For reasons that become obvious below, I would like as many as possible to do the following test and reply here::
1/ Sit in the driver's seat with the engine running.
2/ Press moderately hard on the brake pedal - and keep the same pressure applied for up to a minute.
There are only two possible results - either:
(a) once the initial free play and compressibility have been taken up in the first second or so, the pedal stays where it is.
(b) once the initial free play and compressibility have been taken up in the first second or so, the pedal moves down slowly but steadily downward, eventually hitting the stops.. This has always been recognised as a fault, due to brake fluid leaking slowly through a bad seal or bad union etc - until now!
If in doubt, try holding a long stick or broom handle or whatever so that the bottom end rests on the brake pedal alongside your foot and the upper end rests against the edge of the steering wheel, making it easy to see any continuing movement rather than rely on "feel". Either way, please confirm the following
More movement - "pedal creep" or not, make and model, age, petrol or diesel, ABS or not. For hydraulic brakes only of course, not rod or cable!
I have just collected my 2001 Vauxhall Omega for the 6th time, and the fault symptom remains the same in kind, worse still in extent.. When I do the above test, the pedal creeps downward under constant pressure, reaching the end of travel within 5 seconds or so.
Amazingly, a brand new, unsold Vectra at the dealer's does the same - BUT WORSE! With relatively light pressure, the pedal continues to move down quite rapidly until it hits the end stop with an audible click! Apparently they all do this, and no one else has noticed and the dealer sells them by the hundred!
On an Omega owners web site a few report the same symptoms, rather more no such symptoms - so the dealer's claim that this is "normal" simply is not true. Nor can I imagine why anyone would design a system to do that! On the other hand, it seems that thousands of brand new Vauxhalls are being sold with brake pedals that sink "to the floor" within seconds, and NO ONE SEEMS TO NOTICE! This is the most bizarre problem I have come across in 48 years driving"
I refuse to believe that anyone in his right mind would design a brake system to do this - quite apart from the safety and lack of confidence aspects, how can drivers control braking properly if the pedal keeps moving down - and what happens in a high speed stop, when the pedal hits the end of travel - inevitably taking some of the availble foot pressure - before the car stops?
I now intend to get the ABS valve block checked and if necessary replaced.
A friend rang to tell me that Watchdog on BBC this week referred to an unidentified "British" car manufacturer has a major safety problem that they refuse to recognise - I wonder if this is it?
Idris
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You mean to tell me that there are millions of Opel/vauxhalls throughout the world that have no brakes after 5 seconds use which I think would lead to a world outcry due to the untold accidents that would be occuring every few seconds,also the garages would be full with people trying to get it fixed and I have not noticed that happening. I haven't noticed in the UK I haven't noticed it Germany or anywhere else and my sons Omega estate stops without any problem and so does his pals Vectra along with the along with the Minerva and Astra hire cars I had last week.Your car might or might not have a brake problem of the servo draining to quickly on tickover due to a perforated membrane or a leaking master cylinder or wheel cylinder that some garage cannot fix your problem is with them not the rest of the world.
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MY previous car was an Omega, and it didn't do this, the pedal feel was near perfect and 'solid' feeling, but the newer VW Passat I replaced it with (nowhere near as good a car) does it and a thread on the VW forum seems to suggest it is coomon on VWs of this millenium. I can keep my foot on and it sinks to the floor, yet if I jab it hard a few times, it seems to stay hard.
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Owned various Vauxhalls since 1985 and have never experienced this problem.
However, I have seen it mentioned before on a Vauxhall forum that the Vectra-B *could* do this, and IIRC was traced to a faulty ABS modulator.
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As with DD, I've owned various Vauxhalls since the late 1970's & run two now and none behaved as you describe.
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I've just tootled out into the car park and checked my '95 Omega, whilst the pedal action is softer than I expect, I can't get my foot to the flloor.
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Just checked my 2002 Astra (with ABS). Pedal stays exactly where it is even with a hard push for at least 20 seconds. I'm sure that the sinking pedal indicates a fault.
JS
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There is NO fault on these cars. Its a consequence of brake assist. My previous Laguna did it, and so does the Touran, With the engine running and you hold continuous firm pressure on the pedal the pedal will slowly sink to the floor. The brakes however are fine, and work just hunky dory when you need them in real life.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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With the engine running and you hold continuous firm pressure on the pedal the pedal will slowly sink to the floor. The brakes however are fine, and work just hunky dory when you need them in real life.
Supposing you were descending a long alpine pass with a heavy load, and needed to "hold continuous firm presssure on the pedal", what would happen when it reached the floor?
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It doesent happen like that in real life. you dont run any car down an alpine pass with your foot on the brakes all the time at the same brake pressure
Its ony a constant firm *unvarying* pressure that causes the effect, the kind of braking you will never use in real life.
dont be under any illusion the brakes are not working when the pedal is sinking, The pedal can sink all the way to the floor while stationary but the brakes are locked hard on!
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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TVM
You may be right, but the OP's car is pre-brake assist.
JS
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You may be right, but the OP's car is pre-brake assist.
but the ones he tested in the showroom are brake assist,
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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TVM, don't dispute that or that it's a 'feature' of brake-assist cars. I was just commenting that on his particular car it probably is a fault! I fully agree it's most unlikely that Vx are selling cars with brake faults.
JS
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Idris
have you noticed any problem with the brakes in normal use? have they failed to stop you? did you notice anything prior to this constant pressure for 1 minute thing?
the answer of course is no.
Do you really think that vauxhall would have been selling cars with a brake fault for years?
No neither do I.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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A quick google search says it's a known Vauxhall problem, caused by incorrect procedure when setting up the ABS. Not necessarily dangerous unless it happens to the extent that it impedes emergency braking. It's known to be tricky, apparently, and many dealers fail to rectify it completely.
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On all the new vauxhalls in the showroom? I dont think so
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Has the master cylinder been undone and checked to see if the seal's are passing?? had this on a car a few years ago new master cylinder fitted all was well, currently driving 56 astra pedal and braking v good last car 6 yr old astra no probs had 3 vx's up to now no brake faults. think your just a bit unlucky!
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Have you had your brake pads replaced recently? Read somewhere that with cars with ABS and vauxhalls you have to be extremely careful when replacing brake pads.
When the old pads are taken out some uninformed mechanics push the piston back into the caliper quickly or without opening the bleed nipple. The fluid is forced back into the master brake reservoir. This sometimes reverses the seals in the master cylinder. When this happens if you keep your foot pressed on the brake pedal it slowly sinks to the floor.
Could be the garage is not aware or want to check this.
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