ANPR Possibly Illegal - Kevin
The government's chief surveillance commissioner has warned that ANPR cameras could qualify as 'covert surveillance' and may therefore be illegal.

www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/30/anpr_legality_deb.../

Kevin...
ANPR Possibly Illegal - colino
Absolute nonsense! So conceivably these cameras "collecting" personal data will lead Traffic Wardens and Police to stop collecting the information that you have a parking ticket displayed or a tax disc on your car.
ANPR Possibly Illegal - SimonM
For me every police force and every police car should have the ANPR system. Also it should be perminantly fixed on entry to every city in the country!!!!

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear thats what i say

simon
State knowledge of your travel - Armitage Shanks {p}
How would your Utopian State Control Board check up on the movement of people on buses, aircraft and trains? I assume you think their movements would be of 'interest'. Why just check up on motorists and their cars?
State knowledge of your travel - PW
Sorry AS- am with SimonM on this. Regardless of how we are the most monitored nation now, so if that means some little oiks get caught with no tax I am more than happy with that.

Sorry if this offends you, and I don't like the thought of big brother watching me, but am really fed up with paying through the nose to run my car legally whilst some scumbags drive round for free.

All being equal, if we didn't have the plethora of CCTV cameras I might be of another opinion.

Incidentally local Police had the tax camera van out in the local Tescos at lunchtime. Part of me did think that was slightly mean on 1st day of the new month.
State knowledge of your travel - Armitage Shanks {p}
PW - I think you misuderstood my point. I was saying that if car drivers are to be checked on by 'Them' why not people travelling by other means such as buses, trains and bicycles? You say you think the cameras are OK but qualify it by saying it was a bit sneaky having them in a Tesco car park. The words 'cake' and 'eating' come to mind!
State knowledge of your travel - SimonM
How would your Utopian State Control Board check up on the
movement of people on buses, aircraft and trains? I assume
you think their movements would be of 'interest'. Why just check
up on motorists and their cars?


24hr cctv would do it for me, speaking as an ex bus driver there are so many freaks of nature use public transport they need keeping an eye on!!!!

i dont just want cars or motorists in general checked up on EVERYONE should be for me, as i said before if you have nothing to hide then you should have no fear.

Surely you and your family would feel safer with all the scum and low life in this country being watched?

simon
State knowledge of your travel - Dwight Van Driver
Facial recognition cameras are being developed as I type AS.

Micro chip has been developed the size of half a little finger nail, one end RDF the other personal details that can be inserted under the skin like a dog. Details can be read from RDF reader some distance from body.

Me, I am frightened, very frightened......

dvd
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Dipstick
Over the next seven days, please post here your every journey, the reason for it, what the result was, what time you left, how you travelled and the time you got back.

Oh, and detail the contents of your bank account, diary and your cupboards too please.

Why not? You have nothing to hide.

ANPR Possibly Illegal - Statistical outlier
Over the next seven days, please post here your every journey,
the reason for it, what the result was, what time you
left, how you travelled and the time you got back.


etc.

Please! Try not to live up to your username quite so completely.

ANPR is no problem at all for the majority of us who pay for insurance, tax etc. If that's all that's being checked, I've no problem at all with it. The computer doesn't care where you've been, are going etc... No human is going to trawl through all that data.
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Armitage Shanks {p}
GordonM. This data IS being used for other purposes, although quite properly in my view. Cars known or suspected of being involved in crime are tracked around the country, or can be. If a number plate can be recorded, a data-base search can be used to track its movements. I have no problem with that aspect of the system but who if it will just be used to track criminals?
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Carse
No one has the time or energy to look through all the data these systems can provide. (it process thousands if not millions of bytes of data almost instantly) What it does do is allow specific data to be flagged as risk and when the system sees this data on the roan via your number plate it displays this to the officer.

Far as I am concerned I am with the other guys the more the merrier.

Carse.
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Dipstick
Thank you Gordon.

I dare say the true intent and purpose of data gathered now, and the inevitable data creep that ensues, will lie somewhere between my apparent cynicism and your apparent naivety! :)

ANPR Possibly Illegal - Statistical outlier
Yes, fair point, it'll probably bite back in the end. :-)

Satisfying seeing the cheating little bu ggers getting taken off the road for the moment tho isn't it? Cloning seems to be becoming a massive issue - if that could be flagged automatically that would seem like a good thing to me.

Thing is. ANPR seems once of the less insidious technologies currently being introduced. Personally I'd find it quite funny if it could be used to disprove speeding tickets being issued willy nilly by the scamera partnerships by proving the car was elsewhere.
ANPR Possibly Illegal - madf
I'd have more worries about Big Brother IF:
the Governement IT systems collating data from multiple sources worked.
As it is, the NHS IT system is likely to be the most expensive white elephant ever.

So imo Road Pricing and ANPR are jobs for the jobsworths but not a Big Brother threat..
madf
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Group B
I have no problem with that aspect of the system but who [knows?]
if it will just be used to track criminals?


Why would the police waste time and resources tracking law-abiding citizens?

When that Bradford policewoman was shot and killed, I think ANPR played a role in them tracking the getaway car didn't it? It earned its keep that day.

I dont like speed cameras one bit, but for the purposes of catching insurance and MoT dodgers then I think ANPR is acceptable.
ANPR Possibly Illegal - smokie
"I dont like speed cameras one bit, but for the purposes of catching insurance and MoT dodgers then I think ANPR is acceptable"

So, one rule for "them" and another for you? :-)
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Group B
So, one rule for "them" and another for you? :-)


Oh yes, I didnt realise I was typing something so blatantly hypocritical!!

Oops! ;o)
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Group B
Oh yes, I didnt realise I was typing something so blatantly
hypocritical!!
Oops! ;o)


What I further meant to add before posting (I'm not doing very well here!) was that I don't like speed cameras because they are a very poor substitute for real coppers in traffic cars.

;o)
ANPR Possibly Illegal - nortones2
How many coppers would it need to replace speed cameras? Its crying for the moon to expect anything other than automation to deal with the amount of traffic.
ANPR Possibly Illegal - jase1
We're all perfectly OK with cameras/surveillance everywhere, because the Civil Service is too incompetent to bring all the data in order to be able to be mischievous with it in the first place.

When a government finally succeeds in making the system efficient, that's when you need to worry :)
ANPR Possibly Illegal - No FM2R
You don't have to be efficient if you're prepared to throw endless funds and resources at a project, just persistent.
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Armitage Shanks {p}
Lady had £1000 worth of vandal damage to her car recently, all caught on CCTV. The 'Authorities' didn't have the time or inclination to look thru 10 hours of tape. I know nothing about this but I would have thought it could be scanned in 'Fast Forward' mode and slowed down when Chav activity was detected!
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Hamsafar
Of course AS, usually it is on hard disk these days and the timeline can be scrubbed back and forth in seconds until the incident is found. Even with tapes, or more basic systems, you can fast forward halfway through, if the event hadn't happened, you fast forward half way again, if it had half way back, keep halving until you find the incident. Quiet easy really.
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Westpig
Of course AS, usually it is on hard disk these days
and the timeline can be scrubbed back and forth in seconds
until the incident is found. Even with tapes, or more basic
systems, you can fast forward halfway through, if the event hadn't
happened, you fast forward half way again, if it had half
way back, keep halving until you find the incident. Quiet easy
really.

not at all easy, in fact quite difficult...if you don't have the equipment to put the disc in......or haven't the faintest idea how to use it, because you haven't and won't have any training, because it all costs money that isn't available
ANPR Possibly Illegal - doug_523i
Ah, you didn't watch Traffic Cops, where a woman with up to date insurance was about to have her car impounded because the insurance database wasn't accurate, it was only a relative turning up before the tow truck that saved her day being ruined. Having a taxed and insured car she didn't have anything to hide, until the anpr system turned up. It's public sector, of course we should be afraid.
ANPR Possibly Illegal - moonshine

I work in the IT department of an large insurance company. I am currently working on projects that involve the MID database, while the dataebase is probably 95% accurate is most certainly not 100% accurate. Computers and computer based systems are merely a 'tool', they are only as accurate as the data entered on them and even then the data is open to corruption and error.

Having said that I believe the system is an excellent first line in detecting crime. I believe it should be treated as a 'lead' rather than 'the computer says you are guilty so you must be'
ANPR Possibly Illegal - teabelly
A recent report from the DVLA about their regular stop checks showed that 12% of vehicles stopped were incorrectly flagged as uninsured when they had insurance. It only takes a simple typo with the reg plate or a mistake to mark a car as uninsured. That's a lot of incorrectly crushed or towed away cars with people being shoved out of their car and forced to get home another way. The number of incorrectly registered cars was even higher. A third of all they stopped I think had something inconsistent in the registration.

Cloned vehicles are very difficult to deal with. If a cloner gets the legit details then all they have to do is to fabricate some proof of identity to show the real keeper's information. Proving it wasn't you unless they were stopped by a real copper and photographed would be very difficult.

ANPR systems aren't going to be 100% accurate at reading plates anyway. Funny fonts, different positioning and dirt will all lead to misreads. The data will be misused. Imagine being in the vicinity of a bank robbery by coincidence and being accused of being involved! There's too much of guilty until proved innocent. If you get stung for the kengestion charge with a cloned plate you have to fight like mad to get the charge and the fine removed. If you had no alibi for the time or day in question then you'd be knackered. Most cloners are intelligent enough to choose an identical vehicle so it makes it even harder to prove the cloned car wasn't yours. Unfortunately due to a lot of lying scumbags the genuinely innocent victims will be having a much rougher time.
teabelly
ANPR Possibly Illegal - Robbie
Most cloners are intelligent enough to choose an identical vehicle so it makes it even harder to prove the cloned car wasn't yours. Unfortunately due to a lot of lying scumbags the genuinely innocent victims will be having a much rougher time.
.
teabelly


A friend was telling me yesterday about his boss's wife who had a visit from the police because she was alleged to have not paid for petrol from an Asda station. She was quite upset and showed them her receipts. They went away satisfied. A week or so later they returned again as she was supposed to have done the same thing. The picture from the CCTV clearly showed a silver Audi with her reg. However, her's is a convertible, but the miscreant's vehicle was a saloon. She pointed this out to the police officers who departed, somewhta mystified that they hadn't picked this up.

Mean Spirited - tack
I think that we have a problem at present. Surveillance has increased dramatically over the past few years. Problem is though that the crime rate hasn't decreased as a result. Apart from individual cases where some crimes have been solved, most of the surveillance is aimed at the easy targets in society. There seems to be a certain mean spiritedness amongst our functionaries who delight in relieving otherwise law abiding people of their cash. Why? because they pay up! They might grumble, but they pay up. Problem junction? Put cameras up. ........... Problem yobs on a street corner making lives a misery? Put cameras up or send a patrol? Fat chance!

Surveillance increasingly seems to be a tax gathering measure, a bit like the lottery really. Now, I am not saying that CCTV is wrong, but I would like to see a balance and as much effort on catching those who seem intent on ruining our lives in so many other vicious ways.

The daft thing is that RIPA puts so many administrative and complex paper filling obstacles in the way of investigating serious crime and catching real criminals, but putting up a speed camera, junction camera, bus lane camera is easier by comparison. With RIPA you always have to set out how you would minimise collateral intrusion into other peoples lives, no such thing exists for a scamera.

Lets have more balance from the authorities.

 

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