Bilingual road signs - P.Mason {P}
I drove to Hereford over the weekend, and thought (not for the first time) how pointless and needlessly expensive bilingual roadsigns were -
I came across the following in a recent copy of 'The Week':

'Cyclists in Wales were confused last week by a bilingual sign telling them they were suffering from bladder trouble. The "Cyclists Dismount" sign was put on a road near Penarth to warn cyclists of roadworks ahead, but the Welsh translation underneath ran; "Llid y bledren dymchwelyd," meaning: "Your bladder disease has returned."

It is thought an online translator mistook 'cyclists' for 'cystitis'.'

P.
Bilingual road signs - Adam {P}
If you take nothing else away with you from this thread - Araf means Slow.

Saved me loads of times that one.
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
And Hedlu means police.

And dual road signs in wales means extra taxes paid by english taxpayers.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - audiaudi
From the port of Dover, you have signs in English/German/French and Italian. IMO it is good and gives the drivers a reminder that they must drive on the correct side of the road and not the wrong side as they do in Europe.
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
wales means extra taxes paid by english taxpayers

And some people in Wales might say it was scant compensation for 500 years of oppression/occupation then !

SWMBO would say that English legistlation pro-actively set out to outaw the Language.
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
and others might say the welsh are the only true brits because they hid down the mines when the romans invaded.

It still does not hide the fact that road signs in welsh are there for political reasons and not for clarity, comprehension or safety.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - Adam {P}
I love weird politics that I can't understand. I feel really clever when I nod sagely when reading your posts RF.
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
The same that the Canadians have to have French/English signs. Makes you wonder how we survive in countries where English doesn't appear on signs eh ? The Welsh/Roman thing predated the arrival of anything recognisably English.
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
It would help if any proportion of the welsh could actually read welsh.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
20%
Bilingual road signs - Martin Devon
20%

Higher rate tax???????????

MD
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
It is all policitcs with the Welsh road signs. Especially north Wales. Before they became bilingual you'd often find them vandalised.

I once had a history teacher who went to prison for burning down a holiday cottage. You'd have thought that might hold him back career wise. But he became a headteacher. Sadly it may have even helped him I guess. Really sad.

And I went to a Welsh bilingual school in South Wales where English spoken more than Welsh.
Bilingual road signs - drbe
and others might say the welsh are the only true brits
because they hid down the mines when the romans invaded.


Bit before that, I think Mr F. My Celtic friends tell me (when we are driving, motoring link) that they were in 'England' when the Angles came across from Northern Europe - so they are the true 'English'

We - the English/Anglo-Saxons are occupying their land.
Bilingual road signs - Lud
We - the English/Anglo-Saxons are occupying their land.


Jolly decent of them not to be asking for it back yet.
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
"And Hedlu means police."

Sorry to correct but Heddlu means police. 'DD' in the Welsh alphabet is a single letter believe it or not and pronounced similar to a "th" as in "the" in English.

Single letters in the Welsh alphabet that have two characters are : ch, dd, ff, ng, ll, ph, rh, th. And there are no j, k, q, v or z. Although J is becoming accepted as in Japan but a purist would write Siapan.

So because of these letters with multiple characters, in Welsh "Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch" has only 51 letters but in English is considered to have 58.

Full Welsh alphabet is: a, b, c, ch, d, dd, e, f, ff, g, ng, h, i, l, ll, m, n, o, p, ph, r, rh, s, t, th, u, w, y

Okay lesson two, you can have words in Welsh only vowels and more than one letter! e.g. ŵy (has a ^ circumflex on the w indicating a long vowel sound) meaning egg.

There endeth your Welsh lesson for the night. We can all blame Brythonic P-Celtic languages for all your confusion over Welsh place names.
Bilingual road signs - Adam {P}
It's all Greek to me.
Bilingual road signs - Martin Devon
It's all Greek to me.

Elton!
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
AH right

SO only 20% of the intended population can actually understand what they mean (and they are all in North Wales) Whats the primary language of the 20% who can understand? why its English.

So the justfication for welsh road signs is......?
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch a place name that was totally invented to rip-off the English tourists, couldn't fit that on a road sign could you !
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
It's not even the real place name... so yes tourist rip-off can only be the reason.

You can fit it on a train station name plate though ;-)
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
Ah but its not on any station on the line of the ........

The Merioneth and Llantisilly Rail Traction Company
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
Pugugly was right that the name was invented for tourism. The original name wasmuch shorter and someone decided to combine the name of two villages to get the longest name for a railway station in the 1860's.

And TVM you're right it's not featured in Ivor the Engine... but both the childrens programme and the place name are in truth fictitious ;-)
Bilingual road signs - Robin Reliant
For the first few years I lived here I used to wonder where Abertiefi was, as it always appeared next to Cardigan on the roadsigns but I never went through it. Then someone pointed out that they are in fact the same town.

Incidently, some of the most fanatical Welsh language devotees are English settlers. Or Wenglish people, as the Welsh call them. I have a niece who goes purple if you remind her that she is an Essex girl by birth.
--
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
At least my place of birth in South Wales in on maps the same regardless of map's language. It's Maesteg meaning Fair Field but is always in Welsh.

Keeping this motoring related...

Bridgend (home of the Ford engine Plant making amongst other engines the Jag V8s) is "Pen-y-Bont ar Ogwr"
Swansea (used to have a Ford gearbox plant I think on the outskirts) is Abertawe

Lesson two for the night... Aber in Welsh is mouth of the river. So Abertawe is the Mouth of the river Tawe. Swansea as a name is a Viking name. And of course "Llan" means church. And "Cwm" means village.

Rob
Bilingual road signs - PhilW
"Cwm" means village

As an Englishman who has no knowledge of Welsh, I always understood cwm to be a corrie or cirque (glacially eroded basin). There is certainly no village in Cwm Idwal in Snowdonia or any of the hundreds of other cwms in the area.
Corrie is a corruption of the Scottish gaelic "coire", cirque is French, - there is no equivalent English word as far as I know.
--
Phil
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
You're right cwm does not mean village I meant to type valley. Village is pentref.
Bilingual road signs - andymc {P}
"So the justfication for welsh road signs is......?"

To remind you English that you are abroad. But you should still drive on the left.
--
andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
Bilingual road signs - Collos25
Wheres Wales?
Bilingual road signs - daveyjp
"I drove to Hereford over the weekend, and thought (not for the first time) how pointless and needlessly expensive bilingual roadsigns were"

Here's an insight in to why these signs are useful which may go someway to removing some of the ignorance shown on this thread.

My wife's first language is Welsh (she's from Cardiff thereby dispelling TVMs view that all Welsh speakers live in North Wales) , but has lived in England for nearly 20 years. She speaks English very well and has never really had a Welsh accent, but whenever she is speaking English she is actually thinking in Wlesh and converting the conversation in her head before speaking - similarly when she hears English she converts it to Welsh.

This manifests itself occasionally if she is concentrating on something. If I speak to her and break her concentration she often begins to answer me in Welsh. When in Wales she tells me she doesn't read the English signs as this involves her looking at the sign, reading it then converting what she sees to Welsh - the process she goes through when not in Wales.

Just because the majority of Welsh speakers (and incidentally there are plenty of Welsh speakers who can't speak English) also speak English doesn't mean it comes naturally.

BTW has anyone been to Galway? Get to the west of the city on the coast and ALL the signs are in Gaelic with no translation.
Bilingual road signs - cheddar
BTW has anyone been to Galway? Get to the west
of the city on the coast and ALL the signs are
in Gaelic with no translation.


Lovely area, I have family over there.

Re mental translation into a first language, I would say that your wife in unusual, most people, once pretty fluent in a new / 2nd language, only need to live in a acountry / area where that language is the first language for a couple of years before they think in that language.
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
There is no ignorance daveyjp, My wife is welsh. The family (5 generations at least) come from Cwmfellinfach, not a million miles away from Cardiff you will agree. None of them speak or read welsh.

Under no stretch of the imagination could you say that Welsh is anywhere near the first tongue in Cardiff.

and incidentally there are plenty of Welsh speakers who can't speak English

you know thats a lie. why did you put it here?

------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - Lud
and incidentally there are plenty of Welsh speakers who can't speak
English
you know thats a lie. why did you put it here?


I briefly attended a village school in Pembrokeshire where most teaching was in Welsh and quite a lot of the children couldn't speak English. Very puzzling to me as I couldn't speak a word of Welsh, and wasn't there long enough to learn much...

However that was in 1949 or 1950. I imagine they all speak a form of English with Essex accents now like everybody else.
Bilingual road signs - drbe
>> Just because the majority of Welsh speakers (and incidentally there are
plenty of Welsh speakers who can't speak English) also speak English
doesn't mean it comes naturally.


Nah. Produce some.

I have a shilling and a virtual bacon sarnie that says you can't.
Bilingual road signs - R75
Wheres Wales?


It's that damp place at the end of the M4.
Bilingual road signs - sierraman
Bridgend (home of the Ford engine Plant making amongst other engines
the Jag V8s) is "Pen-y-Bont ar Ogwr"
Swansea (used to have a Ford gearbox plant I think on
the outskirts) is Abertawe


IIRC Transits were built at Swansea-there was also a little Ford motoring museum at the factory entrance,you could just wander in and climb into a fully kitted racing Capri to see what it felt like, they had a GT40 as well but you weren't allowed in that.>>
Bilingual road signs - P.Mason {P}
Not road signs per se. but motoring related, I noticed when driving through Gorseinon that the local ATS branch were advertising special deals on 'batris' and 'exhosts' ....

P.
Bilingual road signs - stevied
So "Pobol Y Cwm" means People of the Valley? Excellent. A fine soap, even though I don't understand it.

Does anyone remember, in relation to the pyromaniac headteacher comments, the old joke: "Come home to a real fire. Buy a holiday home in Wales"?

On a motoring aside, I went to LlanfairPG made up for the tourists place not long ago. I couldn't find the famous station sign, but I DID see it in it's full glory on the local Volvo garage.

If Araf is slow, what is Arafach? As in Arafach Nawr? I THINK It means Reduce Speed Now?

Bilingual road signs - Robin Reliant
If Araf is slow, what is Arafach? As in Arafach Nawr?
I THINK It means Reduce Speed Now?

Probably English Go Home, or similar.
--
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
"Arafach Nawr"

It's "Arafwch Nawr" and does indeed mean slow down now.

I remember the "Come Home to a real fire" joke. Was it on "Not the Nine O'Clock News" or something like that?
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
fanatical Welsh language devotees are English settlers

SWMBO has become one of these.....!
Bilingual road signs - mike hannon
If you think Welsh bilingual signs are a pain, try driving into Spain via Bayonne or Biarritz, where the signs are in French or Spanish - but always firstly in Basque, which is at least as incomprehensible as Welsh to the rest of the world.
Presumably it is done for political purposes in the same way as in Wales, and to hell with the expense.
Incidentally, when I was at college in Cardiff years ago I spotted a direction sign on the road past the new Cardiff Bay development area that read 'Penarth'.
Underneath, someone had added 'the last resort'.

Bilingual road signs - mike hannon
I've just remembered, as well, whenever something in Welsh appeared in the Western Mail there was always a week of correspondence in the letters page afterwards about what it really said, or what it should have meant.
I loved my time in Wales and I still love the Welsh but I ended up convinced that they made up the language as they went along.
Bilingual road signs - mike100
And of course there's the bi-lingual signs in the "Gaeltaechd" (the Gaelic speaking areas of the north-west Highlands and islands) - although the Gaelic speaking proportions of (I think) 60,000 users to 6 million population will surely enrage Mr English taxpayer even more. Especially since, anecdotally at least, most of them are living and working. or studying, in Glasgow/Edinburgh - where there are no bi-lingual roadsigns.

Bring on more of it I say (one reminder when travelling to these areas of the diversity and richness of the history of the British Isles) - how about Scouse / Geordie / Doric roadsigns? Reminds me of that joke that did the rounds a few years ago of the Geordie version of Windows..................................
Bilingual road signs - Sprice
Its not just the bi-lingual signs we have in Wales, there's also the bi-lingual road tax reminders, log books etc etc. Now that's a waste of paper!
Bilingual road signs - mike100
Its not just the bi-lingual signs we have in Wales, there's
also the bi-lingual road tax reminders, log books etc etc. Now
that's a waste of paper!


I agree - bi-lingual documentation - total waste of time and money - save money - drop the English version I say!
Bilingual road signs - ffidrac {P}
Its not just the bi-lingual signs we have in Wales, there's
also the bi-lingual road tax reminders, log books etc etc. Now
that's a waste of paper!


I agree!

I have moved to Cardiff from the south coast of England.

I applied for a new Disabled Parking Permit (Blue Badge) and on the last page of the application (which was TOTALLY written in English) was a questionaire for ethnicity, which I filled out stating that I was English born & bred. (well the first 40 years anyway).

The Badge duelly arrived with the 'terms & conditions' booklet which was thicker than I had previously had in England.

Aha! what's changed?

Nothing half the book is Welsh!!
Bilingual road signs - tyro
And of course there's the bi-lingual signs in the "Gaeltaechd" (the
Gaelic speaking areas of the north-west Highlands and islands) -


Interesting that you should mention that.

Gaelic effectively became extinct on the Scottish mainland about 40 years ago. The vast majority of native speakers living on the mainland, whether in the Highlands, or further south, are actually islanders who have come to live on the mainland. The number of native mainland Highlanders whose first language in Gaelic is probably well under 1000.

And yet . . . it is only in the past couple of years that the craze for bilingual road signs has hit. They waited for the language to become extinct in these communities before putting up bilingual signs. (I stress that I am talking about the mainland. In the Western Isles, where Gaelic is still widely spoken, there have been bilingual signs for years - and the same is true for the handful of mainland communities where there were more than a handful of Gaelic speakers left.)

Of course, if you ask people in these Highland communities what they want their money spent on, they will talk about care facilities for the elderly, better facilities for young people, better roads etc. But not Gaelic roadsigns.
Bilingual road signs - Chris S
If you think bi-lingual road signs are confusing you should try driving along the Irish border. In the North the speed limits are in MPH while in the South they're in KMH!
Bilingual road signs - mrmender
Right that does it! You english seem to think that us welsh speak welsh as some sort of tourist gimick
AS a welsh speaking welsh man i could take you to DOZENS of people who's FIRST language is Welsh they know no different (one or two older people who can't comunicate in English) there are many many younger people who feel more comfortable speaking welsh as their first language.
AND don't ANY of you english use that old chesnut that as soon as you walk in a pub everone starts speaking Welsh. A load of bull! They were more than likely speaking Cymraeg before you walked in.
Mrs MM is english before any of you comment
I have no real oppinion on bilingual signs. There is lots i don't agree with in the way the language is delt with by various bodies.
The figure for total number of welsh speakers is i belive 26%. I would say that anybody born and brought up in wales would be able to read and probably understand them
What i do object to is the attitude that the welsh language is a irrelavance
Bilingual road signs - Lud
Salaam aleikum mm. Yr wyv i yn bachgen bach. Well I used to be, but not any more I'm afraid.

Seems to be a fact that local particularities and small nationalisms are coming back into favour. Something to do with globalization seeming to homogenise everything so that we are all supposed to share the wardrobe, views and general style of an Essex/New Jersey mongrel.

Personally I favour a bit of variety even if people sometimes seem to insist on it in a shrill way (not you of course).

There are lots of very small societies in Africa and elsewhere in the third world which are disappearing at a horrendous rate. You can't blame people for wanting to preserve what is specific to them.

As long as everyone can read the road signs I don't see what the problem is.

Bilingual road signs - lordy
Have to agree with TVM.

Putting aside cultural and emotional arguments. The hard fact is that the vast majority of the population of Wales do not speak or read Welsh. In this area, Gwynedd Council and Anglesey (sorry Ynys Mon) Council have a policy verging on discrimination when it comes to advertising for jobs. The catchline being something along the lines of, -

'because you may come across someone who speaks Welsh, despite the fact that they speak English as well, you can't have the job unless you speak Welsh. So there'.

Fortunately Conwy Council have seen the light and are a bit more chilled out.

Bi-lingual signs, and bi-lingual paperwork are an utter, monumental waste of money. Whether they are necessary to ensure that the language survives is a whole different argument and not one for this forum.

Let's be honest, there may be the odd octegenarian tucked away in a hillside village somewhere who ONLY speaks Welsh, but anyone else claiming to be the same is probably pretending.

I remember a story I was told about the friend of a friend, a Polish lady who moved to a small village near Pwllhelli. She had a bit of trouble settling in, with a few of the villagers refusing to speak to her. It finally came out that some of the old villagers felt she should learn to speak Welsh to talk to them. Her reply -

'I already speak one minority European language, why on earth would I want to learn another one?'

Can I just add on the usual disclaimer here. I've lived in North Wales for over ten years, I don't speak Welsh, but have never come across a situation in my business or personal life where that has been a problem. So if anyone from cymuned is reading this, please don't come and burn my house down. Ta.



--
let me be the last to let you down....
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
In your case Lordy, whats the welsh for "I always have the last laugh"
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
Talking to SWMBO last night, she syas that since learning the lingo (And now going for an A Level) she loves earwiggng in the pubs we visit there. Some of the Anglesey posters may know the Sailor's Return in Beaumaris. You'll be re-assured to hear they weren't talking about us but having an aminated conversation about Mr Brunstrom and his anti-speed policy.

She also pointed out that there was a campaign in the 70s where English road signs were taken down or defaced so I gues sit was more cost-effective to put uop Welsh only (as in Caernarfon not Caernarvon or Cnwy not Conway) than to keep replacing them..

Personally I say live and let live, there's no road safety issue. If it gives the oldest European language north of the Alps a little bit of a chance in this sea of Anglo American culture, I say its a good thing.
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
Quite a few years ago, when my brother's work team were having a meeting they went somewhere in north Wales. They sat down and those at the bar suddenly stopped speaking English and started speaking Welsh. Not only that but they were speaking about my brother and colleagues.

So they decide what to order, brother walks to the bar and starts speaking Welsh. Apparently their faces were a picture and they realised not only were they rude but got found out.

But whilst at Manchester Uni, you'd find the foreign nationals would often be speaking English then someone joined their group and they'd start speaking Chinese/Greek/whatever which I also found rude. So the small number of Welsh on the course used to speak Welsh in front of them every now and again to see how they liked it ;-)
Bilingual road signs - Vin {P}
Whenever I go on a tour of the Colonies and end up in Wales, I amuse myself for far longer than I should by trying to pronounce the Welsh as broadly as I can, so much so that it sounds like English spoken by a Welshman.

So, let's take one word. "Llath". Remember that "Ll" sounds like coughing up a greebo and that you slur the "th". Say it in a daft enough way and it sounds like a Welshman saying "yards". Instant Translation!

My wife doesn't find it quite as amusing as I do, needless to say.

V
Bilingual road signs - Lud
Remember that "Ll"
sounds like coughing up a greebo


No, no, Vin. Coughing up a greebo sounds more like the German 'ch'.

Charming image though.

What is a 'greebo'? Perhaps we would rather not know.

Welsh Ll sounds a bit like a very big snake hissing out of the side of its mouth. I can't put it any better than that, but I can do it all right.
Bilingual road signs - cockle {P}
As an native born Essex man with Geordie relatives and Welsh speaking friends I say good luck to you all with your diverse dialects and bilingual signs that make the British Isles what they are.
However, please don't think that the version of English known as Estuary English has anything much to do with the true Essex accent, it's much more East End than Essex.
Sadly the true Essex speakers are dying out rapidly as commuters take over all the towns within an hour and a half of London, most of the youngest are now in their sixties, but if you come across one have a good listen because they won't be around for much longer, mind you, you might have a bit of difficulty 'unnersandin ym, tickly if'n y taking boot Sm Bartles en Col'ster, booy.'

Bilingual road signs - Lud
As an native born Essex man with Geordie relatives and Welsh
speaking friends ......... 'unnersandin ym, tickly if'n y taking
boot Sm Bartles en Col'ster, booy.'


cockle: terribly naff of me. Of course I meant estuary. Many apologies. It's Monkey dust 'LUNDERN!!!' 'ESSIIIIIX!!' etc. and jokes, God, sorry, about 'Essex girls'. of course there's no such thing and so on, that make one make these mistakes.

Sorry.
Bilingual road signs - cockle {P}
Hey, Lud, no need for a sorry we're so used to it, it doesn't worry us anymore, we know the truth so it's OK.

Plus we've got thick skins, got something to do with the winter Nor'Easterlies coming straight off the North Sea ;-)

Mind you some of our local lasses.............they've got really thick skin on their mid riffs to keep the cold out even in the middle of winter!
Bilingual road signs - Vin {P}
"don't ANY of you english (sic) use that old chesnut (sic) that as soon as you walk in a pub everone (sic) starts speaking Welsh"

I visited a Cash and Carry with a colleague in a previous job. My colleague was at the other end of the aisle. It was my first visit to the place, and I listened as the owner and his buyer walked down the aisle talking English then switched to Welsh as they got into earshot of my mate.

That's not a tale about a friend of a friend. That was me.

Welsh roiadsigns are no help WHATSOEVER to drivers and are a (very expensive) sop to the Welsh.

V
Bilingual road signs - PhilW
How do the Welsh speakers get on when they go to then continent?
How would the English survive if all roadsigns in Wales were in Welsh only?
Can Welsh and English survive when driving in Greece/Russia/Saudi/Israel/Indiaetc - different language/ alphabet. How does HJ get on in Thailand?
I have a feeling that it makes little difference what language they are in. It's a political decision.
--
Phil
Bilingual road signs - Tomo
"Of course, if you ask people in these Highland communities what they want their money spent on, they will talk about care facilities for the elderly, better facilities for young people, better roads etc. But not Gaelic roadsigns."

Quite right. But nevertheless they push Gaelic (at all our expense) not least in highland and particularly island schools.

They would do better to put the effort into European languages, at which we are all mostly quite hopeless. If nothing better, the lads and ladesses could cope with, say, German or French road signs which tend not to be multi-lingual.

Oh, and a small correction - "what they want OUR money spent on"!
Bilingual road signs - tyro
They would do better to put the effort into European languages,
at which we are all mostly quite hopeless. If nothing better,
the lads and ladesses could cope with, say, German or French
road signs which tend not to be multi-lingual.
Oh, and a small correction - "what they want OUR money
spent on"!


All right. OUR money :-)

Personally, if they want to spend money on road signs in the Highlands, and fancy having other languages on them, I'd prefer that they would put up signs in German, French, etc, instructing tourists on the correct use of passing places on single track roads!

Bilingual road signs - malteser
I lived for quite a while in South Pembrokeshire - from where the CAR ferry leaves for Cork.
The area is known as "Little England Beyond Wales". Here the first language is English, the churches are Norman, the real local accent is very like the West Country one and when dual language road signs were first erected it was often the Welsh part which was defaced! All this goes back to the days of the Norman conquest, when South Pembs. was as far as the invaders got before giving up.. Strangely, the language divide follows very closely the route of the A40. South is English, North and to the West roughly as far as Llanelli and perhaps, Swansea is VERY Welsh. Just 40 miles separates Pembroke and Carmarthen, but they might just as well be in two separate countries!
Pembroke Castle was the birthplace of Henry Tudor and was beseiged by Cromwell in the Civil War.
The language divide is known as the "Landsker Line"

Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
Bilingual road signs - Cymrogwyllt
For the attention of those who think that Welsh signs in Wales are a waste of time:

1. What is the objection to using our own language in our own country?
2. God help you if you have to drive on the continent where all the signs are in a language other than english.
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
"God help you if you have to drive on the continent where all the signs are in a language other than english"

Had fun driving in Corfu years ago. Luckily I did A level physics and knew the Greek alphabet. Short pause to read signs and you were off again. At least Welsh place names can be read due to the common characters.
Bilingual road signs - Robin Reliant
The Welsh spoken here in Pembrokeshire is apparantly derided by those in the north and in the valleys of South Wales as not being the true language. Pembs people on the other hand refer to everyone else as speaking Gog Welsh.
--
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
"Gog Welsh"

Gog is derived from the Welsh word gogledd meaning north. South Wales Welsh speakers sometimes call the ones from the north gogs. Anyone familiar with the animated series "Gogs" should note it was made by BBC Cardiff... say no more.

But the Welsh language (accents apart) has differences north and south, e.g.

NOW = "nawr" in the south and "rwan" in the north (note they are the reverse spelling!)
MILK = "llaeth" in the south and often "llefrith" in the north

Weird language which gets worse with the mutation of the first letter of a word... I could go on but the Welsh for "in" is "yn" (for a place anyway as there's also "mewn") and so "in Cardiff" (with Caerdydd being the Welsh version) is actually:

... yng Nghaerdydd

Because a C comes have yn, it mutates to ngh and the yn becomes yng.

Need I say more. but I want the Welsh language to continue and prosper. Far more Welsh bilingual schools now than there were 17 years ago let alone 30+ years ago.

Nos da.
Bilingual road signs - piggy
Had the English not taken it upon themselves with their usual colonial attitude to change Welsh place names to suit their own "too lazy to bother" way with other people`s languges there would be no need for different ways of pronouncing (or spelling) Welsh place names.
How do all the forum little Englanders cope on the continent.? Try asking a Frenchman to have bi-lingual place names in France -and let`s hope you like French hospital food.
Bilingual road signs - Martin Devon
-and let`s hope you like French hospital food.


Pourquoi?
Bilingual road signs - PhilW
"bi-lingual place names in France "
Which of course they do - in Brittany (Breizh?)and the Basque regions to name but two. I suspect it also occurs in the Catalan region round Perpignan also



--
Phil
Bilingual road signs - Bromptonaut
Piggy is spot on about place names. Even then the vast majority are recognisable. Where thet are not (Abertawe, Caergybi, Yr Wyddgrug) addition of the English name to a road sign equates to the paint and possibly a few square inches of tinplate.

Similarly with directive signs, the translations and layouts are standard templates. The extra cost is just paint and tin - how vast is that?
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
SWMBO has told me to post "bethbynag" whatever that means. (probably a village in Mid Wales)
Bilingual road signs - Martin Devon
SWMBO has told me to post "bethbynag" whatever that means. (probably
a village in Mid Wales)

Apparently it means, " 50% reduction in fees for backroomers." Must be an abbreviation!

Night night................MD.
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
Martin,
She would never do that to me being an accountant.
Bilingual road signs - DavidHM
Nearly there PU. You missed some punctuation.

SWMBO has told me to post "bethbynag." 'Whatever,' that means.
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
For the attention of those who think that Welsh signs in Wales are a waste of time:

1. What is the objection to using our own language in our own country?

because most of your countrymen dont know what the hell they mean or care

2. God help you if you have to drive on the continent where all the signs are in a language other than english.

I accept that because they all speak the lingo.


Lets get a couple of points right,
Its not your country, its ours. Wales is not a country,
We ( the british ) are paying for this political madness.


When it does become a country, you pay for your own roadsigns out of your own taxes. Oh and you can pay to cross the Severn Bridge into England as well as we english paid for it.





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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - Lud
'Get your clog down, you foreign wimp!' in 14 or 15 European (more or less) languages... yes, I could live with that.
Bilingual road signs - Lud
Last post is not very serious response to Tomo and tyro. Sometimes one puts too much original post in, sometimes not enough.
Bilingual road signs - Dynamic Dave
Less general talk, and more motoring discussion please.

DD.
Bilingual road signs - rtj70
Maybe the thread has come to an end:

1. Welsh road signs and (some) road markings by law will be bilingual. We might disagree but we won't change it
2. Some Welsh speakers are ignorant and rude to non-Welsh speakers (I am a Welsh speaker so feel I can say that)
3. Overseas you generally accept the foreign road signs. And even in Greece some of these use the Greek alphabet and no English version in sight - easy to read if you know your Alphas and Omegas :-)

I don't think there can be much more motoring discussion on bilingual signs. You see 'em in Wales... and that's about it. OP sorry.
Bilingual road signs - Robin Reliant
Barking and Dagenham are experimenting with roadsigns which reflect the local community rather than following DoT guidlines.

No Right Turn is to be replaced by a board sayine "Leave It Out John", and No Entry by "You'e Havin' A Laugh".
--
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
Barking and Dagenham are experimenting with roadsigns which reflect the local
community rather than following DoT guidlines.
No Right Turn is to be replaced by a board sayine
"Leave It Out John", and No Entry by "You'e Havin' A
Laugh


eerr wrong language for Barking and Dagenham
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
Well I like them ... the Welsh that is, they have their own culture, plenty of good original modern music which is on a par with anything else in the World (if not better in some cases), some perfect motoring roads.
Bilingual road signs - Altea Ego
I love the welsh. Well one of them actually.

Seriously, I like the welsh, I like the country, I even like the sheep. I object to paying extra for the damn road signs.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Bilingual road signs - mjm
Don't worry, TVM, in future they will do two signs, one on each side of the road ready for when we drive on the right.
Bilingual road signs - Pugugly {P}
...and TVM just remember you'll have to love them even more when they have the monolopy on drinking water......
 

Ask Honest John

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