstered in connelly leather and because of the age did not have seat belts - well there were some we used but legally you didn't. And with a fibre-glass body it moved shall we say.
Most interesting car was an old Austin he had. Original pull string on rear window blind even. Interesting because we went to a BBC production to park the car for them to have in shot and enjoyed watching the filming. It starred Denis Lawson (Wedge in Star Wars) amongst others and he rudely pushed in the queue for the food trailer... :-( Think it was an Amis play adaptation... That Uncertain Feeling? Only about 15 at the time.
Sorry to hijack thread. But said Uncle has used containers to ship his cars.
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