Any car as long as it is a Golf - type's'
Not sure if there is any mileage in this one or if it will be killed stone dead, but there have been a number of threads (Avensis Vs Passat interior quality got onto the theme) recently discussing whether the Golf, A3, Octavia, Leon, Altea etc are one in the same car with different badges - apparently there are 17 different models across the different makes within VAG - all with same platform, bits, and engines.
4car.co.uk has just posted an article basiclly saying they are the same and you should choose according to your requirements, i.e. if you are image conscious then buy an A3, luggage = octavia, comfort = golf plus.

Is this marketing genius or does it cheapen the Audi and VW branding ?

My argument has always been that if you want one of these, and they are all pretty good cars then buy Skoda because they will be cheaper, will be the same car and according to JD Power etc, they also know how to treat customers properly.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - PoloGirl
Not sure... A3 *is* better put together than a Golf (shut lines, general feel of the inside etc), and in turn the Golf is much better put together than a Leon or a Fabia. I wouldn't say they're exactly the same car.

I don't think it cheapens the Audi or VW branding - pretty much everyone knows that a Skoda is the same as a VW, but the extra quality and feel you get with, say, the VW, makes you more inclined to pay the extra over a Skoda.

All down to personal choice and circumstance (I chose a Golf because I don't pay for it...if I paid it would be a Skoda) at the end of the day I suppose.

My money's on this turning into a "Skodas are brilliant and anyone who buys Audi or VW is a stupid badge snob" argument.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - George Porge
Old news, this has been the case for the last 8 years. In 2001 the octavia was too big for my garage and I found the seats did'nt support me as well as the Golf, the engines were inferior to the Golf PD diesels, so I'm a VW badge snob by deffinition. No!

Try them all, then choose what suits you best
Any car as long as it is a Golf - bristolmotorspeedway {P}
I don't get, never have, and probably never will, the idea of VW as a 'premium' badge. I honestly don't look at a VW and think of it as any more upmarket than a Ford. A 24hr test drive in a Mk 5 Golf GT TDi did not convince me otherwise either - nothing about it said 'upmarket' or 'prestige' or whatever to me. It's a mass market hatch, plain and simple. If I wanted the VAG experience, I would save a few grand and buy the Skoda.

I'm not even sure I believe the 'high retained value' argument for VW - by the time I had added the cost of a few choice options to the Golf, it was around the same cost as an Accord CTDi Exec, which, frankly, blew it out of the water for quality and pretty much everything else. I think the high retained value only seems that way as the cost of options is ignored when this is calculated.

The final nail in the coffin has to be the less than great results VW get in satisfaction surveys, and the myriad problems that seem to beset friend's Golfs and magazine long term test cars. In short, I simply don't believe they are a quality product.

I will say Audi interiors seem very nice, and they do have a nice looking range. I wouldn't pay £20k for a hatch (A3), but the A4 and A6 are very nice products. The only niggling doubt I would have is reliability (see ownership surveys again).
Any car as long as it is a Golf - George Porge
So you'd buy a Skoda and not test drive the equivelent other brands? The cars have similar drive trains, not exactly the same. My car will still be with me at 10 years old due to the fact I cannot afford to replace it. If I'd taken your blaze attude when I purchased it in 2001 I'd be crippled with back problems by 2011. We agree on something VWs are just transport, just a few people think differentlly
Any car as long as it is a Golf - bristolmotorspeedway {P}
So you'd buy a Skoda and not test drive the equivelent
other brands? The cars have similar drive trains, not exactly the
same. My car will still be with me at 10 years
old due to the fact I cannot afford to replace it.
If I'd taken your blaze attude when I purchased it in
2001 I'd be crippled with back problems by 2011. We agree
on something VWs are just transport, just a few people think
differentlly

No, I would not buy any car without a test drive. In fact, the Golf test drive was enough to put me off VAG diesels. I may well be wrong - perhaps an A4 or Passat TDi would drive completely differently to the Golf, but in my own case I chose to give VAG a miss based on one test drive. (incidentally ignoring the rest of the Golf, I really did not like the engine and particularly the gearbox - hence my belief that the other cars sharing that mechanical package would also not be to my liking).

It took me 18 months to decide on a replacement car, so not really a blase attitude, even if it came across that way. There were not many cars in the £15-22k price bracket that I didn't consider at least briefly (buying on a 3yr PCP meant the list price was not of huge importance). Everything was considered based on what I thought its merits and demerits were, after all no car is perfect. You're also quite correct, no way I would buy any car if the seats seemed unsuitable.

Buying a car to last you 10 years is also completely different to buying one to last 3 years, cost differences become much smaller when considered over such a long period of time. Glad you are happy with your VW and I hope it gives you many years of reliable ownership. My opinions above were just that, my own personal ones, I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me :)
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Gromit {P}
"4car.co.uk has just posted an article basiclly saying they are the same and you should choose according to your requirements, i.e. if you are image conscious then buy an A3, luggage = octavia, comfort = golf plus.

Is this marketing genius or does it cheapen the Audi and VW branding ?"

Whatever about marketing genius, its clever engineering to get 17 different cars from the same stock of components. VAG's aim was to have only two versions of every standard component, which leads to remarkable economies of scale.

As for marketing, the only brand I see having some trouble is SEAT. Audi and VW overlap as 'premium' and 'top end of standard' cars, and Skoda is now well established as a direct competitor for mass makers such as Ford and Vauxhaul/Opel. SEAT has a little more work to do in projecting itself as being 'sporty' or 'different'.

The difficulty, as pointed out above, is that the A6 / Passat / Superb, A4 / Golf / Octavia and Polo / Fabia / Ibiza are close enough that they compete with each other. VAG must recognise this too - they've tried hard with the latest models to put more distance between them. Looking at the Skoda Roomster and Joyster concepts and the Octavia Sout 4wd estate suggests Skoda will move more into niche markets where utility and "common sense" are selling points. Several different road testers have remarked on the downgrading of materials in the Golf Mk5 and new Passat compared to the new A3 and A6, and the new SEAT Leon and Toledo don't compete directly with other VAG cars. If the 5 door Golf was replaced by the Golf Plus, then the only remaining overlap would be in the supermini market where the typical VW, Skoda and SEAT customer is probably different enough - and the market large enough - that they can all happily co-exist.

No doubt, as competitors, Ford and GM would be delighted if these were the only difficulties either company had to face!
Any car as long as it is a Golf - George Porge
The bottom line is that VAG car buyers have choice of several different brands and body styles to choose from, where as if your a Honda devotee your limited to only one body style per model.

A bit of envy Type s?
Any car as long as it is a Golf - DP
A VW dealer technician is a good drinking buddy of mine, and he tells me the problems are shared among the different brands and tend to go with the platforms.

This guy is actually the only reason I haven't bought a VW (or one of its equivalents)

Cheers
DP
Any car as long as it is a Golf - George Porge
Good post DP, but do bear in mind your friend only see's the bad cars
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
I don't know what problems your mate is referring to, but surely if they go with the platforms that doesn't explain the disparity in reliability surveys between the manufacturers who share these platforms. If the platform has problems, then surely this should be an issue across the board and given the volume of units sold, they should all be languishing at the bottom of the reliability surveys. TBH the majority of problems i've heard of are not platform related but rather the electrics and electronics which seem to test the abilties of most European manufacturers. In this area at least, the Japanese have a seemingly unassailable lead.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Stuartli
The bottom line is that VAG car buyers have choice of several different brands and body styles to choose from,>>


If you see it in its logical form VW, Audi, Skoka and Seat all serve different types and sectors of car buyers and it saves a lot of development and manufacturing costs spread over the ranges.

But it is interesting that the Skoda Octavia, basically the same car as my Bora, a Toledo or an A4, consistently finishes in the first three of owners' reliability and satisfaction tests and has done so for several years.

Certainly I wouldn't complain if it had been an Octavia rather than the Bora on my driveway and, as I've often mentioned in these forums, the local taxi drivers took to them like a duck to water some years ago and many buy them from a Glasgow outlet; presumably they obtain a financial or otherwise advantage by doing so as it's a 400-mile round trip.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Any car as long as it is a Golf - cdb
I have a new A3, my other half a new Golf Mk5.

The main difference I find is the interior quality and feel, the Audi is on an entirely different level to the Golf.

However in my experience, and I know I'm not alone from a forum I frequent, the Audi dealer experience is very poor and severely lets down what is a very nice car.

We have yet to experience a VW dealer.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - George Porge
My nearest main dealer is 3 miles down the road, I travel a 50 mile round trip to my favoured dealer. Good dealers are out there its just a matter of finding one nearby.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
The first dealer for my wife's first Audi was shockingly bad and had we not moved house and dealer I doubt we would have had another one. Out of the 5 we've since dealt with, one has been ok and the other 4 genuinely top notch, couldn't do enough for you, so if possible I would take your business elsewhere even if it means a bit of a journey. Oh and make sure you fill in the questionaire you get after any work to let them know how disappointed you are.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
IMO the argument that you might as well buy the cheapest is simplistic. The tone of the article is that the platform is a good thing, since the basic floorpan and engine choice is sound, it gives each manufacturer ample scope to define their brand and differentiate their cars by setting the suspension, add their own body, cabin and fittings according to the market they're aiming at and it?s clearly more efficient for the manufacturer. Also more comforting for the potential purchaser to know that the platform is tried, tested and has passed muster and that they are not being guinea pigs for 17 new platforms and engines with 17 sets of potential problems with a need for seperate solutions. It's the same for all the volume manufacturers; if I were a purchaser of the S40 and Mazda 3 I'd be reassured that my car is riding on a Focus floorpan. IIRC the S-max floorpan is going to appear in a multitude of vehicles across Ford, LR, Volvo and Mazda often sharing engines and I just can?t see that there is any weight in the argument that potential purchasers should just buy the cheapest. Having driven an S-Max I'm sure that owners of the upcoming Mondeo will be in for a real treat as result of sharing this platform.

If the historic and current sales growth and market share are anything to go by then thus far it looks the brands have not remotely been cheapened, but the effect appears to have been synergistic. In that case I guess it?s marketing genius, which perhaps other manufacturers with sluggish sales might learn from.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Stuartli
>>I'm sure that owners of the upcoming Mondeo will be in for a real treat as result of sharing this platform.>>

But the Mondeo has always been an above average driver's car from its 1993 launch, so presumably the S-Max chassis is a real cracker?
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
True, but that of it's own accord didn't mean that the subsequent brand new chassis would be as competent or better. A drive in a MkIV Golf Gti was a bitter disappointment proving that new isn't always forward. The sorted chassis of the S-Max is a positive indicator right now for potential purchasers of the Mondeo, as the Touran was for the MkV Golf and if there are any bugs they'll have a chance to sort them out before then.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - type's'
>>>which leads to remarkable economies of scale.<<

Ah "economies of scale" - the enemy of lean manufacturing and the down fall of the US motoring industry.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - type's'
Just to elaborate on the economies of scale V lean manufacturing debate - that probabaly also explains why VW's factories are on their knees in terms of productivity and companies like Toyota continue to make huge profits and can't open factories quick enough at the moment.
I'm not saying that people do not want VW's - clearly they do but their productivity rate is woeful relative to the Japanese factories who steer well away from economies of scale.
They
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
You?ll also have to tell me what your point is here as well. What does the productivity rate have to do with whether platform-sharing is a brand cheapener or marketing genius? I also don?t see how this addresses the deficiencies in your suggestion that a potential purchaser would be best choosing the cheapest example on any platform as they are all the same car? Why not stick with discussing these points?

Looking at the latest UK figures, surely steady positive sales growth YTD across VAG brands speaks for itself, just as negative sales growth YTD reflects on the relative success of Toyota and Honda in this market. It is true that VW, like most of the older car manufacturers has had to deal with engrained management, social policies, costly workforce and structural problems but everything I?ve read indicates that they are making progress on this, so fair play to them. Both parties have lessons to learn in that VAG needs to improve productivity and Toyota and Honda need to make their cars more desirable to UK consumers and I hope that they both succeed for the good of the industry and the punter.

To reduce the platform sharing model used by VAG, Ford and GM to a matter of economies of scale is simplistic and misses the point. The model is a holistic approach and the benefits gained in productivity, cost and product customization have seen it adopted by many market leaders across the manufacturing spectrum. This isn?t the right forum for this and I?m sending myself to sleep but if you want to know more I suggest that you look up recombinant modularity and prepare to be riveted.

Please tell me that this isn?t still about you and your VAG thing?
Any car as long as it is a Golf - component part
They aren't all the same any hows. They share the same 'platform' and have similar technology and engineering-but they all look different, both inside and out, and probably feel somewhat different to drive. To say someone ought to get the Skoda because it's the same as a Golf, but cheaper therefore the best choice, is wrong.

It's like taking two identical houses in the same street, decorating them completely differently and then insisting that anyone who likes one but not the other is wrong, because they are fundementally the same.

It;s down to preference, and money.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - jase1
It's like taking two identical houses in the same street, decorating
them completely differently and then insisting that anyone who likes one
but not the other is wrong, because they are fundementally the
same.


I was wth you up to that sentence.

If I was looking at houses which were otherwise identical but one was decorated horribly, I'd take the horrible one in a heartbeat if it was cheaper. The first thing anyone does when they buy a new house is rip out the decorating and start over anyway.

As for the Skoda vs VW debate, are Skodas so cheap any more anyway? I see them as being on par with any other make in terms of cost really -- it's more that VWs are vastly overpriced when you add all the "extras" that come as standard on a humble Kia.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - type's'
>>What does the productivity rate have to do with whether platform-sharing is a brand cheapener or marketing genius<<
It has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I was responding to a statement on economies of scale that Gromit posted above - Gromit do us a favour and explain to Martin Sweeney what economies of scale have to do with this thread. I think I know but he is struggling.



>>A bit of envy Type s?>>
Not really Dox - I always buy based on relaibility and customer satisfaction so VAG can sell as many brands as they like for me.
I think I have said before the type s and Golf GTI were my shortlist on this occaission and Honda stole on it on the relaibility front. The CBCB will explain why.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - type's'
>>Looking at the latest UK figures, surely steady positive sales growth YTD across VAG brands speaks for itself, just as negative sales growth YTD reflects on the relative success of Toyota and Honda in this market. It is true that VW, like most of the older car manufacturers has had to deal with engrained management, social policies, costly workforce and structural problems but everything I?ve read indicates that they are making progress on this<<

The thing you fail to understand is that everyone thinks that Toyota and Honda have come along with their new fangled manufacturing ideas. Toyota's production system started life in the 1950's and just continually gets imrpoved. It is not new. What's happening now is that other car makers are realising it is hugely succesful and are imitating it. Toyota are not asking their workers to work longer for the same pay as VW are - they already make cars profitably.
Toyota are world number 2 soon to be number 1 in terms of vehicle sales. And you think their success relative to VW is negative ?? Wow - strange thought process.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
Their sales success i n our market, the UK, YTD is negative. You still haven't shown how your comments on productivity are relevant to the point made in the OP. Again you would do better to lost the attitude and produce something relevant and substantial. It appears that Pologirl was right on the money on summing up the motivation behind this one.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - bristolmotorspeedway {P}
Their sales success i n our market, the UK, YTD is
negative.

Probably nothing other than a blip in the ongoing success of Honda and Toyota.

The UK market seems to be uniquely brand sensitive - we as buyers get very hung up on brand image and it takes a very long time to sway our opinion. Compare that with, for example the US. Lexus launched there in around 1989 and immediately topped the satisfaction surveys. Sales went from strength to strength and now, if I recall correctly, the LS outsells the 7-series and the S-Class. UK (and mainland Europe) buyers are taking a lot longer to warm to Lexus. They are still seen by the man in the street as a poor man's BMW, when the reality is anything but. The story with the mainstream brands in the states goes back further, but I'm sure we all know that the Camry and Accord are consistent top sellers, and without having to offer the ridiculous incentives that the major US brands have to.

Incidentally, I read roughly the following in a stateside car mag early this year - "why do we love VWs, despite the poor build and sub-standard reliabilty? because of the way they drive." Almost the polar opposite of what we read here.

Would VAG be prepared to swap their clever platform sharing, strong UK market positon and struggling factories with Toyota's growing worldwide sales, lean manufacturing and mega profits? I think we know the answer to that one....

Back to the platform sharing - Seat is the brand that seems to be struggling the most with its identity. I'm not sure how their ambitions to be seen as the sporting arm of VAG fit in with the current midrange products - the MPV inspired Altea, Leon and Toledo. Platform-sharing, and the wide knowledge that this is the case, does do VAG a lot of good - VW and Audi seem unharmed by it, whilst Skoda and Seat appeal to buyers who want a VW but can't afford one. (I'm not saying that goes for all Skoda/Seat buyers but most people I know rate them because of the VW connection and the appeal of the VW brand).
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
What?s a blip depends on your perspective how far you want to zoom out. The most accurate and relevant current UK sales data is this month?s, pull back to the last quarter, pull back again to YTD and the sales still show negative growth in this market. To be successful I would expect to see positive growth. I am not for one minute diminishing the historical or global success of Toyota but what I am doing is providing by pointing out the sales figures in the market we are in, is a counterbalance to and a degree of perspective on the off topic suggestion by the OP that VAG are running a hopeless production line which is on it?s knees whilst the likes of Honda and Toyota are sitting pretty.

?Would VAG be prepared to swap their clever platform sharing, strong UK market positon and struggling factories with Toyota's growing worldwide sales, lean manufacturing and mega profits? I think we know the answer to that one....? ? You can surmise all you want but I doubt that any of us do. VAG factories and global sales were doing very well last time I looked and I?m sure that a lot of people would be hoping that they don?t start producing Toyota clones and that we can maintain differentiation in the market.

?Skoda and Seat appeal to buyers who want a VW but can't afford one? It?s your opinion but I disagree, as they have models which are strong and instinctive in their own way. I can easily see someone looking at a Touran or a Golf and plumping for an Altea or Leon irrespective of price. Maybe you think that every Toyota driver desperately wanted a Lexus but just couldn?t afford it? I don?t subscribe to it.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - jase1
Their sales success i n our market, the UK, YTD is
negative.


Who, honestly, gives a monkey's about sales figures in this country? We're insignificant compared to the world market.

In this country image is everything. Reliance on image is a euphemism for "can't be bothered to research what's the best product out there".

I'm sure VW would love it if the world were like the UK. If it were, VW would be producing cars with sub-Lada quality -- and getting away with it. BL did for years, until finally people in the UK got the message.

A silly little country with silly little ideas.

Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
?Who, honestly, gives a monkey's about sales figures in this country?? ? I?m guessing that as it?s one of the most profitable car markets in the world, probably the car manufacturers and many people in this country who depend on the industry. This silly little country is one of the richest in the world and we blow a chunk on expensive cars relative to many other countries. The rest of your post seems to be light on evidence and heavy on rant. What factual basis are you using?

Some people have silly ideas for sure but by and large I think it's a pretty good country with some great people.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - jase1
? I?m guessing that as it?s one of the most profitable
car markets in the world, probably the car manufacturers and many
people in this country who depend on the industry.


But it's also completely unrepresentative of the wider picture worldwide. When you have what will soon be the largest car manufacturer in the world as little more than a bit-player in the UK, what possible conclusions can you draw by looking at the UK in isolation?

As for "most profitable", surely this reflects exactly what I am saying -- the same cars are being sold here as in many other markets in Europe and around the globe, yet car manufacturers make more money here than elsewhere. This is in no small part down to the UK buyers' image obsession and willingness to continue to pay over the odds for the same product overseas buyers pay a lot less for. Part of this is our relative isolation as an island, but a lot of it is falling for the marketing-men's hype for certain products. And when we do find out about a car costing sometimes 25-30% less in Spain than here in the UK, we don't vote with our feet -- we grumble about it to ourselves and then go out and buy another one of the same model.

It's like the old nonsense about the EU. All the time we hear grumbling about leaving the EU, how it's no good for Britain (which is highly debatable but still). Yet every time a major party has stood on a Europhobic platform (Labour 1983, Tories 2001) they've been hammered in the election. Obviously not that important to people then is it?
countries. The rest of your post seems to be light on
evidence and heavy on rant. What factual basis are you using?


I take it you are referring to the VW/Lada comment. Well look at it this way -- for as long as I can remember, a significant proportion of the best-selling cars in the land are the ones rooted to the bottom of the customer satisfaction surveys. People clearly don't give a stuff about quality, they just go with what they are told. Hyundai base their car on a 10 year old Japanese design -- ooh you don't want one of those, old recycled technology yada yada. Ford build the Escort/Fiesta, based on a 40-year-old engine design, with poor customer satisfaction across the board, not a peep out of these same people. Other markets around the world consider VW quality to be verging on unacceptable (the USA as referenced by Aprilia), but we're still locked into the image thing. It's markets like the USA that are keeping VW on the ball in quality terms, I am quite convinced that VW could take their quality significantly below French standards and still sell by the bucketload in the UK.

Anyway this is getting seriously off-topic, the basic point was that the UK<>the world.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
You'd fare better if you dropped the sneery attitude and discussed the points you raised in your OP. I and many others have suggested that there are some serious deficiencies in your arguments and that the cheap brand vs. marketing genius seems to come down on the side of genius. Why don't you actually comment on what are your points?
Any car as long as it is a Golf - type's'
>>You still haven't shown how your comments on productivity are relevant to the point made in the OP.<<

Martin I'm sorry if it is difficult for you but they are NOT relevant - Gromit raised a point on economies of scale so I just responded. But let me educate you in a non sneery way - just to help remember. I've switchted the sneery key off my computer. (you are such a sensitive bunny).

Right let's take this steady for you. Economies of scale (the point Gromit raised - nothing to do with me) are the fundamental principles behind the Henry Ford method of manufacturing flow. Toyoda and his team (before the Company was named as Toyota - they sold the loom business that made them the money to start car production and all that) studied and thought it was good. Unfortunately he did not have the volumes and hence the so called econmies of scale that everyone thought were good and so he introduced the start of the Toyota Production System including one piece flow and this is the principle behind all modern lean manufacturing. The fundamental starting point for the Toyota Production System (The machine that changed the world - it's a book) was based on the error proofing technique Toyoda introduced to the cotton weaving looms he subsequently sold to the UK in the late 1800's. He had no other choice because Ford had volume he did not - but what a breakthrough it was.

Now this has nothing to do with VW not making the same car many times (I told cheddar that in the other thread by the way so I'm with you mate) - it was an additional response to some discussion further up the thread.
Are you with me now ?
Any car as long as it is a Golf - type's'
>>Back to the platform sharing - Seat is the brand that seems to be struggling the most with its identity. I'm not sure how their ambitions to be seen as the sporting arm of VAG fit in with the current midrange products - the MPV inspired Altea, Leon and Toledo. Platform-sharing, and the wide knowledge that this is the case, does do VAG a lot of good - VW and Audi seem unharmed by it, whilst Skoda and Seat appeal to buyers who want a VW but can't afford one. (I'm not saying that goes for all Skoda/Seat buyers but most people I know rate them because of the VW connection and the appeal of the VW brand). <<

I totally agree bristolmotor, I did read somewhere that when the current VAG CEO took over from Piech he wanted to clarify the branding in peoples minds becasue of the huge amount of cross fertilisation in the products. I think he even said if people want a Golf let them buy a Golf not a different badged vehocle based on a Golf.
SEAT was supposed to be pitched against Alfa romea in his thinking - but then as you say proceeded to design MPV inspired products.
Subsequently the rpeorts we now read suggest his days are limited nd the current Porsche boss is being lined up to take over. Clealry the close ties with Piech and Porsche.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - type's'
>>I?m sending myself to sleep but if you want to know more I suggest that you look up recombinant modularity and prepare to be riveted.
Please tell me that this isn?t still about you and your VAG thing?<<



Martin, you shouldn't do this to yourself - your not that boring that you should send yourself to sleep.
By the way I am totally riveted by recombinant modularity - it's awesome. A very good read and extremely educational - I can now see what VAG are thinking about.

By the way this is not my VAG thing again - 4car.co.uk started it - you advised me to get over it last time and seek help and I did - the therapy worked really well. Thanks for the advice - I see you as a father figure now. I love you.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Martin Sweeney
Type, I?m not remotely sensitive but what is difficult for me is if you?re going to start a discussion at least stay on topic and debate it rather than coming out with childish sneering. Gromit merely pointed out that economies of scale could flow from the platform share whereas you used an ?economies of scale vs lean manufacturing? argument as a basis for shifting the thread and attacking VAG. Economies of scale isn?t a holistic business model like lean manufacturing it?s a potential benefit which can flow from various models, so to use it as a basis for criticising VAG productivity is meaningless. Well now you?ve read about recombinant modularity and I?m at once surprised and saddened that you find it riveting; I must lead a very exciting life. I?m heartened that the advice took, but as I?m already maxed out on the kid front, please take it as from a concerned forum member rather than a father figure.
Any car as long as it is a Golf - Avant
This discussion is getting very esoteric. Surely the simple truth is that VAG sell several different brands on thr same platform because they appeal to different types of people and therefore they sell.

If they stop selling well (and SEAT looks the most vulnerable, without a very obvious image, unless they sell particularly well in Spain), then VAG will pull them.

I really don't think it's any more complicated an issue than that.
 

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