Would MINI been a success under Rover? - bbroomlea{P}
Was wondering the answer to this question after we have just got a MINI Cooper.

Within days of getting a cherished MINI we have access to on-line database with 'mini driving routes' across the UK among other things, 5 years further free servicing etc and so far a great dealer relationship.

It seems that buying second hand still doesnt water down the MINI ownership and it seems every care and attention has been considered to keep the MINI brand one of the best.

Although I believe that MINI could have gone a long way to save MG Rover if BMW had not kept it, I personally dont think the name and values would have been as highly regarded and certainly used values would have been a lot weaker.

Would be interested in whether you agree or disagree?

Would MINI been a success under Rover? - mare
Much as it pains me, I think MINI suits BMW far more than Rover. I can't imagine that Rover would have sold half as many.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Pugugly {P}
Possibly or even probably, but big advantage that BMW have is their huge international infrastructure, doubt whether Rover could have sold any in the States for instance. Whatever the the naysayers say in this site and others BMW have a perceived quality which sadly Rover could never manage despite the excellent 75.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - bell boy
rover couldnt market a bag of wind properly............
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Altea Ego
Its a stupid question. It would have been canned, and a re skinned metro would have been given the name MINI.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Pugugly {P}
in fairness om the 75 was/is a decent motor. A far more complete motor than the x-type for instance.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - bell boy
yes i agree 75 is a fine an dandy motor unfortunately to be fair it was also a bmw
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Honestjohn
The MINI has been one of the best combined product planning and marketing campaigns in the history of the motor car. Profitable for BMW. And good for owners because it maintained the value of their investment. On top of which the car is fun.

HJ
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Micky
">On top of which the car is fun.<"

With all due respect Leader, may I suggest that whilst the MINI might be of some interest to the average aspiring drone, when compared to a creation from, say, Z-Cars, it's an obese, hairdresser's car.

Simper, simper .....
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - bbroomlea{P}
Rover engineers were in the throws of designing the MINI at the same time as the 75, BMW were merely observing and ensuring the quality was there and no doubt using their experience along the way to ensure it was 100% ready to market (much the same as the 75) so the question isnt whether Rover could have designed a different car, but whether it would be more successful if Rover had kept it and sold it themselves.

Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Pugugly {P}
No.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Altea Ego
Without BMW the 75 and the MINI would have been canned.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - George Porge
Been asked to put this on here by a previous poster who's now banned.

I`m banned from HJ , but will you please inform them that Alec Issigonis` Mini was a success for Rover/BMC/Leyland, and it will always be a more successful car than the MINI
because it was designed for ordinary people rather than middle class fools with too much money. You can also add that the new car hasn`t won any rallies or races, the remake of the Italian Job was a total disaster, the new MINI is "gay car of the year 2004" and finally
the Rover 75 is a heap of scrap.Thanks in advance.

Rich.

There you go Rich ;-)


Would MINI been a success under Rover? - colinh
Depends how you define "success". Selling large numbers or making profits.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Round The Bend
Alec Issigonis` Mini was a success for Rover/BMC/Leyland, >>


No it was n't! The idiots actually sold it at a loss. At the time it came out, a concerned Ford managment purchased a Mini, stripped it down and costed each part and the manufacturing cost. The result, for a relieved Ford, was that Rover/BMC/Leyland were selling the car too cheaply. They had n't a clue!
_______
IanS
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - madf
Nice to see a poster being politically incorrect, factually incorrect, and banned...:-)
madf
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - cheddar
Come on PU, great car though it is, er was, you really cannot be serious in saying that the 75 is a far more complete motor than the X-Type, the 75 is basically a good car though it drifted in and out of actually making any money during its life time due to being fairly costly to manufacture and being made in relatively small numbers. Although the X-Type has not been made in vast numbers either it is actually a marketing success, taking Ford components, a little extra development and producing a great car, yes it could have done better, perhaps AWD could have been an option making it more price competitive and the Sport models would be more sporty if they had 2WD with the Mondeo saloon / hatch multilink rear setup, i.e. an ST220 chassis. Similarly the MG variants were fairly successful variants on the 75 though rather more badge engineering than NPD went in in the Rover marketing dept. The fact that it must have cost Rover as much to make a V6 75 or MG ZT as it did Jaguar to make a 3.0 AWD X-Type says it all.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - DP
In response to the original question, it would have probably been like the MG-F. A very capable, potentially class leading car completely ruined by incomplete development patchy build quality, iffy components and a list of "known issues" longer than the M6! This would have ensured that all bar the most committed badge enthusiasts would have ditched it within months and bought something German.

Rover also wouldn't have captured the badge snobs who bought a MINI simply because it's an "affordable" BMW and who wouldn't be seen dead going into a Rover dealership (I know two of them personally, so there must be many more).

So no, it wouldn't have been a success in my opinion.

Cheers
DP

Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Chris S
No - Rover had the King Midas touch in reverse, everything they touched turned to ****
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Roobarb
Get a life, charming way to carry on...politically incorrect, what/why? factually incorrect, what/why? and banned, I don't think he's upset about that at all...

They did lose money on the original Mini in the early days, for about the first year, thats all...You can't make money straight off on a new design anyway...Right little rust box, but people loved them, thats why they were made for 40 years...The new one will be lucky to see 10 years, and as for the Rover 75, nice to drive, shame they've got so many faults...Mongrel of a car....I wouldn't have one as a gift....
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Roobarb
What has he said thats incorrect?

Mini did lose money on the original for about the first year or so...Yes the little rustbukets were popular, thats why they were in production for 40 years, can't see the new one lasting more than 10....The new ones are status symbols, the old model was a car for the people, much like the Beetle was...
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Chris S
I`m banned from HJ , but will you please inform them
that Alec Issigonis` Mini was a success for Rover/BMC/Leyland, and it
will always be a more successful car than the MINI
because it was designed for ordinary people rather than middle class
fools with too much money.

>>
BMC/Rover lost money on every Mini they sold. Far from being a success it must have played a major part in the company's downfall.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - yorkiebar
And where does this information about BMC losing money on every mini they sold come from?

If they had used the money it made to re invest rather than sitting on their backsides pretending there was no competition and making every other (poor) car in 6 different badge variations etc then they could still be a good manufacturer.

management fault not a worker fault (though they were not blame free) and the name mini would sell cars whoever owned it!

Anyone ever wondered why the BM mini is actually called a mini? Its not for its size is it! It is just badge marketing!
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - bell boy
And where does this information about BMC losing money on every
mini they sold come from?

its common knowledge actually and well documented.I think it was even mention in iacocco "s book and he wasnt working for ford at the time
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Number_Cruncher
Under Rover, which engine would have been used?
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - yorkiebar
Would hope a Honda 1 ???
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - DP
Would hope a Honda 1 ???


Cooper S with Civic Type-R power. Mmmmm.... :-)
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Altea Ego
the K series of course.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Number_Cruncher
>>the K series of course.

For me, that provides the answer to the original question. Under Rover, the MINI would not have been a good car.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - DP
Surely, they would have stuck the K-series in it. In their defence, it would have probably worked brilliantly. For a bit anyway.

Cheers
DP
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - yorkiebar
Sorry nc but the original question was whether the car would be a success; not a good car.

Not necessarily the same thing ! And the mini proves this ??? imo anyway!
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Number_Cruncher
Fair point yorkiebar.

So, with a K series under the bonnet, I don't think the MINI would be either a good car or a success.

Although, you could easily argue that the style concious typical MINI customer wouldn't know or care about such trivialities as the engine having an insatiable appetite for head gaskets, as long as the car looked good.

Number_Cruncher
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Micky
K-series problems are all fixable, but it's a shame that Rover didn't fix them earlier ..... before the things starting breaking when the punters were driving them would have been useful. It's still one of the lightest engines available, but it's designed primarily for a shopping car. An unmodified K-series should never have been used in the MGF or the Freelander.

Even now, the K-series can be competitive. What might have been etc.

www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?essaykseriesf.htm
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - bell boy
K-series problems are all fixable, but it's a shame that Rover
didn't fix them earlier ..... before the things starting breaking when
the punters were driving them would have been useful.



ive just spit my tea on the keyboard..........thats so funny
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Roobarb
Thats mint:)
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Roobarb
Absolute rubbish, don't know where you got that info from
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Roobarb
Absolute rubbish, don't know where you got that info from


Wish you could edit this thing....This was in responce to CHRIS'S post
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Chris S
>> Absolute rubbish, don't know where you got that info from
>>

From here and dozens of other places:
classic-car.y2u.co.uk/Cl_Austin_Mini.htm

Sales were strong across most of the model lines in the 1960s, but the car never made money for its makers. It had to be sold at less than its production cost to compete with rivals.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Roobarb
>> >> Absolute rubbish, don't know where you got that info
from
>> >>
From here and dozens of other places:
classic-car.y2u.co.uk/Cl_Austin_Mini.htm
Sales were strong across most of the model lines in the
1960s, but the car never made money for its makers. It
had to be sold at less than its production cost to
compete with rivals.


I'm sorry Chris,but I can't see anything on that page regarding production costs or building it at a loss?!
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - yorkiebar
As i thought about loss making minis.

Not quite true. In the article highlighted it was the mini derivatives that lost money; in this case the mini moke.
overall the mini made profit . According to my info anyway.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - oldgit
Whoever owns the Mini need to redesign it to include a 5 dr model. 3-dr models don't add up in my opinion. Also the interiors need a makeover to lessen the cheap plasticky and gimmicky appearance - and the prices for what were/are essentially Chrysler-engined cars!!

It is amazing what badge engineering will do for car sales to those with more money than sense.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - carl_a
I think under Rover the Mini would have done moderately well but not as successful as under BMW. Rover had lots of problems but one sticks out in my mind, the company essentially was a small car company, that?s where all the successful products were, Metro, 200 and 400. Yet they tried to market themselves as something bigger and grander, that simply wasn't true and no one would pay the sky-high prices.

The Mini was going to be a BMW product a long before the Rover divorce, they knew what they were doing using the Chysler engine.

I doesn't matter how good something is to sell, the Peugeot 206 looks good and is marketed well but far from a class leading product, yet its been the best seller for private motorists. In the words of Bob Grant "People like trash".
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Micky
">Yet they tried to market themselves as something bigger and grander, that simply wasn't true and no one would pay the sky-high prices.<"

How true. The Rover 200 and 400 of the early 1990s were more than a match for the Ford and Vauxhall equivalent but the price reflected that. The early 1990s Escorts were appalling things, yet people bought them. The Focus was a big leap forward for Ford, and the 1997(?) Astra likewise for Vauxhall. Rover couldn't respond.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Dynamic Dave
Wish you could edit this thing....This was in responce to CHRIS'S post


You don't need to edit this thing. If you temp change how you view this thread to "view threaded" instead of "view flat" you will that your reply is in fact in response to Chris's post.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=45434&...t
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Xileno {P}
Do you ever get bored typing that? ;-)
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Xileno {P}
I don't think Rover could have afforded the expensive but hugely successful marketing that MINI had.
I'm not a great fan of MINI, viewed purely as a car I think it's average, bit uncomfortable for me. But as a complete motoring package, it's right on target.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Dynamic Dave
Do you ever get bored typing that? ;-)


Not as bored as I get with people saying it in the first place, and asking for edit buttons, etc.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Adam {P}
Can we have an edit button?

No. The 5 in existance are already allocated to people. DD
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - oldgit
Yes, I'd lik an edtitt buton aswel incase i make mystakes when tiping my postes to tese froms.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Adam {P}
I actually don't want an edit button. Completely pointless unless you can change other people's posts and start arguments.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Adam {P}
Hold on a minute - who's the fifth one?

Stephen Khoo - DD.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - madf
Would MINI been a success under Rover?

Well if so , it would have been the first and only one. I can't believe they would have broken the bad habits of the past 40 years...
madf
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Micky
BMW spent more money on the pre-launch advertising budget for the MINI than the total Rover advertising budget 1994 to 2000.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Roobarb
But the original Mini was/is a success
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Roobarb
Appreciate that, but the "view threaded" is enough to give yourself a migraine......Be much easier to have an edit/modify button so that you can change errors etc..
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Dynamic Dave
Be much easier to have an edit/modify button so that you can change errors etc..


But there were no errors to change.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Tomo
"BMC/Rover lost money on every Mini they sold. Far from being a success it must have played a major part in the company's downfall."

BMC/Rover lost money period, thanks to the unions - who, amonst other things, drove the best managers out of the industry or even out of the country.

Anyone got a decent Downton Mini - the 118 mph road job?
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Micky
In some ways, the creation of BMC/BL/Rover had to happen to gain advantage from economies of scale, but the end result of different models competing for the same market was a shambles. Lots of heads in the sand, and none of them looking to the east ..... no, not Trabant ;-)

German auto industry unions were and are stronger than their British counterparts.
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - yorkiebar
Typical, poor management blame the union.

Where was Rover (BL BMC etec etc) when they had made money? Why didnt they design new stuff and stop the japanese from stealing the show?

Instead they pressed on with marina/ital 1100 princes/a,bassador etc etc.

That the unions fault too?

Poor management, poor government.

As said before German unions much stronger than ours, still produce better cars too. Why? better management?
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Altea Ego
There are 4 edit buttons.

PG has a "the last word so there " button
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Would MINI been a success under Rover? - Aprilia
BMC/Rover lost money period, thanks to the unions - who, amonst
other things, drove the best managers out of the industry or
even out of the country.


You make some pretty wacky statements - have you ever worked in the car industry, or even visited a car plant? I don't think any managers ever left the old BL - the dud's were just kicked out early with fat 'redundancy' packages and a company car or two.
 

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