Buses are best? - henry k
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6086668.stm

"More bus lanes should be continued across local authority boundaries,"
"These must be policed rigorously to stop car drivers ignoring the law, "

Happy days?
Buses are best? - v0n
"There is still a perception that bus services are generally unreliable and of a poor quality; that vehicles are old and inaccessible; that drivers are rude and that passengers are unsafe and uncomfortable."

Hmm.. it's not a perception, it's the truth. Just because it's airconditioned, expensive and long like bowling alley it doesn't mean it's not dirty, has no bubble gum stuck to seats by schoolkids and is not driven like lorry full of potatoes by complete idiot behind a wheel.
Besides, I can't remember last time the bus routes would actually go in any logical direction. You still can't get from Canary Wharf to Holborn, or from Woolwich to Bank, and my personal hate - most buses in capital repeat tube pattern with unlogical Trafalgar Sq. being centre point. It's neither close to office nor shopping destinations, so why would all routes go to Trafalgar??
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
Buses are best? - Falkirk Bairn
Got my Bus Pass today - Free Travel for over 60's anywhere in Scotland.

I have a son that lives 15 mls south of Aberdeen and from my home to his takes 1hr 45min - 2hrs normally keeping to speed limits - mostly Dual Carriageway 120mls or so.

How long by bus - according to Travelonline it will take 6 hrs 41 mins......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Bus to Edinburgh, wait, bus to Dundee, wait, bus to Aberdeen (passing the my destination), change @ Aberdeen for a bus 15 mls back in the direction I have just come from

I rest the case for the private car.
Buses are best? - local yokel
FB - I'm not sure that anyone's suggesting a bus for a 120 mile trip is always best. They are good for shortish trips to town centres, if they run frequently from/to a convenient stop.
Buses are best? - Roberson
I have a son that lives 15 mls south of Aberdeen
and from my home to his takes 1hr 45min - 2hrs
normally keeping to speed limits - mostly Dual Carriageway 120mls or
so.
How long by bus - according to Travelonline it will take
6 hrs 41 mins......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


A bit of an extreme example there :-p

I use the bus all the time to go to uni. Takes longer than using the car, but costs a fraction by the time you factor in parking costs.
Buses are best? - Dipstick
I live 10 miles from Cambridge. Decided to cycle last week. Mrs Dipstick neither cycles nor drives, so she is on the bus.

To cycle in - 45 mins to one hour (ok, I've not done it for years). Cost nought pence. Hurrah.

But Mrs D is on the bus - takes one hour (cos it goes all over the place first) and costs £4.50 return. Boo.

Quick calculation of petrol costs for lazy bloke's 3 litre car - costs £3.50 return for the both of us in petrol, 30 minute drive (cos of traffic).

Tricky decision, eh?

We really need an attitude from authority that says

1) The cost of cars is huge in pollution, congestion, time, hassle, accidents. (We seem to have this one already)
2) Therefore it will be cheaper to make public transport, in some circumstances, actually free.



Buses are best? - Altea Ego
"Quick calculation of petrol costs for lazy bloke's 3 litre car - costs £3.50 return for the both of us in petrol, 30 minute drive (cos of traffic)."

Buuzzzzzzzzz

Wrong answer dipstick < slap > ;)
Petrol costs is not the total cost. Work out your pence per mile, (petrol, insurance, insurance, road tax depreciation) then add your parking charges in cambridge, and then come back and tell us what the total cost is.


Whats the mantra of efficient public transport? INTEGRATION

Bus, train, car. Large out of town car parks with good RELIABLE bus links, stations with cheap RELIABLE trains and large car parks. Cars are reliable, convenient, but very expensive forms of transport. MAke public transport reliable and convenient and most of us would shift from cars.

VOte for me.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Buses are best? - GregSwain
Petrol costs is not the total cost. Work out your
pence per mile, (petrol, insurance, insurance,
road tax depreciation) then add your parking charges
in cambridge, and then come back and tell us what the total cost is.


Well, the government's trying to encourage car owners to use buses more. As a car owner, I'd already be paying road tax, MOT, insurance, depreciation etc, and I'd park on a backstreet somewhere (I don't live or drive in a city). Therefore I'd consider that my only additional cost for making each individual journey is petrol.
Buses are best? - LeighB
Whats the mantra of efficient public transport? INTEGRATION

Like when they changed the type of carriages on the Newmarket Cambridge line that our boys travelled on to school. They used to cycle to the station, pop their bikes in the luggage bay, then cycle from Cambridge station to school.
With the new train, only allowed to take 2 bikes and - IIRC they had to be booked in advance!! - result a lot of kids parents drove them in instead, and so did a lot of commuters who had previously gone by train and bike.
So much for INTEGRATED transport!!

Our solution was to buy a second cheap, old and scruffy bike which was kept at Cambridge station, never got nicked but one had the wheel bashed in on one occasion.
Buses are best? - Dipstick

"Wrong answer dipstick < slap > ;)
Petrol costs is not the total cost. Work out your pence per mile, (petrol, insurance, insurance, road tax depreciation) then add your parking charges in cambridge, and then come back and tell us what the total cost is."



Yes, I appreciate that of course. But that assumes that I would not own a car at all. Once I have it, then most of those costs occur whether or not I drive it anywhere. As it's not conceivable NOT to own a car at all (for me) then I might as well factor those out of the equation, as I'm paying them anyway, whether I bus or car or bike or roilerskate.

If you see what I mean.

Actually, if I had to have the perfect choice of transport to work, it would DEFINITELY be the log flume. I think they're brilliant, and would be ideal for commuting.

Without the drops. Probably. Although...




Buses are best? - Roberson
Whats the mantra of efficient public transport? INTEGRATION


Absolutely correct. Sad fact of the matter is that the North East (well, Tyne and Wear at least) had this. From 1980-1986 all buses and Metros were integrated, with routes and times which meant easy changing between modes and routes. However, someone decided deregulation was a good idea, and the whole thing went to small coals, with passenger numbers falling ever since. Even so, the North East still has the highest public transport patronage outside of London.

As always, when this is discussed, there are a few people which need to be treated like rare eggs (IE in a sterile environment and kept at an air conditioned 25.6 degrees C). Once someone has cracked the logistics of Public Transport, there is the important task of changing peoples attitude....good luck to them



Buses are best? - Adam {P}
Buses are great until you need one that goes somewhere that has a population of more than 5 people.

I used to have to get 4 buses a day when I was at school. Wasn't really any great hardship - I had a bus pass and I would have been knackered without them. But bearing in mind I was a young kid and needed by sleep, I had to be standing at the bus stop at 6:25am. Then wait in the town centre for 40 minutes, then get another bus up to school and then wait for an hour. No other way around it.

The journey home wasn't too bad but often I'd only get home at 6. That doesn't sound too bad but when all your other mates are getting home at quarter to four.....well - I was made up when Mum started there - put it that way.

THis new house we're in - well - if you wanted to get a bus to school (where Mum still works and where my sister went until July), then it would take you 3 and a half hours to get home. How long does it take in a car? 20 minutes tops.

I know we're probably the exception rather than the rule but we can't use the bus. It's as simple as that.

I can't remember the last time I used a bus - probably 2000 or thereabouts. But having used them every day for 4 years and having a car now, I can't see me ever using one again.

Dirty (inside and out), smelly (inside and out) and full of questionable characters with even more questionable hygiene. Although I'm willing to concede that could be just where I live.
Buses are best? - Dipstick
"Dirty (inside and out), smelly (inside and out) and full of questionable characters with even more questionable hygiene. Although I'm willing to concede that could be just where I live."

Crikey Adam, if your car is that bad the bus must have been dreadful.

Buses are best? - Adam {P}
:-)

The buses were driven better though.
Buses are best? - Xileno {P}
Buses are great - for other people to use.
Buses are best? - Leif
Depends where you live. In central London buses are fine. In Luton they are awful. Work is a 2 mile journey. By car, it take between 8 and 15 minutes. By bus it takes 10 minute walk to bus stop, wait for bus, 20 minutes by bus, 5-10 minute walk from bus stop. So maybe 45 minutes assuming the bus is on time. And those walks might be in freezing rain. It was as bad in Sough. Plus the bus is often full of noisy squabbling children, and there's usually one morbidly obese person with acute BO who sits next to me.

Oh yes, and congestion is made worse in Luton by bus lanes, which are usually empty.

And buses stink something rotten. If you've been on a push bike behind one, you'll know what I mean. They do ~5 mpg if I recall correctly. So compared to my Ford Ka that does 40mpg, you need 8 passengers in a bus to make it less polluting than my car. Or 16 if I have 1 passenger. Usually they have no more than a few, except at peak times.
Buses are best? - DP
I haven't stepped foot on a bus (apart from car park courtesy buses at events and shows) for about 10 years, and would only do so again if my car, bicycle or legs were out of order. All three would be preferable choices of transport as far as I am concerned.
Buses are best? - helicopter
I think buses are the work of the Devil....... Last bus I was on -many years ago had an old boy behind me coughing his lungs out , you know that sort of death rattle coughs and sneezes that start from somewhere down by the ankles .......ending with phlegm flying everywhere -Nice NOT.

Far be from me to tell you what to do Leif but if my work was two miles away and I had the choice then I could easily walk it in half an hour so why hang around waiting for a bus if its going to take 45 minutes?

A lovely brisk walk will warm you up in that freezing rain.

Buses are best? - mss1tw
Work is a 2 mile journey. By
car, it take between 8 and 15 minutes. By bus it
takes 10 minute walk to bus stop, wait for bus, 20
minutes by bus, 5-10 minute walk from bus stop. So maybe
45 minutes assuming the bus is on time.


How slow do you walk? I can do a mile in about 15 minutes.
Buses are best? - Leif
How slow do you walk? I can do a mile in
about 15 minutes.


Me too. It takes me at least 40 minutes to walk it so it is a bit more than 2 miles which is a bit far for me, plus the walk is along busy roads, dual carriageways etc with car/bus fumes and noise so it is not pleasant. But for years I did walk the 3 miles to and from work each day along the A4 in Sough until I learnt to drive at the age of 35.

I would cycle (used to cycle from Alperton to South Kensington each day) but the drivers in Luton are dangerous and I don't have the nerve. (Two recent near head on collisions with cars driving the wrong way down a one way street is typical. One expected me to reverse my car to allow him to pass.)
Buses are best? - Tomo
"Got my Bus Pass today - Free Travel for over 60's anywhere in Scotland."

Actually, its not free, it's paid for by me and you and others.

As for myself, at 79 I do not even know how to get one (nor do I care). In fairness I should get cheap petrol!


Buses are best? - R75
In fairness I should
get cheap petrol!



Superb, made me laugh out loud did that.
Buses are best? - TheOilBurner
Echoing what other people have said about the time taken from A-B for buses...

I live 5 minutes walk from a major bus route in a commuter town. My work is 1 min walk from several major routes in a big city.

Only 1 change required to get from A->B. Distance via the bus routes about 20 miles.

Sounds good for bus travel eh? No extreme example or anything like that.

The problem is, the first bus is only once every half hour (and that's during the peak hours) - this is the only bus route from Town to City. It also stops and waits for 15 mins minimum at the town's bus station. The change from bus 1 to bus 2 isn't a problem, because the city buses are more frequent.

All the same, it takes around 2 hours in a bus (from experience) to wind it's way all round the various estates, and stopping every few minutes to pick up/drop off. In a car, it takes around 35 mins to 60 mins depending on traffic. Never more than 1.5 hours even after a major smash on the motorway.
OK - I don't choose the same route as the bus, because the bus takes the bust A-roads and a use the motorways instead. But that's the point isn't it? Buses have to go along the busy roads to pick up the most passengers and link up between major residential areas.

So, do I want to lose at least 2 hours a day of my busy life and not see my kids before bedtime? Not even if the buses were free. There is no limit to how much fuel duty, road tax etc I would pay for this, which is exactly the problem from a tax point of view. Councils and the gov't can tax and toll all they like and know we'll keep paying.
Buses are best? - Westpig
Buses are best? - R75
for me to voluntarily get on a bus it would need
the following to be addressed:

>>........................................... teenage groping,

Now that is one thing that would get me on a bus, not a lot else would mind!!!!
Buses are best? - AlanGowdy
I drive to work. It takes 35-40 minutes. I stay warm and dry and listen to my own choice of material on the radio. I don't have to share my personal space with people who don't bath or who talk loudly to themselves or threaten me with violence unless I give them my wallet or mobile phone (apologies to the vast majority of long-suffering passengers for whom this does not apply).

Public transport for the trip would involve two (slow) buses, a train and a walk. Although the last of these would undoubtedly be healthier than driving, the journey time would extend to rather more than two hours and cost perhaps four times as much as the fuel my car will burn on the trip.

What more can I add?

Buses are best? - barney100
I suspect I am like thousands of others. Public transport does not cover where I want to go at the times I need to be there. I imagine much of the country has to rely on the car because we have built our lives around freedom of personal movement...i.e. the car.
Buses are best? - Cliff Pope
I suspect I am like thousands of others. Public transport does
not cover where I want to go at the times I
need to be there. I imagine much of the country has
to rely on the car because we have built our lives
around freedom of personal movement...i.e. the car.


Exactly. A hundred years ago we could have adopted a different pattern of life and done things differently. Now it is too late to change. Urging people to use buses instead of cars is as pointless as trying to uninvent the bomb or undiscover alcohol. Nice idea, but utterly impossible.
A better approach would be to scrap buses totally and instead spend the resources on mitigating the effects of universal car ownership on the environment, and on special help for the old, disabled, etc.
Buses are best? - smallfish
Well for me in Manchester I could take the bus ? getting in to work takes 20 minutes for the 4 mile journey plus 2 mins walk at either end, owing to ongoing ?bus wars? we have a bus every couple of minutes as Stagecoach and UK North try to out do each other. Bus pass a bargain at £8.50 per week?

So why don?t I use the bus..? Because I want predictability. 90% of the time the service is great but once every week or so there is some random inexplicable delay which can leave me standing outside work in the rain for an hour waiting to get home, or make me 30 minutes late for a meeting in the morning.
The only way to be totally in control is to cycle ? I love it ? takes me 20 mins regardless of weather, traffic, bus timetables etc. Keeps the middle age spread in check? Cost works out about £100 per year (wear and tear + clothing etc).
I know it?s not practical for everyone ? I don?t need to wear a suit - but it sure beats a bus!!
Driving..? Well parking near work costs at least £5 per day which prices me out of the market? Though many where I work get a free pass for a nearby NCP, and during the winter a minibus to ferry them to the car park after dark. Public transport (or cycling) is never going to beat that!
Buses are best? - nick62
Why is it if I go to either the German or Swiss national railway websites all the travel alternatives including buses are shown for each route and they all integrate. There is too much disintegration in the UK, or reading it another way no integration whatsoer.

The bus I used to use to get to Lime Street station (before the train to the NEC became unuseable because of the silly times and price) was 90p. I used it yesterday for the fist time in ages and it is now run by a diffent operator, the cost................£1.50. I make that a 66.6% increase. I won't be using it again as its cheaper to use the car, (return cost for the wife, my daughter and me £7.40 for a 10 mile round trip).
Buses are best? - stevied
The only time I use buses is to get to Hanley (Stoke-on-Trent) or Chester for a night out (I live in Nantwich, Cheshire). It's slow, noisy and uncomfortable, but it's reliable and you can even get a bus home if you're willing to keep to the old licensing hours... the 84 service, formerly the C84 serves both towns/cities for any bus-spotters on here!

But if I WORKED in Hanley or Chester, I couldn't do it, because I'd have to get up at about 5am. It's just too slow! Even with rush hour traffic, it's 40 minutes to either place.
Buses are best? - stevied
PS Plus I'd lose the will to live putting up with teenage clayheads and/or plastic scousers every day....

: )
Buses are best? - boxsterboy
I work in London and we have to bank client money every day. A few years ago our walking-distance Barclays closed. To drive takes 3 minutes. To bus means 3 seperate buses, and would probably take at least 45 mins (I've never tried). A bus hasn't got a chance of competing, and that's without considering the secirity aspect. And this is in London.
Buses are best? - Sofa Spud
I like buses but don't use them much these days because doing so would add 90 minutes to my commute per day.Bus lanes are a good idea where they get used by lots of buses and reduce journey times significantly while not adding too much to congestion of other traffic.
Buses are best? - Westpig
Bus lanes are a good idea where they get used by lots
of buses and reduce journey times significantly while not adding too
much to congestion of other traffic.


it would be nice if they let motorcycles in them as well though, wouldn't it
Buses are best? - Stuartli
I live on Merseyside. Anyone over 60 (which has included men of that age from 2002 onwards) can travel on buses, trains and ferries from the north of the Sefton Metropolitan Council area as far as Chester in the south free of charge after 9-30am.

IN the area where I live the bus services are first class and run every 10 minutes on my route - they are clean, run to time and the drivers are generally polite and friendly.

However, if I wish to go to Tesco, just under two miles away, I use my car for the simple reason that the bus routes run from left to right and I get to Tesco going south to north.

To get to Tesco by bus involves two buses each way, along with the hassle of carrying several heavy bags of groceries on the return trip.

So I use the car despite the fact I can use public transport for free. I'm there and back before I even arrive at Tesco by public transport.

Don't get me wrong. I use the buses regularly as and when necessary and, over the course of a year, almost certainly get back the bulk of what I pay in council tax if you add up what it would cost if I had to pay. Adding the council's Leisure Passport, which grants the right to reduced charges for leisure facilities, including hiring DVDs, CDs and videos from the library, means I'm well in profit...:-)


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Buses are best? - Lud
And the sort of brisk and vigilant private automobile drivers who wouldn't get in the way ....
Buses are best? - Lud
Damn! that was an answer to westpig just above...
Buses are best? - Blue {P}
I caught lots of buses in London (not much choice really), where I found them to be reasonable, although fairly uncomfortable, and on one of the rides (admittedly the night bus) a fight erupted upstairs, some guy came down with blood pouring from his face follwed by a *huge* cockney bloke who threatened to "chew his nose off", to say I was glad to get off is an understatement. I also found the threat a bit bizzare, I've never heard anyone threaten to "chew" an extremity off someone before, is it a Southern thing? :-)

Anyway, that night bus reminded me that whilst buses might be a good idea in London, they are still nasty horrible things full of nasty horrible people (yes there are some exceptions) that I pay good money not to mix with, in the North-East they are infrequent and unreliable as well as been in competition with a much quieter road network that allows for people to commute into the heart of the city centre by car without too much trouble.

I will never leave my car at home in favour of a bus until the day private motoring is banned (which probably signal the end of the UK economy anyway), although I do whole-heartedly support the global "car-free Friday" initiative that ran recently where companies encouraged employees to ditch the cars as a token gesture on a one-off day. I support this as in theory it should make it easier for me to park at work, in practice however my employers reckon we saved just 16 car journeys (based on auditing of the car park over 3 weeks) out of a staff of over 1,600, hardly a blistering success :-)

Blue
 

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