not really needed to stop inocent members of the public and tell the to remove their GPS when parked is it?
bog standard vectra/focus would do that job nicely
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Its outrageous. There is at least a possibility here that they've got something I haven't. They don't need it. Ban them. Stop them. Revile them.
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Absolutely not what I'm saying, but that doesn't stop it from being gratuitous and unnecessary in my opinion. It wouldn't be (as) gratuitous and unnecessary for you or I to drive around in an X5 because we wouldn't have bought it out of public money!
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Are you saying they don't need fast cars because they've got helicopters though? Personally I would prefer them to buy and run a fleet of high performance cars than a fleet of helicopters.
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It probably makes more sense to buy the X5 than it would to buy a Range Rover at £10K extra? Or a Mercedes E320CDI instead of a V70 T5 because of the depreciation - the ex Police car centre at Brierley Hill (West Midlands) has a Shogun 3.2 DiD LWB etc.. 2003 with a 137K on the clock for £11K - now auction price must be around the 8.5 - 9K figure? Thats only £20K (probably only £10-£14K after discount) to do 137K miles which I reckon is about 15p per mile depreciation.
The Evo has blisteringly quick performance and after discount is probably only around £25K, maybe less? You can't get a quicker car for that I don't think....
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Drive Your Way - If anything can, TerraCan
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The Evo has blisteringly quick performance and after discount is probably only around £25K, maybe less? You can't get a quicker car for that I don't think....
But the downside is the running costs. Needs servicing every 3,000 miles, carp fuel consumption, expensive tyres, etc etc.
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From a financial perspective, yes, but from a safety perspective I'll take the helicopters.
If a persuit is so fast that it requires an Evo, Scooby or anything of that sort, then surely the it's already pushing the criminal well outside of their driving caperbilities and seriously endangering the public.
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Yes- but the Police would still need a car for when the criminals do eventually stop. And if the Police are hanging back they will probably need something quite fast to get there in time......
There's also the thought if the Police can stop the criminals before it becomes a high speed chase then that too avoids danger to the public. Of course the real answer is to have effective punishment rather than token fines.
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surely the it's alreadypushing the criminal well outside of their driving caperbilities and seriously endangering the public.
Endangering the public perhaps, but why assume that all criminals are bad drivers or inexperienced at fast driving? One of the train robbers - Roy James I think, known as the Weasel - was a racing driver, and I doubt if he was the only pro fast driver ever with a toerag side... I notice on 'World's Wildest Police Videos' (I know, sad, but I don't often watch it!) that although the drivers are invariably and monotonously described, in a sneering tone, as bad, stupid, incompetent etc., every now and then one of them turns out to be obviously quite good. It's rare, but it does happen.
And what on earth makes you think helicopters are safe?
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>every now and then one of them turns out to be obviously quite good. It's rare, but it does happen
Actually a lot of them are very good. It depends on your definition of good of course. They are capable of handling cars at high speed and most get caught when they decamp.
Alas however the days of the highly skilled "wheel man" for hire to criminal gangs is long gone.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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woosy rozzers.
Give them a bike and a bell.
Ken.
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Actually a lot of them are very good.
Not if we have been watching the same stuff TVM. A lot of them are drunk, stoned, half-witted or all of these things, and we see them driving up trees etc all by themselves. Still, some are good (although the commentary isn't allowed to admit it).
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Lud - how many innocent bystanders have been injured or worse as a result of Police helicopters?
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Lud - how many innocent bystanders have been injured or worse as a result of Police helicopters?
Very few, I'm sure ly... I was thinking of safety for the passengers, not the bystanders!
And why 'alas', TVM? Because of another large category joining the unemployed?
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Didn't a Police helicopter crash into someones house in Cardiff last year?
Would still like to know how a helicopter stops a speeding car, and captures those inside.
And as for the TV shows- if its the same ones I've been watching, how many speeding drivers actually drive sensibly once the Police back off anyway?
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French police seem to manage with Clios, old Megane estates and Citroen and Renault minibuses. Maybe their macho men don't have anything to prove.
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Don't forget that these battenburg scoobies et al (I have seen a Q-Car scooby stopping someone on the hard shoulder of the M3 and a Jag X-Type Q-car on the M25 though) have a deterrent effect as well, if you were in a stolen 1.1 fiesta, wouldn't it make you think twice about trying to run? the police also have Q-Bikes as well www.cumbria.police.uk/bikesafe/gallery_r1/pages/15...m , I think the police would be putting themselves at a disadvantage not to keep up to date, most German barges these days will top 140+ without much effort, I don't think a 1.6 Astra is going to be much cop!
re police helicopters, until they have a grappling hook like those cranes at the arcade, and x-ray cameras to see through houses, then someone needs to catch up to the criminals pretty sharpish to actually feel their collars no good just looking around while the astra pootles up the road.
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I wonder if one of them will take it out on the public road to " aquaint himself with the performance characteristics."
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The Evo might have been quite cheap or even free (for evaluation) as PR. Mitsubishi's HQ is in Cirencester, which is of course is in Gloucestershire.
Proton tried it with Avon and Somerset, hardly the same value or type of car though.
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in police pursuits the police car needs to be fast enough (acceleration,top speed & handling etc) to be able to back off from the crook when they are going through a danger zone and catch up again when it's safer to do so
this leaves the crook less threatened in the danger zone (in theory)
so that means the police car has to noticeably out perform the one being chased if it is ever to catch up again...
if not the danger is the police driver will hang in there and it's too dangerous to the public
you can't keep terminating police pursuits either, otherwise the crooks soon get to know that...and any crime would end up in someone hopping in a car and getting away scot free, every time
over the years the bean counters have cut back on providing decent tools to do the job properly. I think any force that provides something like that is to be commended, because they've thought it through properly, are prepared to take the inevitable stick that goes with it, to provide the proper tool for the job.
The mesage it gives out won't hurt either........some years ago in London....... the then Area Cars were changed from 2.0 auto Sierras to things like 2.5 V6 Vectras and in some areas an Omega 3.0. The pursuit stats showed a reduction because the local oiks realised the old bill had better kit.
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But surely if the police keep using faster and faster cars, then the crook will know they have to use a faster car to stand any chance of getting away with it. So, the overall speed at which persuits take place increases, the danger to the public increases.
Wouldn't it be better to show the crooks that they'll get caught by using teamwork, intelligence and a sophisticated combination of tools whether they be they cars, stingers or helicopters rather than just attempting to intimidate them with fat exhausts or big german 4X4s (which I still can't believe are any more use in any persuit than an Octavia VRS, by the way)
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But surely if the police keep using faster and faster cars, then the crook will know they have to use a faster car to stand any chance of getting away with it. So, the overall speed at which persuits take place increases, the danger to the public increases. Wouldn't it be better to show the crooks that they'll get caught by using teamwork, intelligence and a sophisticated combination of tools whether they be they cars, stingers or helicopters rather than just attempting to intimidate them with fat exhausts or big german 4X4s (which I still can't believe are any more use in any persuit than an Octavia VRS, by the way)
Helicopters run out of fuel after an hour (generally)......... don't like flying when it's foggy.......can't fly in icy weather.
....and in some areas don't fly at night.........furthermore it is extremely rare for someone in a helicopter to be in the position to arrest someone..........lastly they are extremely expensive and require frequent maintenance
stinger/stop stick is extremely dangerous for the operator and you have to be able to position yourself in front of the pursued car........which is not always that easy, because the crook is choosing the route
a VRS Octavia is no doubt a very capable car, but there are more capable ones out there.... if you give the cop the best you can justify/afford then he/she is more likely to be able to do a better job
as for the speed.......most modern cars can achieve truly frightening speeds in built up areas...would you advocate giving the cops 1.0 Fiestas in the hope the crook would only drive a 1.4 Corsa?
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Helicopters run out of fuel after an hour (generally)......... don't like flying when it's foggy.......can't fly in icy weather.
....and in some areas don't fly at night
As I live near the base and under the main route of India98 ( the met and surrey shared helo) i can say none of those are true.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Helicopters run out of fuel after an hour (generally)......... don't like flying when it's foggy.......can't fly in icy weather. ....and in some areas don't fly at night As I live near the base and under the main route of India98 ( the met and surrey shared helo) i can say none of those are true. ------------------------------ TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
The Met have just bought new helicopters, which have more range, most other forces can only last an hour, as the Met used to. The Met will not fly if the 'cloud cover' is too low, which i presume to mean fog as well. The Met will fly 24 hours a day, (never used to) but the counties don't normally.
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Helicopters run out of fuel after an hour (generally)......... don't like flying when it's foggy.......can't fly in icy weather. ....and in some areas don't fly at night.........furthermore it is extremely rare for someone in a helicopter to be in the position to arrest someone..........lastly they are extremely expensive and require frequent maintenance
Fair points all, but I'd still prefer them to be used where possible in place of cars in high-speed persuits because they are less likely to cause the crook to run someone over, overtake around a blind bend or take any number of other risks that seem like sensible options when there's a supercar on your tail
stinger/stop stick is extremely dangerous for the operator and you have to be able to position yourself in front of the pursued car........which is not always that easy, because the crook is choosing the route
I bow to your superior knowledge on this one
a VRS Octavia is no doubt a very capable car, but there are more capable ones out there.... if you give the cop the best you can justify/afford then he/she is more likely to be able to do a better job as for the speed.......most modern cars can achieve truly frightening speeds in built up areas...would you advocate giving the cops 1.0 Fiestas in the hope the crook would only drive a 1.4 Corsa?
You've hit the nail on the head re. modern cars and frightening speeds (and more foolproof handling thanks to ESP etc) - surely it is now unsustainable to answer speed with speed, or even with superior driving. In a high speed persuit, a performance car on the tail will make the crook more likely to drive dangerously in order to gain advantage by taking risks they know the police will be unwilling to take.
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Living in rural Gloucestershire, I hope that the Evo has decent suspension. There are places in my area where the roads consist of a patchwork of potholes connected by the odd flat bit
Any loose/false teeth will soon be filling the footwells.
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In the early 70s ,on the autobahn,the police used a Porsche 911,full rollcage and crew wearing crash helmets,working in conjunction with a helicopter to catch dangerous drivers.Was a sight to behold.
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"Wouldn't it be better to show the crooks that they'll get caught by using teamwork, intelligence and a sophisticated combination of tools whether they be they cars, stingers or helicopters rather than just attempting to intimidate them with fat exhausts or big german 4X4s (which I still can't believe are any more use in any persuit than an Octavia VRS, by the way)"
Dont the Police already do this by moving cars in front of the target, or on motorways surrounding the offender with Police cars and slowing down?
One option is to enable high performance cars to be immobilised remotely (where safe to do so). This would need insurance firms to insist on fitment, but would eliminate the danger before it occurred.
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>> Dont the Police already do this by moving cars in front of the target, or on motorways surrounding the offender with Police cars and slowing down?
Tpac...tactical pursuit and containment....
quite effective...but...... you need 4 police cars, with drivers that have had the training and all 4 cars can be trashed to a varying degree.....so quite expensive........(funny how it comes back to cash each time).
In the States they'll use CB and ask lorries to assist. Also in the States they'll punt the car off the road at any given point in a dodgems type manouver called the Pitt Manouever (can't remember what it stands for), which is not authorised over here.........maybe it should be .
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Also in the States they'll punt the car off the road at any given point in a dodgems type manouver called the Pitt Manouever (can't remember what it stands for), which is not authorised over here.........maybe it should be .
just looked it up on google.........pit = precision immobilisation technique
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