The fuel duty is to rise by 1.2p per litre, in line with inflation, after a three year freeze.
Hardly a) the end of the world b) cause for hysterical calls for a revolution
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Please stop whingeing about motoring taxes. The Government has to raise money somehow.
IF you want low taxes, it HAS to save money somehow. So reduce Invailidity Benfit? Or pensions?
Unless you cut one, you can't cut the other.
Personally I would change car taxation so :
1. Numberplates showed the tax position (as in US)
2. Any vehicle entering UK without a numberplate has to buy a temporary one.(which answers the UK haulage industry complaints)
3. Any vehicle without a current licence plate would be automatically seized. Full stop.
Much simpler ANPR.
If you want to whinge about motoring taxes and have them reduced, please show where the savings will come from on expenditure.
PS I support lower state spending but it cannot be magicked away...
madf
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Agree with madf. Money has to come from somewhere. No one seems to want income tax to be increased (although that would probably be the fairest way) so indirect taxes have to be increased.
In terms of the global warming debate I think that there IS a concensus in the scientific community that it is happening. Certainly the scale of short-term climate change is a bit worrying. We may only output a small part of the global CO2 load, but I guess we can set an example. Also anything that reduces usage of hydrocarbons has to be good.
Such a lot of travel is wasteful - e.g. attending meetings all over the country instead of doing things by phone or teleconferencing. I suspect a proportion of 'business travel' is actually done to avoid real work or just to get out of the office for the day. I work for myself and I don't travel unless I absolutely have to, but a lot of people I deal with in companies seem to do an awful lot of travelling......
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I could accept all that if it weren't for the following:
Even if you discount the £6 billion (and counting) cost of the pointless involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, the £844 million Brown gave away in "special aid" to Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan in recent months is nearly three times (£290 million) what he gained from the last fuel duty increase.
It is absolutely right that public services need to be paid for, but he doesn't need to shaft motorists to do it. He needs to spend some of the money he throws about overseas on public services. We could probably get a tax cut out of it to boot.
Cheers
DP
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"Even if you discount the £6 billion (and counting) cost of the pointless involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan..."
Ahem, if only that little...
Global warming - anyone who is interested might like to read Al Gore's 'An Inconvenient Truth'. A good informative read.
And yes, Govt. does have to raise money but some of their current spending is ridiculous IMO, for example the increasingly farcical NHS IT system.
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Why do you think we are fighting in Iraq if not to keep the petrol pumps working?
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BTW, if you don't believe me look up Mohammed Mossadeq, the democratically elected PM of Iran who nationalised the British owned state petroleum company, enraging our Government who ousted him installed the Shah whose way of governing (a heady mix of cruelty, corruption and torture) led to Ayatollah Khoemeni - leading to the Iran/Iraq war and the growth in power of one S Hussein.
Regime change for oil - we've got form.............
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Quote " Because I assume you live in Spain I'm having difficulty trying to work out how it will affect you personally."
I have a daughter and son-in-law in the UK struggling to make a living from a business - this proposed increase will only make it harder!
I visit UK and when there I drive & buy fuel.
I am a pensioner and cannot afford to live in the UK - there we would be on, at the least, housing benefit due to a combined income of MUCH less than the national average.
One day we will probably have to return, as do quite a few elderly expats.
I pay UK tax at source in addition to Spanish Income tax, (the latter reduced by the amount levied in the UK).
Finally, I'm English and anything which affects my country, affects me!
Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
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I have just heard that white and red diesel is going up tonight by 1.5p.
Thanks Gordon! I wasn't going to vote for you anyway.
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Climate change will be much reduced as a result, so it's all worth it....
Cheers
DP
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Oh for God's sake, why all the moaning. lets have a look at the facts then ask ourselves 1) are we lazy and 2) is there anything we can do to reduce the amount we rely on cars...
1) An experiment. On your normal morning commute reset the fuel consumption computer (assuming you have one) before you start the engine then note the average fuel consumption figure on your arrival at work. The following day, wait until the engine has warmed up and then reset at that point. This assumes that you are not already at work (see remark at the end). You should see that the fuel consumption is substantially lower if you exclude the effect of engine warm up. This means that for short journeys our cars have an appalling fuel consumption regardless of what official figures say.
2) The average car journey length is 8.9km. If you dont believe it, read the following
"Actual car use and operating conditions as emissions parameters : derived urban driving cycles"
M Andre, R Joumard, A J Hickman and D Hassel
The Science of the Total Environment, 146/147, 225-232, 1994.
Interesting to note that 6% of journeys are actually less than 20m!! (that metres not miles)
The point is by avoiding "short journeys" (lets say less than the average of 8.9km) you will be saving loads on fuel and thereby cheating the good Mr Brown's plans.
Use you feet, get on your bike or use the bus.
Whats the worst that can happen? You may get rained on and who knows maybe a bit fitter.
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>>Use you feet, get on your bike or use the bus.
Living in London or another big city, then fine. For the rest of us mortals not blessed with doorstep transport links (my nearest train station is 8 miles away and the nearest mainline station is 21 miles), or not being able to afford to live in the big, expensive cities where we work, it's not that easy.
The bus service into London from my (small) town was scrapped last year because the council ran out of money and canned the subsidy.
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Living in London or another big city, then fine. For the rest of us mortals not blessed with doorstep transport links (my nearest train station is 8 miles away and the nearest mainline station is 21 miles), or not being able to afford to live in the big, expensive cities where we work, it's not that easy.
i agree totally. I live rurally and there just are not that many buses passing. I would also say that with my own business, a lot of my journeys are short but a lot of the time I am picking up supplies or disposing of things (my last small journey was to get 80kg of sand ). It is not feasible to walk or cycle it.
I think overall that motorists came quite well out of the statement. It was interesting to see the airline journey tax doubled - I have to say that I think taxing airlines and reducing journeys is a much better idea. Business could find ways around some of their trips (video conferencing) and having worked in lthe past (for 20 years) in large financial services companies, there are a lot of unneccessary "jollies" that go on e.g. team building courses in Bermuda, etc. For the holidaymaker again there are choices of sea travel to Europe or holidays in the UK (we have some fantastic places in the UK and the weather IS getting warmer), we should go there and invest in our own economy.
This thread is headed Gordon Brown but I think a lot more of the threat is from the other parties. I watched the Daily Politics Show and it was interesting seeing the party consensus on Iraq, and the success of the economy. The parties will have to create some differentiation before the next election and I think the Conservatives & Liberals may well try and "out green" New Labour. Gordon may yet end up the motorists friend......;-)
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"Use you feet, get on your bike or use the bus. Whats the worst that can happen? "
Knocked off, mugged, robbed, stabbed, flashed at, groped, spat on, kicked, punched, abused, gang-banged, murdered, raped, all or combinations of.
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OK. I think we are being silly now. Clearly some trips require a car.
I am thinking of the trip to the shop at the end of the road to buy chocolate, cigs etc. Driving the kids to school 1 mile away. Shuffling 5 cars on a driveway so that mum can drive the kids to swimming 1 mile down the road etc.
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I am thinking of the trip to the shop at the end of the road to buy chocolate, cigs etc. Driving the kids to school 1 mile away. Shuffling 5 cars on a driveway so that mum can drive the kids to swimming 1 mile down the road etc.
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Quite right - but the people who do that sort of thing will continue to do it even when petrol costs £5 a litre, because they don't give a stuff about anyone or anything apart from themselves, and can afford it. Good old human nature.
Meanwhile, the rest of us who drive because it is apparently pretty much illegal for a British government to have a properly thought-out transport policy which actually makes it feasible (let alone attractive) to use public transport, get it in the shorts.
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If any of you were serious you would write persistently to your MP.
I did on Iraq.. she was a Labour Minister. (note the "was")
Of course you may get the brush off (I did).. but I now have the pleasure of being able to say "I told you so".
If all you do is moan on a BB you achieve nothing...
madf
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Green taxes..a big con!!
Al Gore...well there are plenty of opposing views from well respected scientists that get suppressed because it doesn't allow massive tax rises.
Use your car less.....well come and live in a rural area with no bus services. Even if there was, would they put on a special one for me to get to work at 5.30am!
Put taxes on fuel......errrr, we already do!
I wouldn't mind paying the tax if we actually got some improvement to our lives. More massive council tax rises on the way, yet the councils will have to cut services to make 'efficiency' savings! No extra for road repairs.
Motorists are a target for these blood sucking vultures...and Cameron has said he proposes to re-introduce the fuel escalator.
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Al Gore...well there are plenty of opposing views from well respected scientists that get suppressed because it doesn't allow massive tax rises.
Not so much repressed as rebutted - they don't stand up to scrutiny. Anyway, teh anti-warming viewpoint is lavishly funded by the oil companies. Good thing overall, science only moves forward through debate.
Use your car less.....well come and live in a rural area with no bus services. Even if there was, would they put on a special one for me to get to work at 5.30am!
I don't live in a rural area as I need to be near transport links. My choice. You're reliant on a car. Your choice. You're free to make that choice, so am I. I'm probably about to pay about £30k more for a house becaue it's near good rail and road links. Dwarfs any fuel tax considerations.
I wouldn't mind paying the tax if we actually got some improvement to our lives. More massive council tax rises on the way, yet the councils will have to cut services to make 'efficiency' savings! No extra for road repairs.
I think you'll find that compensation claims are the blood sucking vultures that stop roads being repaired. In many areas claims outstrip the total roads budget (I believe, I read that in a newspaper and can't remember their source)
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Sorry, but utter rubbish.
Who's scrutiny don't they stand up to....yours!!
I live where I can afford...you can afford to pay £30'000 extra...I can't.
You sound like a politicians dream.
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Who's scrutiny don't they stand up to....yours!!
Mine, and the majority of scientists worldwide. Show me convincing evidence to the contrary and I'll change my viewpoint. Until then, I'll disagree with you.
I live where I can afford...you can afford to pay £30'000 extra...I can't.
No I can't actually, I'm living a good 10 miles further out of Birmingham than I'd like precisely because I can't afford it. I could try and say finances forced me out of London up to here, but that would be a lie, I was overjoyed to be able to leave.
You sound like a politicians dream.
I've already said that I believe fuel taxes are misguided and not environmentally useful. We should be concentrating on power generation. I hate urban SUV use, but their fuel consumption doesn't really form a part of that hatred.
Policies are decided by civil servants protecting their own empires, in the main. I offer no solution to that, but while people's selfish attitudes continue to resist direct income taxation, unfair taxes such as fuel will continue. Politicians have to get reelected, so they try and dress them up as nicely as they can.
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now lets see.
Summers are hotter. FACT
Winters are warmer. FACT
Drought in SE England . FACT
Polar ice caps melting. FACT.
So anyone who claims global warming is not happening is a #### FACT.
Only argument is about cause and what can we do to reduce the impact..
If you don't want to do anything , fine...
But that's the attitude of an ostrich..imo
madf
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Analyzing the ice layers at the poles have revealed there was significantly greater CO2 in the atmosphere 30 million years ago. Did they make 4x4s them???
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Yes there was (not the 4x4s, the CO2). Have you heard how much the climate has varied over the last few 10's of thousands of years, let alone the last 30 million.. Do you think humanity would survive that without war, famine and mayhem?? If you do, then I disagree strongly with you.
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">Summers are hotter. FACT<"
Since when? Roman times perhaps? No.
"> Winters are warmer. FACT<
Since when? Roman times perhaps? No.
">Drought in SE England . FACT<"
There is no "drought" in SE England, but there is a water management problem.
">Polar ice caps melting. FACT.<"
Polar icecaps have always melted, where do you think icebergs come from?
In the 1970s, the "experts" were telling all and sundry to prepare for an ice-age.
I'm looking forward to moving to Greenland.
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I don't live out in the sticks, but you can't get a bus to or from here after 5.30pm. The "local" hospital is over six miles away, and you need two buses to get there. However, if you don't have a car you can't visit in the evening.
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Tell Big Bad Dave, sounds like he needs to move somewhere nice and quiet
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>Robbie
I'm afraid the Government's actions in closing local A&E units is basically saying "tough" to you.. You'll need a car to visit any A&E soon.... and of course there will no road building cos road pricing is coming in 10 years to solve congestion so you'll die on the way to A&E but that's "tough" as well...
(and in the same breath they talk about "local accountability" and "devolved government"... yeah right:-(
madf
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Tell Big Bad Dave, sounds like he needs to move somewhere nice and quiet
So you think this is the ideal situation? What about those who don't have access to a motor vehicle?
Your comment about the small rise in duty is not much help to those who have to use taxis for travel. Any increase in travel costs is a disproportionate increase for those of limited means. We have a number of pensioners' bungalows in the village and the majority don't have a motor vehicle. It has recently been suggested that the actual increase in the cost of living for pensioners has been about 9%. Any further increase in travel costs only serves to exacerbate that.
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It's only gone up by inflation, so it's not as if we're paying any more in real terms.
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"It's only gone up by inflation, so it's not as if we're paying any more in real terms."
But what about people who live on fixed income, pensioners for example.
Does their pension keep pace with inflation ?
Im sure that their other bills certainly exceed inflation,gas ,electric,council tax and the rest.
It may be a drop in the ocean for the above average earners,but do spare a thought for the hard up motorists.
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"> It's only gone up by inflation, so it's not as if we're paying any more in real terms.<"
So that's OK then.
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So how much environmental damage is created by:
People all over the country to watch a bag of wind being kicked about?
F1 and WRC teams travelling all over the world to compete and then the spectators travelling?
etc etc etc. We are all guilty of unecessary journeys. But services and shopping are all being centralised ,local services are closing with direct impact on travel with journeys being a necessity.
Where is it going to end? There aint no real alternatives.
--
Fullchat
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etc etc etc. We are all guilty
Quite fullchat.
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"I am thinking of the trip to the shop at the end of the road to buy chocolate, cigs etc. Driving the kids to school 1 mile away. Shuffling 5 cars on a driveway so that mum can drive the kids to swimming 1 mile down the road etc."
Actually, I don't do any of those things but I fail to see why these people are so reviled (except that they cause a bit of congestion). Perhaps you should consider whether you really need to have a dishwasher? washing machine? Hoover? TV, computer, hi-fi, Ipod? go on holiday by plane? have the central heating on? use a petrol/electric mower? electric screwdriver? electric razor, toothbrush? have 6 pairs of trousers etc etc etc. There are alternatives to all of these which would produce virtually no CO2, so why pick on car drivers???? Answer, easy target. Come to think of it, best reduction in CO2 woiuld be achieved by all those pontificating anti-car so-and -so s stopping breathing.
97% of CO2 is NATURAL. 0.3% is down to cars. How about we attack the other 99.7% - oh, I forgot, can't do much about the 97%.
"We are all guilty "
Of what exactly?? Making the most of our brief lives? I fail to see how my 58 (so far ) years has had ANY effect on a planet that has existed for at least 4,500,000,000 years. And if it does (fat chance), I don't care.
I'm driving to work tomorrow, and I might nip home at lunch time to have a butty and have half an hours relax by chatting to my missus, before returning the 5 miles back to work. Totally unnecessary extra 10 miles which may help destroy the planet. Tee-hee I will have left my mark!!
Now off to have a little cigar before bed, that will add a bit of extra CO2 - oh dear, how sad, I don't care.
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Phil
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"Tell Big Bad Dave, sounds like he needs to move somewhere nice and quiet"
Who's talking about me? What've I done now?
I caught a bus yesterday believe it or not from a Warsaw suburb into town, the first time I've ever done so. Saved myself about 12 quid on a taxi but that wasn't the reason, I just noticed that the bus from my street stopped outside the Sheraton Hotel where I drink. It was old, battered and tatty but it ran minute perfect over a 40 minute journey. And you know what my old granny always said - waste not thee on taxis and spend thoust more on lap dancers.
And I rounded off the evening by managing to find possibly the only brand new S-Class Mercedes taxi in Poland. What a beautiful, beautiful car.
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