Could it be because if the rad is smashed by a rock they can refuse a warranty repair as it's not faulty as such? And so style over function as pointed out above.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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I would guess that a radiator is not terribly likely to get holed by a rock, so it doesn't strike me as outrageous, but I do agree, why not just have a cheap layer of protection? Strikes me as wrong.
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Radiators, and air-con components too - see my own tale of woe from earlier this year about this on my old Civic:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=41...9
I wrote to Honda pointing out that it is not reasonable to expect me to fork out £450+ for repairs resulting from what is essentially a design fault, and was met with a very polite brush-off along the lines of "it needs to be that exposed to cool properly". Funny how the Mondeo that replaced it seems to manage with much smaller holes in the grille, then...
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Somewhere in the Midwest of the US, in Nebraska I think, a stone or small bolt came up from under the wheel of a car I was following, squeezed through the flimsy aluminium grille of my Plymouth and pierced just one of the tubes of the radiator, causing much trouble (but no actual engine damage). I saw the small object flying towards the nose of my car, so when the temperature gauge suddenly went up into the red a minute or so later I knew why...
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I was told by the Main Dealer that my proposed Mod of fitting a mesh would "improve it" and no concerns re warranty.
No increase in engine temperature following fitting the fine Ripspeed mesh, even in the hottest weather and still, the fan has never needed to cut in.....
Just to mention, this seeming vulnerability was noticed by me from new. A few weeks after purchase, while still reflecting on the issue, a few pebbles fell out of the back of a builders small truck in front of me on the M1, bouncing down the road surface below knee height.
There was a * thunk* from the front of the car as one hit.
Examining it later, one of the water tubes on the radiator surface had been indented and a few fins flattened.
I just could not live with this, given extensive motorway use, here and on the continent.
Hence fitting the mesh behind the grill. It looks fine and it really does feel better having excluded further stone strikes on the Rad/intercooler.
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Yup, happened to mine, its so common on Tourans you can now get condensors on Ebay
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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And my 99 Mondeo
.... has the power steering fluid cooler mounted nice and low down in front of the radiator.
And yes it had to be replaced and yes others have reported holed ones. Fortunately it is only £45 and pretty easy to fit.
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Not that I want to point out the obvious, but radiators need to have a high air flow over them - hence, you can't stick them behind a metal screen. Something that stops a rock is also going to interrupt air flow over the radiator.
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Air does not need slats the width of my fist to pass through. However the clue probably is that
The underside of of my engine bay is sealed. Air can get in but not out. so rather than design an air path through the engine bay we lazily widen the slats to allow turbulent air spill out the front side wide slats.
Along witht he rocks.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I think in hot countries plagued by swarms of insects fine mesh radiator guards are pretty standard extras. Obviously they have to be cleared out regularly, but reduced air flow doesn't seem to be a problem.
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In theory a fine mesh will disturb the airflow and reduce the volume of air.
In practise, manaufacturers fit air conditioning radiators in front of the engine radiator.
In practise the largest problems will occur at high speeds when airflow is excessive and cooling tends not to be a problem. Fine meshes will imo have minimal impact on airflow in slow moving traffic when cooling systems are under most stress.
Having said that, there are or were cars whose cooling systems were marginal when new (Rover 800 diesel with aircon boiled on me in slow traffic at 30C) or become so with age.. so it behoves the owner to check before carrying out such a mod...
madf
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I wonder how easy this would be on my car...the engine radiator doesn't bother my too much but the aircon radiator does...
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By using the term rock I was meaning any chunk of stone, brick, motar, etc. However if we are going to be pedantic about every comment everyone makes on this forum here goes. I was thinking along the lines of a steel mesh as could be bought from say B&Q, it could even be galvanised to stop rust. If the cooling system could be compromised by fitting such a minimal interuption to the airflow them the cooling system is under specified in my opinion. As for stopping 'rocks' if a 'rock' as in brick sized hit your car I think that you have bigger things to worry about than just a holed radiator. Oh and just for info I've never had a car radiator holed or overheated come to that.
Now I'm certain why so many members have left.
Steve.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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I think it was your curious inclusion of the word "rock" that has caused the pedantry. People tended to think you were talking about rocks.
"Vulnerable radiators, Why?" would surely have surficed?
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Steve, I thought it was me ( are you refering to me) that used the term *Rock* in my subject title for this thread :)
To be honest, I thought this would do for purpose, Al;though I could have said
" small object, that could be stopped by mesh and that otherwise would damage a radiator"
Anyway, I looked in B`Q for mesh, but then found purpose made stuff in Halfords under the Ripspeed brand.
There is Stainess steel, but the finer mesh I fitted was black painted aluminium.
I managed to slide it into place by undoing some of the lower bumper fixings.
You could certainly throw a golfball at it with maximum arm power, this would put a dent in it but it certainly would not go through to hit the radiator.
A significant (IMHO) improvement, given that the radiator fins can be bent using just thumb pressure.
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To Cliff Pope, Oh, its you,
Sorry to *Rock* the boat LOL
Talking about "Rocks" Ever read Piaget re " Concrete thinking" ?
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Talking about "Rocks" Ever read Piaget re " Concrete thinking" ?
"The child is capable of concrete problem-solving. " That's me. Troubled by rocks? Fit a rock-guard.
Or rook-guard, in the case of aeroplanes.
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Fit a rock-guard. Or rook-guard, in the case of aeroplanes.
Interesting this... jet engines appear not to have any sort of grille to prevent the ingress of flocks of seagulls etc, although they destroy jet engines. Perhaps the fear is that while one or two seagulls might pass through and become fine pink mist without destroying the rotor, if they carry a wire grille in with them that will be a guaranteed dead engine? We need some input from an aviator here.
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"jet engines appear not to have any sort of grille"
Airflow really is important to jet engines, and the sort of grille that could withstand seagulls (or anything else) travelling at a few hundred mph would be quite an obstruction.
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My very thought JBJ... Even if conical to deflect foreign bodies, at the speed of sound or thereabouts it might still distort or break if struck.
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"at the speed of sound or thereabouts"
That square law is a killer, isn't it? Especially if the object is a bullet...
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Re Jet engines, there are several aspects to take into account.
1/ A jet engine Air intake is very large indeed. You can stand up almost in some of them, Therefore the sheer size of a grill means it would need to be a very substantial piece of engineering indeed with many supports and reinforcement if it was not to be forced into the engine on impact itself. That in turn adds weight and aero dynamic penalties.
2/ Jet engines have to pass a bird ingestion test anyway to obtain the required certification. They fire chickens through them to test it.
3/ You dont get rocks at 30,000 feet.
4/ Someone is cleaning rocks off the runway every hour.
In truth tho, debris is a major problem with aircraft engines on the ground, usually bits of other aircraft that have dropped off. The draw back is you dont know it, most jet engines will ingest and mangle most things, and unless its big enough or has enough mass to break a turbine blade you wont know anything about it.
Utill much later when the turbine blade gives up the ghost due to a inbalance or crack. For this reason turbine blades are xrayed on engine overhauls.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Re Jet engines...
Don't forget, it was ingesting a bolt that did for the Concorde that crashed near Charles de Gaulle. Jet engines may be designed to withstand bird-strikes, but its still a serious problem.
I still don't understand why car designers don't give more thought to how to protect radiators etc from damage, though!
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Re Jet engines... Don't forget, it was ingesting a bolt that did for the Concorde that crashed near Charles de Gaulle. Jet engines may be designed to withstand bird-strikes, but its still a serious problem.
I may be incorrect, but I believe it was a fuel tank that was holed by a thrown up metal object, it was not ingested by the engine itself, the leaking fuel then caught fire.
However the other arguments about FOD (foreign object damage) and jet engines are correct.
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Concorde hit a piece of metal on the runway causing tyres on the left hand main undercarriage to explode. The tyre debris, some of which weighed more than 4kg, punched holes in the wing, causing large fuel leaks, hence the fire. Both left engines were incapacitated. Other damage to the hydraulics in the wing made undercarriage retraction impossible. The extreme loss of power, coupled with the drag from the undercarriage resulted in the crash.
Very sad.
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>> Jet engines have to pass a bird ingestion test anyway to obtain the required certification. They fire chickens through them to test it.
Didn't I read somewhere, that in one test "they" forgot to defrost the chickens first!
Couldn't work out why the engines were failing the ingestion test.
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A fairly fine steel mesh used to be used to cover radiators and lamps of vintage cars for racing. Its effect on airflow is obviously minimal. It seems to me that if you live in a place where there are a lot of fast unmade roads, or are worried about damaging your radiator, it would be a good idea to get some of this stuff and install it. Radiators are surprisingly fragile.
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Now I'm certain why so many members have left.
I think it might have been because they over-reacted bizarrely ...
Oh. I see.
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Talking about "firing chickens into jet engines"
I saw a bloke take a cock pheasant at 70mph, The screen buckled in with the bird *really*embedded and crushed right in.
The suited driver got out with his shirt soaked in blood and other stuff.
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Hmm my comment wasn't pointed at either member who thought it was them, let's just leave it at that. I suppose that the thing that gets to me is how someone asks a straight forward question and instead of an answer they get their predicament disected. See the thread 'stuck with an expensive car' for a good example. He asked for advice on how to get out of his situation not how he got into it.
Anyhow this is too off topic. I think I'll spend my time lurking as there's some funny and interesting stuff on here.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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Here is an update on the radiator grill mod I did over 3yrs ago.
I never did get around to posting pics - but here you can see the original pebble damage that prompted me to take action, by fitting a mesh. And the almost pristine nature of the RAD fins as a result.
picasaweb.google.com/spamtrap362/Radgrill?authkey=...#
This may be a temporary image
Edited by oilrag on 30/05/2010 at 10:21
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I have had two MX-5s, a Mk 1 and a Mk 2, both have radiators lurking behind a lovely funnel shaped orifice almost designed to catch and direct debris into the radiator. There are many aftermarket grills to cover the offending hole of various grill density.
Being an idle beggar I have never bothered to fit one, but to date have never suffered radiator damage (I will next time out now of course). On parting with my 15 YO Mk 1 giving it a good clean the only damage I could see to the radiator was a few areas of flattened fins which didn't seem to detract from the cooling efficiency of the rad too much.
The biggest threat to the cooling I could see was a build up of dead flies and bugs trapped in the rad fins.
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Not only are radiators vulnerable,but but timing belts etc. How many cars have undertrays fitted nowadays? Any piece of rock or chippings that find their way to the engine bay could cause damage. I think some mechanics are too lazy to replace undertrays hoping (rightly)that most owners won`t notice.
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About 20yrs ago I had to hoick out my TR7 radiator and have it repaired after a stone from a newly surfaced road punctured it. It's still continent.
I've put an offcut of vinyl flooring behind the lower part of the grill of my Audi to protect the condenser which sits in front of the radiator. Thought it might warm up quicker in winter as well [but it doesn't] There's still plenty of airflow.
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Around forty or so years ago, as I was driving down the A5, something came between the fan blades and the radiator of my Maxi. It wrecked a couple of blades and carved a damn great lump out of the radiator, as I found out a little way down the road when the temperature gauge went hyper. All I heard was a sound like driving over a twig.
Quite exceptional when you consider the transverse layout of the engine and the radiator mounted on the inner wing.
That's the only radiator damage I've ever suffered (so far). My daughter's got an MX5 and I thought the radiator intake looked vulnerable to damage/blockage, but so far I've had more detritus in other vehicles than she's picked up.
Perhaps the designers know a thing or two!
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The only time I've damaged a radiator is on a Rover P6 2000 when I shut the bonnet without stowing the bonnet stay properly. It dropped into the rotating fan, which bent it so it pierced the radiator.
I was very fond of my Rover 2000. Luckily it was someone else's Rover 2000 that I did this to LOL!!!
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