There has been allot of deate on motoring and business forums about the real green attributes of the Prius and how it is probably costing Toyota to sell them.
Nissan (and presumably Renault later) are now paying Toyota under licence to use their hybrid technology.
Will the Prius turn out to be one of those long term decisions that Toyota are so good at (usually after they have been criticised for doing someting such as the Prius)
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6168745.stm
I wonder who will be next ?
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Not many, I don't think.
Hybrids are a next-step technology, not the ultimate answer. And anyway, PSA are going to have diesel hybrids soon which will be far more economical.
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Current hybrid technology has a 50% higher footprint in manufacture and disposal (so called embedded carbon) than conventional petrol or diesel and is no more efficient than a good TD.
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Would be interesting to take the drive train/battery out of a Prius and replace it with a small diesel (say the VAG 3 cylinder 90HP engine) and see how economical it was.
Would really prove a point one way or another.
If Toyota think the Hybrid is so good why don't they do it . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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When I read the title to this post I thought Prius owners were going to start have to pay the taxes that seem apropate for a car with such a big envronmental footprint.
Ever since the internal combustion engine was fitted into a car, electic motors have been seen as the future. After a century of this attitude why do we persist with it dispite the evidence to the contrary?
The present generation of hybrids are environmental disasters. What intrests me is can anyone point to technology, that is not yet applied, that can make hybrid cars the future of transport?
Toyota has been very successful in releasing a technology that appeals to the general public. The geneal public has been brainwashed into thinking this technology is green, Toyota has just been very succesful in seeing this marketing oppurtunity. The real test of Toyota's long term success will be whether it can spot these trends before other car makers.
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Torque means nothing without RPM
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Electric motors are far superior to IC engines in many (if not all) respects.
The issue when it comes to motoring is how to store the energy, that's where the problem lies. The current solutions involve either batteries or hybrids. Both of these have major drawbacks.
What we really need is a major advance in battery technology.
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The issue when it comes to motoring is how to store the energy... What we really need is a major advance in battery technology.
Agreed. And when that advance comes along, Toyota are ideally placed to exploit it as they hold much of the intellectual property for hybrid drivetrains.
What's more, the major advance may well come from Toyota, who invest heavily in research into alternative energy (especially fuel cells).
So to answer the OP's question, yes, in the long term, the Prius will probably become another example of Toyota's shrewd business decision making.
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I agree with Gromit and Moonshine. It's basically a good idea waiting for the technology to happen. At present, as Cheddar says, a good TD wipes out almost every argument for hybrids, and if run on biodiesel wipes out all arguments. However, given decent batteries and a more eco friendly manufacturing process, this should change. I love the idea of a leccy motor in a town runabout / commuter. Zero fuel consumption when stationery, no noise or vibration, and all that torque from zero revs to pull you off the line.
I read an article recently that suggested there is as much interest in fuel cells for micro-generation of power (i.e. attached to buildings) as there is as a possible source of power for transport. Packaging is not so much of a problem, and it will reduce demand on an already creaking power generation network, as well as reduce CO2 emissions.
Cheers
DP
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>>The geneal public has been brainwashed into thinking this technology is green, Toyota has just been very succesful in seeing this marketing oppurtunity.<<
I think you could also add that various Governments and Councils have aided in this belief with tax and congestion charge relief. So it's hardly suprising the general public think they are doing the right thing.
On the subject of the overall polluting footprint (raised above and use of a 3 cylinder diesel engine) I am suprised that many diesel owners do tend to criticise the Prius and other Hybrids but don't care to think about the larger pollutant footprint that diesels cause. Whilst benefiting CO2 reduction, the levels of NOX and CO are far greater (although a bit better with a particulate filter) than a petrol powered car.
I noticed how many Daily Mail readers were keen to criticise the battery material supplier for polluting the surrounding area of the factory/processing plant - but I wonder how many of these good people were diesel drivers pumping high levels of CO & NOX into the atmosphere.
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But is the overall environmental footprint of a diesel larger than a comparable petrol? It's seems to my unscientific mind that the VERY basics are:
Diesel - less CO2, less fuel comsumption, larger particulates.
Petrol - less CO, less NOX, smaller particulates.
But which is 'better' overall for the environment. And whichever is the best we should then properly maintain them but drive them into the ground, instead of needlessly renewing every 3 years just because the lease is up or because we fancy a change (easier said than done!).
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