Just put my girlfriend's Clio DCi through its first MOT, which it passed. However an advisory notice was issued, because the front discs were pitted and worn (the garage also did a service, so they had the front wheels off for a better look). The car's covered 34k, and the discs and pads were fitted at 24k, about 10 months ago, for which we have the receipt (even though she didn't own the car then).
Anyway - the supplying dealer, who fitted the discs and pads, says the parts are only warranteed for 10,000 miles, and the discs have been on for 300 miles longer than that(!!) They've agreed to "have a look" at the brakes, but won't necessarily do anything else.
Should I put my foot down and argue that 10k is unacceptable for a set of front discs?! I previously thought that the original pads/discs hadn't lasted very well at 24k!! Any advice welcome.
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Lack of use is possible - I used to have to replace my renault 5 discs every 18 months and only doing around 3 to 5k miles in that time in it. I used to anticipate traffic and hardly used the brakes at all. Rust scale killed them off. Driving with left foot rested on the brake after it was parked in the wet extended the life no end.
You could use one of the fast fit outfits - one of them offers a free lifetime replacement for brake parts. (can't remember which one though).
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But the car's covered 10k in the last 10 months! It gets used daily, on a 40-mile return journey.
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measure the discs yourself and check limit for renewal ,the easiest way to extract cash is on things like brakes where people are scared not to comply because of the safety aspect ,10k is rather quick to have to change them again
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on reading your first post again were they actually changed at 24k or do you just assume they were ?the receipt proves nothing other than the fact that it SHOULD have been done
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As far as I know they were changed at 24k. The supplying dealer is very well-known in the local area (is franchised to Fiat and Hyundai amongst others), and I doubt they would've simply "forgotten" to do the work, and charged money for it. The same receipt includes a tyre, which was definitely fitted.
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Will remove one wheel and have a look for myself tomorrow.
The bloke who did the MOT is usually very fair - he's done all our MOTs for the last 3 years, and never failed anything unduly (in fact I'd say he's sometimes a bit lenient if anything). He assumed they were the originals, and was quite shocked when I said they'd been replaced only 10k ago. Incidentally the rear shoes are dropping to bits (lining coming off), so I invisage big bills ahead!
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They write it to cover themselves, I wager the discs will easily do another 10k.
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Somewhere on the disc will be engraved the minimum recommended thickness.
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If possible, take the car to another main dealer for a second opinion. I wouldn't expect there to be any charge for this.
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L\'escargot.
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Incidentally the rear shoes are dropping to bits (lining coming off), ..........
With all due respect, I think you need to question your girlfriend's driving/braking habits. I've followed cars (clearly driven by someone not very confident) where the brake lights have come on at every little bend of the road.
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L\'escargot.
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Wife's Clio is on original discs, pads and shoes at 42k, the discs are a bit corroded though did not warrant an advisory at MOT time in August, the pads were then just over half worn and the shoes very little worn at all. The Haynes manual quotes min thicknesses / runouts for all items.
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my sister has the Vauxhall people carrier, and she was equally shocked that her rear disks lasted just 22k, her main journeys are the from Woking to Weybridge, generally outside the rush hours and the occasional motorway trip - I know it depends on road awareness and how late she leaves the braking but is 22k good/bad/ or average - your opinions thanks
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it really depends on driving style. Rear brake discs can suffer through lack of use. Most of the brakign happens on the front and so its possible that there's nto enough brakign done to clean the corrosion off. If the car isn't used very regularly this corrosion will soon cause pitting in the discs and reduce life. Daily hard rakign is likely to enhance rear brake disc life, though it'll reduce the life of the front discs.
Its really not milage dependant, driving round London for ten miles is far worse then several hundred miles on the motorway.
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I read often, only post occasionally
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In response to L'escargot...
Oh she's confident enough - in my opinion she doesn't use the brakes enough!! Like many women drivers' cars (allegedly), the car has 2 speeds - stop and flat-out. I'm rough with my brakes but they always last a LOT longer than 10k - i would consider 50k a reasonable life for a disc, and would expect over 30k from pads. The rear shoes on my old Sunny had been on for about 60k, and still weren't worn out. Apparently, according to the mechanic who serviced it before the MOT, Renaults with rear drums often have shoe-separation problems. The problem's only with OE shoes though, so it only occurs once in the car's life.
Grrrr - knew I should've made her buy Japanese! ;-)
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Could this be a case of a tester looking for work?
After 10K the discs will be worn, but should not be worn out. Let us know what you see when the wheel is off.
It is surprising that the car has already had new discs, possibly there is another underlying problem causing the wear?
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Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
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I've only driven the car once recently, but I noticed the brakes were juddery - something the MOT tester also picked up on. Dodgy ABS perhaps?!
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They don't look bad to me. Can you feel the ridges if you run a fingernail across the disc?
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Yes they're fairly ridgey(!), but the discs I replaced on my old Sunny had rusty craters all over them, and they still passed an MOT. I might satisfy my curiosity and look at the offside disc later.
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I've had much worse looking discs pass the mot. If they're over the min thickness and don't judder I'd leave them.
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Our 2003 espace failed on rear disks. About 1/2 the disk was corroded. I would suggest changing the pads it could be the problem, dont bother changing the disks..
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If the disc has grooves or ridges it will simply transfer these to the new pads and ruin them too.
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Nicoles clio is on its second set of front pads, orginal disks, original rear shoes. 47k miles.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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If the disc has grooves or ridges it will simply transfer these to the new pads and ruin them too.
Surely all discs suffer scoring in use? The pads acquire matching marks and braking efficiency hardly suffers. Severe corrosion pitting would be another matter of course, and it may be that very deep scoring would damage the pads and necessitate new discs or a skim. I seem to remember reading something to that effect.
The disc shown in the OP's photograph appears hardly worn at all, not badly scored and virtually as thick as a brand new disc.
Brake judder can result from uneven patches of surface rust after a car has been left parked in damp conditions. In this case it should disappear after some use.
However if the brake judder reported is the result of warped or 'wavy' discs there is no choice but to renew them.
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Has anyone mentioned having them idependantly checked ?
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Could someone explain how scoring on a disk will impair braking performance? Wouldn't it just mean that there is a greater surface area and therefore improved braking?
I'm talking about the normall scoring that you get, not heavy gouges from when the pads go down to metal and assuming that the pads have bedded in so the contours match.
Many performance disks have either holes drilled in them or grooves machined into them to improve braking performance.
I've only ever replaced disks for the following reasons:
1 - worn lower than the min spec'd thickness
2 - warped
3 - extreme case - a cracked disk
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Our 2003 espace failed on rear disks. About 1/2 the disk was corroded. I would suggest changing the pads it could be the problem, dont bother changing the disks..
I would also add that it is a good idea to find a quiet spot somewhere and
slam the anchors on. If it stops under full control - with no "snakin' under brakin' " -
then don't worry. For perspective I remember cars without servo brakes where
it felt almost impossible to brake hard enough to induce a skid. You could practically
stand up on the middle peddle...
Does Renault spec an inspection at 10k miles for new vehicle...?
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25k for pads and 50k for pads/discs perhaps? Or 20k and 40k? I can recall when discs made it to 100k, ah, the delights of asbestos pads. Hard use of brakes is preferential to minimal use, seized rear calipers are to be avoided.
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The offside disc is in marginally worse condition, plus it looks slightly warped as the hub is rotated. Doesn't look like the inner pad has been making full (if any) contact with the disc, so maybe there's a seized caliper to fix as well! Arghhhh!
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My daughter's Clio DCi (53 reg) has now done 49k on original discs - mind you, her daily commute is M11 from N London to Cambridge and back but she is an "enthusiastic" driver!, and I suspect there might be quite a lot of stop start motoring on the M11 at times.
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Phil
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That's interesting PhilW. Which version of the DCi engine is it - the 65bhp or the 80-odd bhp?
I've looked around for parts, and it seems that there were 2 different front brakes fitted to DCi Clios (possibly depending on power output?) - my girlfriend's has the smaller Lucas discs, as opposed to the larger Bendix ones, as it's only a 65bhp base-model.
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You are right about the choice of brakes ( on most french cars) but its not directly related to power of the car its more of what parts were at what factory at what installation time. But you do need to know what type you have fitted when you are replacing them.
Note it is the type you need to know, not the actual make fitted ! That is important after they have been changed from oe ones obviously.
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65 I think - she says it lacks the power she would like! It is the higher spec model with climate control etc though(Dynamic??). Don't know which discs it has.
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Phil
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