Anyone else experienced this please?
Noticed the other day that our 52 Jazz was misting up quite seriously in the back.
I felt the carpet behind front passenger seat and it, as well as the carpet under the mat, was pretty damp.
I see that others on the Internet have mentioned this as a weakness of the Jazz, but no-one mentions how to stop it occurring :-(
Anyone got a step by step suggestion to sort this out please?
MTIA
Andy
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Dont know about the jazz in particular but obvious possibilities include, leaking via door seals, or door mirrors even. Major possibility is sunroof if its fitted.
But a way to try and trace the leak source is sprinkle talc over the floor, (dry bits) . When it rains next check where talc has run from and it should give a major clur to the source of the water and its cure !
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from the HJ car by car breakdown: "Two complaints within a few days of each other of rear doors letting in water, possibly through waterproof membranes cracked by frost."
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Yorkie - thanks for the talc tip - worth a try.
Marlot - I had seen that but was a bit mistified by the waterproof membranes comment.
I guess its the more commonly called "vapour barrier" in the door itself.
Anyway, will try dousing the car with hose (outside) and talc (inside) this week-end and see if I can spot anything!
Thanks both,
Andy
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colliewobble,this is a known issue on the jazz,honda have issued a technical service bulletin to resolve the issue,basically remove both rear door interior trims,remove the plastic membranes,remove the butyl sealer that is stuck to the door,reapply some fresh butyl sealer & replace the membranes ensuring they are well pressed on to the sealer. apparently that should do the trick !
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if it aint broke don`t fix it
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Grease Monkey, Thanks for the details of the TSB.
WIll try taking it apart over the week-end and have a look see.
Plastic membrane and butyl sealer! Would have thought that Honda could have designed the door layout so any water ingress (? via the window) would drop through and out the drain holes rather than rely on a 'seal' behind the door panel.
Ah well, I guess we all make mistakes.
Thanks,
Andy
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My how time flies....and I've STILL got a water leak.
Opening up the rear door inners didn't reveal anything, so I put it down to one of those mysterious things.
Yesterday I found that there was approx 4 inches of water in the rear tyre well :-(
Now I can see how the rear carpet was getting wet - it was slopping over from the tyre well, under the rear seat-back fixings (they're going rusty) and into the rear seat well.
Much dismantling of the boot trim later, all I can see is that there is definitely a leak that is coming in "somewhere" - query around the top of the rear light cluster level.
Its moving down inside the bodywork and coming out on the flat areas on the rear corners of the boot as well as from the cross piece on the boot sill.
I'm assuming that it is the gasket on the light cluster(s), but to remove them I have to remove the so called bumper.
Before I totally dismantle (it seems) the rear of the car, has anyone else experienced a leak from this area or know what the rear of the light cluster is actually like?
I'm assuming there's a gasket of some kind, but am now wondering if a judicious use of a black sealant around the entire lense casing would be an easier "fix".
Any suggestions from the experts, please?
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I would remove the carpet from the boot area, thoroughly dry it out using a fan heater and then use talcum powder to detect the precise leak point.
Regards
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I would remove the carpet from the boot area,>>
Already done - along with all side trims, seatbelts, and rear sill covers.
What I can see is that some of the water is 'appearing' from inside the rear (boot) pillar on an inside weld in line with the bottom of the rear screen and around the area of the rear light cluster and dropping down to the floor, but some is also finding its way down inside and coming out from the rear sill crosspiece.
The trouble is the 'mechanics' of the body layout make it impossible to actually see up behind this pillar, so I can't see where the water is actually coming in.
I suspect its the rear light cluster (both sides), but that involves removing the plastic 'bumper' which seems quite an operation, but I expect I'll have to go this route :-(
Strange thing is thay the leak is both sides which makes me wonder if ther could be another source of the leak (ie at the top of the bodyshell). For both light gaskets to fail seems strange.
There is absolutely no sign of rear damage/welding etc so for the moment I'm a bit mystified where it can be leaking - hence my question on layout of the Jazz rear light clusters.
Andy
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Ah ha! Think I've sorted it.
Just had a good look, in the dark, with my torch up inside the rear boot pillar.
(Each time before I'd looked in daylight and couldn't see a thing)
Now I can see that the Rear light cluster is an 'erring rouge.
However, where the rear wash hose comes out of the bodywork and into the tailgate, there is a moulded grommet that should seal the hole in the bodywork.
On mine its popped out and isn't sealing the hole.
Water can get in and go down to either/both sides via the bodyshell structure.
Thanks all for reading - only goes to show that just the act of explaining a problem can help the little grey cells work out the real problem and its solution.
Will verify tomorrow but I'm quietly confident :-)
Andy
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colliewobble,the leak you describe will be found by removing the roof trim that runs front to back on your jazz,where the roof panel joins the side body panel,they have found that the seam sealer used has cracked over time and allows water to seep in gradually between the panels,the fix for this is to remove the ols seam sealer and replace with new ,then touch up paint on affected areas, now for some good news,honda have released a new service bulletin for this (just today as it happens) & given this problem a warranty extention of a further 3 years(6 years from registration) so get yourself down to your local dealer & ask them to have a look.
post again please & let us know how you get on.....Good luck
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Andy - thanks for posting about this, pls keep us informed!
grease monkey - thanks for the info on the service bulletin. Are there any other bulletins (apart from the EGR valve sticking) that it would be worth knowing about for our Jazz which has just turned 3?
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hi bill,other than the egr valve issues & the water ingress,the jazz is one of hondas better built cars( made in japan) & gives very little trouble on a day to day basis,there are numerous technical service bulletins but realistically you will be in the minority if you do suffer from any of the above problems.if you do have any probs with the car,post on here & ill have a look for you,
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if it aint broke don`t fix it
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Grease Monkey - thanks for your further input.
As you can see from my other post I think (hope) that the simple expediant of replacing the rear washer bodywork grommet will solve the problem.........but I'll give it a good soaking before I put all the trim currently removed, back.
If I paled at removing the rear bumper I'm terrified of having to remove the roof panel :-)
Hopefully it won't come to that, but if it does, then its useful to know about the Service Bulletin.
Thanks again for your input.
Andy
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Paging Grease Monkey.............
I've just re-fixed the grommet and then watered the rear of the car. Its still leaking (sob..sob)!
Wheel well is the problem area - at least the rear footwell is still dry though.
You said in your previous post that Honda have released a new service bulletin for leaky Jazzs.
Can you let me have the details (or even a copy??) of this, so I can phone up the dealer "fully armed" IYSWIM?
Many thanks,
Andy
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hi colliewobble/andy,i cant really post the bulletin on hear for obvious reasons as there not really for public veiwing,your local franchised dealer will have access to all of these bulletins & should be aware of this issue at this time, i fully understand you wanting to be armed with all the info so you dont get the brush off etc,if you have any difficulties give honda customer services a call & they should help you get the car sorted....
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if it aint broke don`t fix it
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Grease Monkey>>i cant really post the bulletin on hear for obvious reasons
Ok, I can understand your position. Thanks for the help so far!
I think I'll be spending the week-end with my trusty roll of Duct tape and hose, taping every seam I can find to try and nail this down before I contact the local dealer.
Luckily it seems we're in for a sunny time, so at least that's in my favour.
Will report back on progress.
Have a good week-end y'self.
Andy
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Update........
Having spent an inordinate amount of time armed with hose and Duct tape, all I can say is I'm still no wiser about where the water is getting in :-(
I've taped every area I can but it still leaks.
So I've now admitted defeat and have booked the car in for the experts to take over. At least they are aware of the TSB that Grease Monkey referred to, so hopefully next Thursday's inspection will reveal all.
Will post results in due course.
Andy
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Update #2....
Turned up at Dealer and had a slight altercation over who was going to pay for the investigative work! Work sheet had 1 hour allocation, so I politely informed the Reception that I'd pay for 5 minutes but that was all (all the trim etc is removed from the boot area). Also mentioned the TSB and we left it at that whilst I went outside for a fag.
Receptionist came out 5 mins later and confirmed that he'd found the TSB details and so they'd look at it to see if it was covered. I suggested that they call me when mechanic was ready and I'd show him where the water was coming out in the rear sections.
About 10 mins later I amble out to see my car no longer in the parking area - it was being washed !!!! Asked the guy "Why?" and all he said was he washes cars...........and no it didn't leak inside, he was using a bucket and sponge :-)
Mechanic then called it in and took one look and confirmed it was a warranty job.
They're picking it up from home next Tuesday.
So all in all, thanks to Grease Monkey's input, it looks as though a satisfactory resolution is in the offing.
Suggestion to Jazz owners - check your wheel well from time to time, especially if you start getting condensation on the rear quarter windows. Also the space saver tyre needs to be at 60psi, so that's another thing to keep an eye on (mine was down to around 40 psi).
Andy
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Update #3......
Well, car has been delivered back and a good spray with the hose did not result in any water in the car. Hooray
...but all they've done is put some sealer on the outside of the body seam - from the end of the "roof rack" channel vertically down the tailgate hinge plate seam on both sides plus a couple of squirts around the tailgate strut plates. Its still squidgy and has been painted to match the bodywork colour.
Now I can appreciate that this is not a stressed area and modern sealants are pretty good, but from G-M's comments I was expecting roof lining to be removed and the repair to be effected inside.
Grease Monkey - does this fit in with the TSB recommendations please?
Andy
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Update #4....the saga continues
Well as I intimated, I didn't hold out much hope that the sealant down the outside would effect a lasting repair and guess what - it hasn't :-(
The first (and only) rain we've had since the repair and the wheel well has about an eggcup full of water in it.
Garage confirm that they've done the work as per the TSB , but are collecting it next Monday to see what can be done.
We shall see........
Andy
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Update #5.....
Car collected on the Monday (2 April) as promised and returned later in the day.
A couple more 'dabs' of sealant in evidence.
No rain (at all - unbelievable) until last night and lo in the morning - water in the wheel well.
Tried to discuss with Dealer over the phone, but apparently there is mass sickness in the Services Dept and no-one is available. Will try again tomorrow.
GreaseMonkey - are you still there??? Any chance of a PM with slightly more details about the TSB?
You originally mentioned removing the interior roof trim to get to the seams but, from the evidence of sealant on the outside, it seems as though a 'different' approach is being taken by Dealer. Does the TSB specifically mention *interior* panel removal plse?
Any advice appreciated.
Andy
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get a first year apprentice to live in hatch area for a week
do not feed it biscuits
ive just had a major problem with a boot leak in my car you really have to get in and use the hose pipe for a considerable time to find the leak
the talc is a good one
the dealers treat these as a moaning minger and try to turn them round quickly with a wave
do persist
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