Why buy diesel cars? - GregSwain
The majority of people seem to now be diesel-heads - a salesman at a local main dealership told me that 75% of all new cars he sells are diesel. BUT....why?

OK, you get a few more miles to the gallon. But then diesel's more expensive (up to 7p a litre at some places), and common-rail diesels are far more complicated than an average petrol engine, and have a few fundamental problems - high technology at a low price etc etc.

Take a Ford Mondeo as an example. 1.8 Graphite petrol does 0-60 in 10.6 secs, and returns 37mpg. The 2.0TDCi (115ps, same model spec) does 0-60 one tenth of a second faster (hardly worth mentioning), and returns 47mpg (figures taken from Parkers website).

I've sat down and worked out (yes it's sad I know...) that to repay the £984 difference in list price, bearing in mind diesel being around 4p/litre more expensive (as is the case in my neck of the woods), you'd have to cover nearly 50,000 miles before the diesel engine started paying for itself. Add in the higher servicing costs of a diesel, and that figure may well rise to 60-70k.

So, why on earth would Mr Average, who drives 10-12k a year, wish to spend his hard-earnt cash on a diesel, when he won't see any money back for over 4 years, by which point he will have most likely sold the car?!
Why buy diesel cars? - PhilW
Perhaps he likes the characteristics of a diesel engine?
Perhaps that despite "common-rail diesels are far more complicated than an average petrol engine, and have a few fundamental problems - high technology at a low price etc etc." he has owned diesels in the past, done more than 500k in them and never had an engine touched (bar the odd glowplug) and currently has a 90k common rail which, touch wood, runs superbly?
Perhaps because he can find no evidence of "the higher servicing costs of a diesel"?
Perhaps he finds them better for towing?
Perhaps he does half his annual mileage on holiday on the continent where diesel is quite a bit cheaper than petrol?
These are all personal opinions of course, and you could well ask "why on earth would Mr Average, who drives 10-12k a year, wish to spend his hard-earnt cash on a ?" , well almost anything other than the most basic spec car - why metallic paint?, why alloys? Why Heinz beans not Tesco economy? Taste? Personal choice?
Oh and "won't see any money back for over 4 years, by which point he will have most likely sold the car?!" Current car is 6yrs old, previous was 13 when sold and one before that 11 -- and all were bought second hand! - less depreciation to be factored in??
But if you prefer petrol and it works for you - please carry on and enjoy your driving!
--
Phil
Why buy diesel cars? - GregSwain
Forgot to mention that the Mondeo diesel I used as an example is 2 insurance groups higher than the petrol, however it's £40 a year cheaper to tax.

I have no preference either way personally, I just thought I would sit down with some objective figures and work out whether it'd benefit me to change to diesel. My girlfriend's car is diesel, as is the van I sometimes drive at work. I can't say the "characteristics" bother me either way.

I too generally like to keep my cars until they start falling to bits. As yet we don't know the actual longevity of common-rail engines (time as opposed to mileage), because the first one was put in a car only 9 or 10 years ago.
Why buy diesel cars? - Gazza
Buying new, there is the factor of significantly lower BIK for company car users. For private users, most larger medium and large cars do not present a large difference in price preimum for diesels (maybe 0% - 5% variance) which can be recovered second-hand.

One reason (the only reason) why I bought my second-hand Mondeo Ghia X TDCI 130 6-Speed 6 months ago was that there were no choice of petrol ones available between last November to March from auctions in a good condition and at low price!

It is almost impossible to find a good 2.5 year-old Mondeo Ghia X 2.0 5-speed GBP5,500 but I got a diesel one for GBP 5,500.
Why buy diesel cars? - barchettaman
......The majority of people seem to now be diesel-heads .....

So it will be easier to sell on/trade in, probably at a better price?
Why buy diesel cars? - duncansand
I think it varies quite a bit, but my experience changing over to diesel has convinced me that it's the best option for me (and I only do around 12k miles/year).

Comparing the list price of new cars doesn't tell the whole story, as diesels tend to retain their value better. I tend to keep my car 4-5 years, and using the what-car website I worked out the cost of ownership of petrol v diesel over that period, rather than just the purchase price. I did the maths and worked out that the diesel was the better financial deal because of the higher retained value - in effect, the mileage was a bonus rather than the defining factor. Maybe not so important if you keep your car longer, but for me it made a big difference.

The other significant factor is the nature of a diesel to drive. I just changed from a 2.5 petrol to 2.2 diesel X-Type. I much, much prefer the diesel as a car. The diesel is dramatically quieter to be driven in - change down in the petrol on a motorway and you knew about it aurally, in the diesel you'd never know anything was happening. For me, having a car I could drive fast whilst not making my passengers nervous was important.

For 0-60 time, the two cars was virtually identical, but the diesel gives an enormous mid-range punch that makes it much more fun. I not sure about smaller engined diesels, but the larger ones car really be incredibly fun to drive. I've always based my shortlist partly on 0-60 time, but I think next time I'll be looking at the torque figures as well.

I think the numbers people look at in the car brochures - list price and 0--60 don't effectively explain the benefits of the diesel option.
Why buy diesel cars? - GregSwain
Good responses!

If I were buying new, and planning to keep for a number of years, I'd buy a diesel, but as an impoverished 20-something, there's a real temptation to take advantage of all the cheap petrols around. Keep it till it dies, and then depreciation doesn't matter!
Why buy diesel cars? - stunorthants
As a new car purchase, diesels may well not make sense from a money point of view - but ask yourself how many people buy diesels secondhand where the price of a diesel aint much more than petrol. The gap certainly narrows.

I currently own two petrols, a van and a car, but if I could have had the van in diesel, I would have in a heartbeat. If I could have found a £200 diesel car that wasnt falling apart, i would have, but i couldnt.

One major reason i like old diesels is because the inevitable fuel leaks you get from perished pipes now and again do not result in underbonnet fires generally. My old Astra van split a fuel pipe and for two weeks I drove round with a trickle of diesel down the front of the block. Had that been petrol, i couldnt have driven it but it was diesel and diesel is that much harder to ignite so wasnt much to worry about.

I also prefer the way diesels drive, even non-turbos as they have the higher torque usually and dont require the gear-changing that my petrol cars do. A diesel with a low-pressure turbo has a lovely linear power delivery in particular.

I have a soft spot for the old-style diesels ( if it aint rattling, it aint running ) because they are honest and generally very durable cars that usually outlast their petrol equivilent.

Finally servicing costs.... aside from changing the oil every 4500 miles I think it was on my Astra diesel, which costs all of £30 a year more, it never cost me any more than a petrol.
Why buy diesel cars? - Martin Devon
One major reason i like old diesels is because the inevitable
fuel leaks you get from perished pipes now and again do
not result in underbonnet fires generally. My old Astra van split
a fuel pipe and for two weeks I drove round with
a trickle of diesel down the front of the block.


So you're the bloke who's killed all them motorcyclists eh??

B.O. MD.
Why buy diesel cars? - scc
I also have a 2.2 D X -type and the deciding factor for me was range. The diesel and petrol versions both have the same size tank and I would be unable with the petrol version to get from Cornwall to Lancashire without being forced to fill up on the motorway, and I do object to paying their prices.

As per the previous poster I find it's also fun to drive with lots of mid range grunt.
Why buy diesel cars? - MichaelR
Although all the comments about power delivery style etc etc are true, there is one main reason why the man in the street buys diesel:

He perceives it will be cheaper and does not bother to do his figures before he buys the car. Thats it.

Those of us on here who buy diesel do so for the right reasons without buying based on inaccurate perceptions - becuase by the very nature of the fact we considered posting on a motoring forum worthwhile, we are more clued than the average man in the street.

Average Man in the Street is very daft, he will usually beleive anything the salesman tells him, and if it DOES MORE MPG it MUST absolutely be cheaper.

Some of the reactions I get when I tell people I'm looking at 2.8 and 3.0 litre petrol cars to do 10-15k a year in are comical. OMG THINK OF THE PETROL COSTS! Works out to be less than 500 quid a year more than running a Focus 1.6 in fuel costs..

People simply do not bother to research and think carefully.

But dont knock it, it is this people who are responsible for the awful residuals which bring big petrol engined cars into our reach.
Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
I don't really care how many miles to the gallon my car gets. If I did, I wouldn't be looking at 3.0l plus cars for my next one. I don't really care how much they cost to insure or even run (within reason). Nor do I care what anyone else thinks.

I don't want a diesel (and won't until I've got a wife and kids and need a people carrier or something) because:

a) They don't sound nice

b) That's it. I just don't like how diesels sound.

That's just me. Yes I know diesels have torque, are probably cheaper, more economical - they could do 150 miles to the gallon for all I care but I wouldn't have one...yet. I fully appreciate why people buy them and I know many people love the torque but changing down gear for power doesn't bother me because when you have 6 cylinders or more, the sound is more than enough to offset this. Like I say though, in however many years time when I need an economical load

Ordinarily I wouldn't have to say this but recently people have been getting upset - if you own a diesel, don't for one minute think I'm having a pop at you. And if you're hurt by my comments, just remember that I drive a brown Focus saloon and that my opinion could possibly be that important.
Why buy diesel cars? - GregSwain
Even looking at people movers, something big like a Hyundai Trajet 7-seater....

There's a 2.0 litre petrol which is quiet and smooth, and a slower 2.0 litre CRDi, which sounds like people shaking buckets of nails. The petrol has 28bhp extra, but only does 7 fewer miles to the gallon - the price of a 2nd hand petrol version is about a grand less than a diesel of the same year on Autotrader. Putting those figures into my boring spreadsheet, and you'd still have to do 53,000 miles before it was worth buying the diesel.

I'm sure the diesel is excellent if you're a taxi driver covering 75k a year. But the last few comments are right - the man in the street is daft. If the petrol and the diesel cost the same to buy, I'd buy the diesel. However with the extra grand in my pocket, I'd buy the petrol.

I'm not dissing diesels, because I like them. I'm just not easily parted from my money.
Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
I think this is the first time I've ever said this Greg - I agree with you.
Why buy diesel cars? - jeta1
diesel hyundai trajet is one of the worst examples of a diesel engine. I turned to diesel cars about ten years ago now . I would not entertain a petrol engined car again . dont take my word for it though see whats selling we cant all be wrong.
Why buy diesel cars? - GregSwain
diesel hyundai trajet is one of the worst examples of a diesel engine.

I did the same calculation for the Ford Mondeo and the Hyundai Trajet, and found that you'd need to cover 50k in either before the diesel would pay for itself.
we cant all be wrong.

Well, lots of people are being tempted by quieter diesels which return excellent MPG. They don't consider that the CR and PD injection systems are extremely expensive to fix, and are far more likely to go wrong than a petrol injection system. It's not a matter of being right or wrong, it's a matter of perceived economy. If you think of "running costs" as fuel only, then your diesel will be cheaper from 50,000 miles onwards. If you consider the wider picture, it may take a lot more miles than that. If you cover 70k a year, buy a diesel because you'd be stupid to buy a petrol. I'm just saying that the average 10-12k driver has very little to gain from buying a diesel, and rarely takes all factors into account.
Why buy diesel cars? - daveyjp
OK take all the factors in to account and consider two identical cars, apart from the fuel in the tank (as I did when I chose my car).

I decided on an A3 Sportback. They come in 1.6, 2.0, 2.0T, 3.2 and two diesels 1.9TDi and 2.0TDi.

The 1.6 is underpowered and the 3.2 is too expensive to buy, insure and fuel, the 1.9TDi isn't too refined and no auto option.

So it's a 2.0 petrol v 2.0 diesel. The 2.0T wasn't available when I bought mine, but it's almost £1,000 more than the 2.0TDi.

The 2.0 petrol does 34 mpg 9.2 0-60 costs £21,745 and will be worth £10,272 after three years
The 2.0 diesel does 47 mpg 8.9 0-60 costs £22,005 and will be worth £11,261 after three years.

The diesel road tax is less and it requires servicing less often.

The original thread was based purely on a finance argument of petrol v diesel so based on the above info which would you buy?
Why buy diesel cars? - GregSwain
As i've said in previous posts - if the initial purchase price was the same or less for a diesel, I'd buy it. With the example you quote, the diesel is the most logical choice.
Why buy diesel cars? - Hamsafar
I prefer diesels because the urban mpg is better, I spend a lot of time on a detrunked/ruined ring road edging to work.

I also prefer the sound of a good quality diesel compared to many modern petrol engines, the latter sounding more and more like electric motors or washing machines on a spin cycle.

I prefer the way a decent turbodiesel drives compared to a modern petrol equivalent.

I also like to see proper smoke coming out of the exhaust rather than this modern invisible gas that you can't even commit suicide with.
Why buy diesel cars? - Tomo
I just checked the cars in the street outside and at the moment there are nine petrol and two diesel, so perhaps those on this site are not a representative sample of motorists.

For myself, I enjoy petrol cars. On a diesel (yes, I've had one, with turbo) you have to use the gearbox to keep the revs down; with petrol one can enjoy using the box to keep the revs up!
Why buy diesel cars? - mss1tw
I also prefer the sound of a good quality diesel compared
to many modern petrol engines, the latter sounding more and more
like electric motors or washing machines on a spin cycle.


:-o I'm not alone...I tried to find a support group...
Why buy diesel cars? - nick
I don't want a diesel (and won't until I've got a
wife and kids and need a people carrier or something) because:
a) They don't sound nice
b) That's it. I just don't like how diesels sound.

Me too Adam, and I don't like the driving characteristics. I love to hear a 4 cam petrol revving hard. I don't do many miles so the petrol consupmtion issue is irrelevant for me. Plus I look on driving as a hobby as well as a means of getting from A to B so I'm happy to pay out a bit more for the pleasure of driving what I like.
Each to their own, but I think it'll be a long time before I even consider a diesel (maybe 2008, Subaru's boxer diesel is due then....but then again, there's still that noise.)
Why buy diesel cars? - L'escargot
I think the numbers people look at in the car brochures
- list price and 0--60 don't effectively explain the benefits of
the diesel option.


............. or the disadvantages!
--
L\'escargot.
Why buy diesel cars? - Vin {P}
"...done more than 500k in them and..."


Well, the question the OP asked was why would the average 10K-12K motorist buy one?

In your example, he must have owned the car for 40-50 years!

V
Why buy diesel cars? - mss1tw
So, why on earth would Mr Average, who drives 10-12k a
year, wish to spend his hard-earnt cash on a diesel


Because:

I don't have to thrash the nuts off of it to get anywhere.
55mpg at a 4-up cruise, yet still very powerful.
More MPg than the equivalent petrol engine I could afford to insure.

For the best mix of power and affordability for me, it's great. I deliberately went non common rail and non PD. Should be bomb proof.
Why buy diesel cars? - machika
Generally, modern diesels are lovely relaxed engines at motorway speeds. As far as the noise is concerned, well it is pretty imperceptible at 80 mph and I prefer that to the busy buzz that some petrol engines produce.
Why buy diesel cars? - daveyjp
Why does petrol v diesel always come down to economy? I've never seen a thread asking why anyone needs a car more than 1600 cc!

I drive a diesel because I prefer it and I can. When I bought my 2.0TDi the equivalent pterol (in terms of performance in day to day use i.e. 30-50, 50-70 acceleration) was a 3.2 V6 costing £5,000 more and doing at least 50% less per gallon. A 2.0T is now available for similar money, but even this is heavy on fuel, especially in urban use which is where I drive most of the time. I get 40 mpg round town, a 2.0T petrol will do 30 on a good day.
Why buy diesel cars? - Westpig
London to Scotland in my car (3.0 petrol Jag S type) = 26-27 mpg, two fill ups definitely and not much left at the other end, so in reality another top up to be safe (middle of nowhere roughly in the region of Fort William) so you're constantly wondering whether a longer day trip during the holiday will need another garage visit and they are few and far between.. it becomes irritating.

same journey in wife's car, (2.0 diesel Jag X type) = 38-89 minimum mpg at same speeds (the overtakes are a bit slower on the magnificent 'A' roads) means one fill up and don't need to bother with the last minute one at the other end & will run around all week before you need to think about it.

I very much prefer the smoothness of the petrol V6, the grunt, the noise etc........ and miss the acceleration 50-70 and similar, but in the end accept the 2nd best because of the practicality listed above and the much smaller hole in my wallet at that time.

I appreciate the economics discussed above i.e. the premium cost of the diesel car in the first place... but that was over a year ago and budgeted for then... the holiday is now...... and i don't want a £450 petrol bill, when i can have a £250 one.

I accept that when i was Adam's age i would consider myself a 'wuss' if i hadn't bought and used the 4.2V8 for the holidays...and would be constantly trying to work out a plan to afford the supercharged one... maybe the age has mellowed things.
Why buy diesel cars? - Westpig
38-39........ not 89?
Why buy diesel cars? - type's'
I am not a particular fan of diesels but have driven a new 320d up and down the motorway a couple of times and it was a fantastic engine for motorway cruising and overtaking.

That said alot of petrol engines are getting more torqueirer (if you know what I mean) although not in the same league as some diesels.
Why buy diesel cars? - MichaelR
I think I've dematured as I got a bit older. My first car a few years ago was a Xantia 1.9TD, of which I extolled the virtues of excellent economy, power delivery and how the noise didnt matter as it was quiet on the Motorway.

Now I wish to buy a 3 litre petrol BMW and fit a custom exhuast and induction so I can drive around going BRAOOOOAMMM after deciding that after parting with the Mondeo, the thing I'll mis most after the heated windscreen is the noise the exhuast makes.

Uh oh. I'll end up with a Scoob next.... please help!
Why buy diesel cars? - Sofa Spud
Petrol cars need a new exhaust every 3 years or so while on diesels seem they seem to last 7 years or more, due to different exhaust gas characteristics including less water vepour. If an exhaust system costs £200, then during a 15 year lifespan a petrol car will need 4 new exhausts, a diesel just 1. That is a saving of £600.
Why buy diesel cars? - jase1
Petrol cars need a new exhaust every 3 years or so
while on diesels seem they seem to last 7 years or
more, due to different exhaust gas characteristics including less water vepour.
If an exhaust system costs £200, then during a 15
year lifespan a petrol car will need 4 new exhausts, a
diesel just 1. That is a saving of £600.


Our Nissan petrol car went 8 years before needing a new exhaust. However since then it's gone through them like no-one's business. The quality of Kwik-Fit exhausts leaves a lot to be desired.

Likewise, the Hyundai is 5 years old and counting. Exhaust just fine.

So it seems it depends on the quality of the car as to how long the exhausts last.

On the flip-side, diesels eat tyres for breakfast. The original tyres on the Hyundai were good for 40k miles. So there's a big saving there.
Why buy diesel cars? - MichaelR
My now 7 year old Mondeo would still be on its original exhuast were it not for the fact I fancied a Stainless system...
Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
>>Petrol cars need a new exhaust every 3 years or so while on diesels seem they seem to last 7 years or more, due to different exhaust gas characteristics including less water vepour. If an exhaust system costs £200, then during a 15 year lifespan a petrol car will need 4 new exhausts, a diesel just 1. That is a saving of £600.<<

No they don't - mine needed just the backbox replacing last year. Last year it was 6 years old.
Why buy diesel cars? - Vin {P}
"Petrol cars need a new exhaust every 3 years or so "

Eh? A selection of my recent petrol cars

Mazda 626 - 6 years old, original exhaust
Mazda Xedos 9 - 8 years old, original exhaust
Omega - 7 years old, original exhaust

V
Why buy diesel cars? - jeta1
Im afraid you bought the wrong diesel jag. The car is simply too heavy for that car
Why buy diesel cars? - Big John
I have both a "Y" Petrol Skoda Octavia 1.4 16V and a "53" Skoda Superb PD 100 (both for cheap commute & european holidays).

Fuel economy:-

On exactly the same 32X2 mile commute (summer) the Octavia now (improved from new) does about 47mpg and the Superb(purchased used) about 52mpg. I know one is a slightly bigger car, but there is not much in it when you take in to account the price of fuel. However the difference increases in the winter, the Superb hardly changes but the Octavia drops to about 42mpg, surprising as the Petrol warms up quicker.


Driving:-

I hate my commute and like an easy journey, there are many roundabouts and various speed limits (30,40,50,60&70 for 1 mile) . Most of the journey is between 0 and 45mph.

The Diesel Superb is comfortable and has an excellent ride (some poor roads). The engine has loads of torque from as low as 1250rpm but nothing below that, (on a 2.0 VAG diesel I tried it was only from 2300 rpm!!!). The problem is that 1250rpm in fifth gear equates to about 40mph so I?m always changing gear - economy suffers if you just stay in fourth or third.

The Petrol Octavia is also comfortable (not as good as Superb) and it also has an excellent ride (yet again not quite as good as Superb) BUT I can drive it in fifth gear comfortably from less than 20mph through to over a surprisingly quiet 100mph (not in UK!) I.E. on my commute I leave it in fifth for most of the journey. The Petrol has less torque that the Diesel but is flexible and has a sort of ?zap? to it (yes even in a 1.4).

Overall I?m torn between the two, but I usually drive the Superb as the Octavia has parking sensors and my wife prefers it.

The difference between Petrol and Diesel? There is a small saving on fuel offset by the cost of fixing expensive PD or common rail Diesels, For driving I still prefer Petrol.

P.S I should buy an auto, the problem is most of them don?t lock up the torque converter until after 45 mph i.e. fuel economy would be dreadful. (I've tried a couple)

Why buy diesel cars? - Avant
Try an Octavia 2.0 TDI with the DSG gearbox - these have less of a penalty in terms of economy than conventional automatics.
Why buy diesel cars? - peterb
"I don't want a diesel because:

a) They don't sound nice

b) That's it. I just don't like how diesels sound. "

So glad it's not just me then....
Why buy diesel cars? - rtj70
What about the new Audi 5 litre V12 twin-turbo V12 diesel. It's got about 500bhp and I think about 740lb/ft torque. It'll be in the Q7.

Not bad for a diesel :-)
Why buy diesel cars? - cheddar
Slightly hypothetical because my Mondeo was my comany car which I bought from the company as part of a redundancy package whenn it was 18 months old, neverthless I have done 110,000 in my TDCi 130 over which time it has used around £4000 - £4500 less fuel cost terms over a 2.0 petrol which more than out ways the approx £1000 higher price at the time of purchase, mid 2002. However the higher purchase price is already almost covered by a better resale value. Furthermore it is IMO better to drive.
Why buy diesel cars? - paulb {P}
In answer to the original question, I went from 53-reg Honda Civic 1.6 to 55-reg Mondeo TDCi 130 because the Mondeo thrashes the Civic in terms of perfomance, refinement and fuel consumption, which is 10 mpg better and means that instead of a £40-odd fill up with Optimax (as it then was) every week, it's a £50 fill-up with Diesel Extra every fortnight. And it was about £500 cheaper to buy than the Civic, too.

(There are also the advantages of better comfort, ride, handling, load space and spec, which are of course shared with petrol Mondeos.)
Why buy diesel cars? - machika
The Petrol Octavia is also comfortable (not as good as Superb)
and it also has an excellent ride (yet again not quite
as good as Superb) BUT I can drive it in
fifth gear comfortably from less than 20mph through to over a
surprisingly quiet 100mph (not in UK!) I.E. on my commute I
leave it in fifth for most of the journey. The
Petrol has less torque that the Diesel but is flexible and
has a sort of ?zap? to it (yes even in a
1.4).


I am amazed to hear that a 1.4 petrol engine will pull comfortably from less than 20 mph, in fifth gear. I have driven a few 2 litre petrol engined cars that were fine at around 30 mph and even my two 1.3 309s would just about tolerate 30 mph in fifth, but below 20 mph in fifth gear is just incredibly flexible for a 1.4 engine, in a medium sized car (much bigger than a 309).
Why buy diesel cars? - Vin {P}
"Why buy diesel cars?"

The simple truth is that people equate fuel as their sole running cost for a car. The sum is much more complex, and, depending on when in its lifecycle you are buying a vehicle, a diesel may or may not be cheaper than a petrol. People don't do those sums, so they buy what they want. All power to them.

V
Why buy diesel cars? - googolplex
The simple truth is that people equate fuel as their sole
running cost for a car.


Far too simplistic for all the reasons stated above and more besides. If people really took economics into consideration, and to its logical conclusion, it would be far cheaper (though much less convenient) to avoid cars altogether.

I don't believe the majority of people think about economics when choosing a diesel. I didn't. I just prefer the drive - far more relaxed and loads of oomph when I put my foot down. It is also nice not having to fill up so often.
Splodgeface
Why buy diesel cars? - Big John
I've always found the 1.4 16V very flexible, it always pulls cleanly from 1000 rpm (20 mph) with peak torque at just over 3000 rpm. The problem with it is that not much more happens after 4500 rpm, infact the red line is a lowly 5200 rpm . I.E. its all "torque" with no action, but for my real life commute I don?t want to be playing tunes with the gearbox. Its best on country lanes when you have to slow down to below 30mph on tight bends.

P.S. I drove a new Panda 1.2 Eleganza last week and found that to be surprisingly flexible as well, my old Punto 1.2 16V HLX wasn't. Considering I'm 6ft 4" I thought the little Panda was a superb little car, very well thought out. Compared to our old Punto I thought the build quality also seemed much better e.g.(1 example of many) Instead of a coolant filler tank attached to the radiator base that caused major air lock problems when the coolant was changed the Panda has a proper coolant header tank at high level.(Think Punto head gasket problems)
Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
About the perceived economy of diesels in some circumstances, my mate is a prime example of it.

He does less than 7,000 miles a year because he lives very close to town and therefore all his mates (bar me) and so, doesn't drive to work or the shops or anything.

So we're sitting in his Clio 172 (a very nice car) and the petrol light comes on. Wouldn't bother me as long as I was getting enjoyment out of the car. But it did him as somehow he thought that putting 20 quid of juice in once in a blue moon (as opposed to my every other day) was excessive.

"Diesel!" he says.

"What about it?" I ask him

"I'll get a diesel! I'll never need to put fuel in a diesel"

"But you don't put fue........"

"I have spoken."


So he goes out and buys a 53 plate Seat Ibiza Sport TDi 130. Pays far more than he got for his Clio which in every way was a better car and then we go out in it.

There was nothing there. You floor it and it thrums and gets you there. There was no fun redlining it as there was the Clio. And the fact he hammered it everywhere (really hammered it) meant he didn't get a squillion miles to the gallon. And given the fact he'd paid a fair bit for it, it dawned on him that he didn't really like it given the only "plus point" was that he was getting 40mpg when hammering it. (Which is impressive to be fair).

So he binned it and bought an Audi TT but that's another story for another time.
Why buy diesel cars? - ziggy
I am amazed to hear that a 1.4 petrol engine will
pull comfortably from less than 20 mph, in fifth gear.
I have driven a few 2 litre petrol engined cars that


They are just more linear with lower gearing. So ironically they can often feel more
flexible than a turbo diesel. I bet there are even some die-hards who still prefer
non-aspirated diesel flexibility....

I am constantly switching between hire cars (small petrol units) and a strong TD. And I'm always surprised how flexible the petrol cars are at the bottom end. Of course it's partly
perception as bottom end feels weaker when the mid-range is so strong.

OTOH the small petrol cars can be nudging 5000rpm when cruising on the auto-bahn.
Why buy diesel cars? - mss1tw
I can drive it in fifth gear comfortably from less than 20mph


Bye bye big end...
Why buy diesel cars? - local yokel
I need a medium estate for those country-type trips to the tip, the horse feed place, the vet etc. Quite a few short trips, so I'd like the exhaust to last and the fuel economy not to go through the floor.

Result - £700 of 405 TD estate. 44 mpg in normal use - not long runs, but short ones, medium ones and a few long runs. The equiv. petrol mighjtmake 33 mpg, but the short trips would kill an exhaust every 2/3 years, from experience.

Without running an AX diesel I'm not sure i could get much cheaper motoring. And it's a good looking enough vehicle.
Why buy diesel cars? - Martin1981
Filled up the Pug 306 TD a week last wednesday- £50 for a full tank at 92.9 p/litre and ran for 560 miles before the fuel warning light came on. This included three return trips from Exeter to Plymouth at a steady 75mph to see the girlfirend, Exeter to Bristol for the office summer party, 10 miles getting lost around Bristol, Bristol to Bath to see my mate and then Bath back to Exeter, plus the 10 mile return journey from home to work x7. That I think works out at about 43-45 mpg as a rough guess.

Martin
Why buy diesel cars? - DavidHM
47.29454545... you get the picture.

Sounds about right - I get the same from mine or thereabouts.
Why buy diesel cars? - Micky
Diseil range and deesil torque-at-medium-revs is good. The extra couple of mpg is only of interest to bean counters ;-0

The 1.8 petrol Mk3 Mondeo is gutless and should be avoided, I've not driven a 115ps TDCi, the last 130 TDCi I drove was impressive in the mid-range but I could never get more than 40 mpg. TDCi repair costs can be huge.
Why buy diesel cars? - cheddar
The 1.8 petrol Mk3 Mondeo is gutless



Agreed though the 2.0 is fine.
the last 130 TDCi I drove was impressive in the mid-range but I could never get
more than 40 mpg. TDCi repair costs can be huge.


Mine has averaged just under 50mpg over 110,000 miles and the £4000 plus in fuel savings would go along way to any expensive repair costs. That being said I reckon a 100,000 mile diesel is likely to be in better mechanical condition that an equivelent petrol at the same mileage and while CR injector pumps are pricing they are cheaper than 2.0 16v petrol engines.
Why buy diesel cars? - Collos25
1.8 is gutless ? It will comfortatble break the speed limit if required ,I am using one at the moment and will deliver anything that is allowed by the driving laws of europe without a problem and when I put the computer into mpg it is doing 35.5 why on earth would you want anything larger.
Why buy diesel cars? - glowplug
Am I the only one who thinks - why buy petrol cars?

But then I'm biased or foolish, I run a Xantia (diesel) after all....

Steve.
---
Xantia HDi.

Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
Why buy diesel cars? - glowplug
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I'd have an electric car if I could find one for about the same as I paid for my Xantia. I only do about 100 miles a week on average so range isn't a major factor.

Horses for thingies eh?

Steve.
---
Xantia HDi.

Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
<<1.8 is gutless ? It will comfortatble break the speed limit if required ,I am using one at the moment and will deliver anything that is allowed by the driving laws of europe without a problem and when I put the computer into mpg it is doing 35.5 why on earth would you want anything larger.<<

Fun.
Why buy diesel cars? - Collos25
Roads are not for fun they are for transport if you want fun go to a race track,to many people have so called fun at other peoples expense very selfish .
Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
I don't know about you Andy but my idea of fun isn't running people over so quite why I'm being selfish is anyone's guess.
Why buy diesel cars? - DP
I bought an age and type of diesel car which commands virtually no price premium over its petrol equivalent. Its service intervals are only 2,500 miles shorter than the petrol equivalent and the services themselves cost no more.

My commute alone is 1500 miles per month at a current average of 47 mpg. I would expect a petrol equivalent to return approximately 35 mpg on the same journey which is a mix of motorway and stop/start rush hour Greater London stuff.

Locally, petrol is currently £4.05 a gallon and diesel is £4.23 a gallon.

Petrol: 1500 miles at 35 mpg at £4.05 a gallon = £173.57 per month
Diesel: 1500 miles at 47 mpg at £4.23 a gallon = £135.00 per month

No purchase price premium to speak of
Needs 1 extra service over a 50,000 mile period, but I calculate this adds 2 tenths of a penny per mile to the diesel running costs, assuming the service costs £100.

Petrol would be more enjoyable to drive, but as I'm either on a motorway or sitting in traffic, I don't reckon I'd have fun in anything doing this journey. Reliability, comfort and economy are the only considerations.

Cheers
DP
Why buy diesel cars? - tr7v8
What a stupid & incredibly anal message!
Of course driving can be fun, the ones that don't are the muppets that treat it as operating a microwave & use about as much brain power. The ones that enjoy driving in other words think it's fun are far more likely to think about what they're doing & do it well.
Some cars are far more interesting to drive than others hence more fun!
Why buy diesel cars? - Collos25
I think you are confusing the meaning of the word fun ,I think you mean enjoyment with which I would agree.
Why buy diesel cars? - barchettaman
Eh? Fun and enjoyment aren´t exactly antonymous.
Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
That's because they were the words of a man who was backpedalling furiously trying to save face.
Why buy diesel cars? - mss1tw
What a stupid & incredibly anal message!


Unnecessary and rude.
Of course driving can be fun,


Wot? Even the M25 grid locked at 8am on a wet Monday morning? Maybe with a bag of class A drugs and a lady of loose virtue in the passenger seat...
the ones that don't are the muppets that treat it as operating a microwave & use
about as much brain power. The ones that enjoy driving in
other words think it's fun are far more likely to think
about what they're doing & do it well.


Agreed. The sort of people who by defintion wouldn't be registered here.
Some cars are far more interesting to drive than others hence
more fun!


Nothing gets past you does it.
Why buy diesel cars? - tr7v8
>> What a stupid & incredibly anal message!
Unnecessary and rude.


It was meant to be, some of the anoraks on here are more than painful!
>> Of course driving can be fun,
Wot? Even the M25 grid locked at 8am on a wet
Monday morning? Maybe with a bag of class A drugs and
a lady of loose virtue in the passenger seat...

Wrong comment at wrong person, up to a few months ago used to commute around the M25 each day, 75 miles each way each day Yup Alfa 156 SW JTD fun & so is the Porsche 944 I run today, Doing it in the wifes Toyota Corolla, like paint drying!
>> the ones that don't are the muppets that treat it
as operating a microwave & use
>> about as much brain power. The ones that enjoy driving
in
>> other words think it's fun are far more likely to
think
>> about what they're doing & do it well.
Agreed. The sort of people who by defintion wouldn't be registered
here.


Given the amount that rave about automotive mogadon on here not so sure ;-)
>> Some cars are far more interesting to drive than others
hence
>> more fun!
Nothing gets past you does it.

Nope but it obviously does some!
Why buy diesel cars? - Micky
"> 1.8 is gutless ?<"

Gutless as in try to accelerate from 2500 rpm, it picks up eventually but it sometimes needs a downchange to get the thing moving. The weight of the Mk3 is part of the problem.
Why buy diesel cars? - Micky
">Mine has averaged just under 50mpg <"

Perhaps my next Mundano should be a TDCi, but how do I know it will be the nearly-50mpg version as opposed to the no-more-than-40mpg version.

And TDCi overboost as well!

4 cylinder Zetec petrol engines usually outlast the car provided the cambelt doesn't snap. Not certain if Duratec petrol engines are as reliable.
Why buy diesel cars? - L'escargot
So, why on earth would Mr Average, who drives 10-12k a
year, wish to spend his hard-earnt cash on a diesel, when
he won't see any money back for over 4 years, by
which point he will have most likely sold the car?!


Perhaps because he doesn't consider all aspects, and just looks at the fuel consumption to the exclusion of all else.
--
L\'escargot.
Why buy diesel cars? - v0n
The fact people have extra grand or two at point of purchase doesn't neccessarily mean they would be ready or happy to fork out £50 extra a month on fuel. Current market trend clearly shows that neither generic pence per mile figures nor initial difference in price of the car is of much importance to todays buyers...
--------------------
[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
Why buy diesel cars? - TheOilBurner
Exactly. It may not be rational in the sense that the diesel could (in some cases) cost more overall in total ownership costs, but people do tend to budget their fuel and car purchase payments as seperate, distinct costs. Therefore there is a kind of logic in ignoring other factors and just concentrating on the bottom line MPG.

This is rational in the sense that, as you may often need to make (sometimes unpredictable) long journeys (holidays, family crises, etc), the purchase price is irrelevent. All that matters is whether or not you have enough cash to keep filling it up.
Why buy diesel cars? - tr7v8
They will start to once the older CR diesels start to break & they need £1,000 diesel pumps, £200 lift pumps & £200 injectors! This on a £2,000 car will be very interesting!
Been there & got the T shirt & it isn't nice.
Why buy diesel cars? - GregSwain
Exactly - I saw a 1986 Pug205 diesel the other day, still sounded like new. Will a 20 year-old CR diesel sound like that, or will they all be dead by then?
Why buy diesel cars? - DP
They will start to once the older CR diesels start to
break & they need £1,000 diesel pumps, £200 lift pumps &
£200 injectors!


During their early days, it was said that catalysts and these new fangled EFI systems would send five year old cars to breakers when components failed. An ECU would set you back a grand, a catalyst not much less, and many of the fuel system components carried £200+ prices. Yet there are loads of 10+ year old injected cars worth a couple f hundred quid tops that are still going strong using secondhand and recon parts. The same will probably happen with common rail diesels.

Cheers
DP
Why buy diesel cars? - tr7v8
Disagree, and Aprilla agrees with me on this, the HP pumps are so complex that you aren't going to get cheap repairs. They are built to an accuracy that makes aircraft bits I used to work on look positively agricultural.
Looking at places like car mechanics mag a lot of these failures tend to follow makes so s/h bits are going to be hard to find.
Why buy diesel cars? - daveyjp
When the cambelt went on my Fiesta 1.8 non CR diesel I was informed that if the injector pump was damaged the bill would increase by about £700. This was at least 6 years ago, so diesel injector pumps have always been expensive to fix.
Why buy diesel cars? - TheOilBurner
Won't the replacement parts get cheaper to make as the technology becomes outdated? As has happened for the early EFI + cat cars as mentioned above?

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the earlier common rail systems are already cheaper to fix than they were when the technology was new.

If that is the case (no reason why it wouldn't be, that is the normal pattern of things), then the current super high pressure systems that are ruinously expensive, will one day (when the cars are 10+ years old) merely be a bit painful in the pocket, but affordable.

At any rate, in 10 years time I'm sure there will be even more complex and potentially unreliable technology for us to fuss over, and the CR fears will be a distant memory.

Why buy diesel cars? - DP
Fair point, and I don't disagree that the technology and manufacturing tolerances are very different to my petrol EFI example.

However, I would still expect greater longevity and fewer failures (particularly those inherent to certain makes) as the technology develops. I can't think of a single example of a technology whether in the automotive field or not where this has not been the case.

But yes, I take your point about the cost when they do fail.

Cheers
DP
Why buy diesel cars? - gbn
Interesting thread.

If you ever drive long distance, IMHO diesel is nicer.
Not just high mileage, but any long journeys.

If you drive 10k-12k per year, back and to work, buy a petrol.
Change to diesel and you gain:
-use a fuel that lubricates instead of removing oil off when cold
-have superior urban consumption
-can potter in 1st or 2nd at idle pulling the car up hill in a jam

If it's simply about cost, buy a second hand Lada.

Anyway, what about the overtaking 50-70 acceleration figures for diesel?
Torque wins...
Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
But I drive close to 20k a year and don't want a diesel. What about if you don't care about torque?!

Personal preference at the end of the day - I can fully understand people wanting a diesel but it isn't for me I'm afraid - regardless of whatever mileage I do.
Why buy diesel cars? - Westpig
Anyway, what about the overtaking 50-70 acceleration figures for diesel?
Torque wins...

i don't think it does.......... i'd not argue about the strict 50-70 figures, because i don't know.......

but what i do know is the whole overtake in my automatic 3.0 petrol V6 is far quicker (and safer) than the same one on the same road in my wife's manual 2.0 diesel turbo (even though the torque figure is quoted as being better than the petrol V8 model)........ because the diesel runs out of steam and i need a gear change and it always seems to be the point i'd rather it didn't...whereas i bury my divers boot into the carpet on the V6 and let it howl up to the more flexible and reasonable red line...



Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
>>but what i do know is the whole overtake in my automatic 3.0 petrol V6 is far quicker<<

And it sounds a million billion times nicer too!
Why buy diesel cars? - Westpig
you're not wrong....... real smile to the face stuff........... and proof that men never really grow up
Why buy diesel cars? - Aprilia
EFI + Cat cars ARE generally a lot more expensive to fix than the older motors with a set of points and carb. However this is countered by the much better levels of performance and economy that we get - so its a good trade-off.

I've no doubt that CR Diesels will get better, more reliable and cheaper to fix. But that's in the future and I'm talking about the here-and-now and that is what we're dealing with. If you have a broken down out-of-warranty Renault CR in the driveway that can neither be driven nor sold, nor economically repaired then its not much consolation to be told that things will be better in 10 years' time.
Why buy diesel cars? - duncansand
I wonder, are we beginning to see environmental conscience play a part? I know that the frequent trips to the petrol pump just didn't 'feel right' and were an intangible part of my decision to go diesel. I suppose I feel a little smug that I've managed to make a big dent in my CO2 output. My circumstance was probably extreme, in that I moved from a 2.5 V6 4WD Auto petrol to 2.2D manual 2wd - comparing those around town I rekon I've not far off halved consumption, which isn't typical I know, but that is my experience. Who knows if this is really important or not, but the 'feel good factor' helps the decision. Just don't let on to Jeremy Clarkson !
Why buy diesel cars? - Aprilia
Yes, that's a good point that needs to be considered.
Why buy diesel cars? - Westpig
i've got a theory....... choose any manufacturer that makes a model that has a decent turbo diesel and a decent V6 petrol.............

which one would you REALLY want to have...... if money and running costs weren't an option...

i thought so.........

so diesel is really second best........ it might be sensible etc and i confess to have done it with SWMBO's car and we use it for long journeys........ but i'd really rather be in the other one

Why buy diesel cars? - Adam {P}
Out of interest, what is the "other one"?
Why buy diesel cars? - Westpig
Jag S Type 3.0 SE auto
Why buy diesel cars? - cheddar
Jag S Type 3.0 SE auto


Rather have a 2.7 twin turbo S-Type, 205 bhp and 435nm against 240 bhp and 300 nm for the 3.0 petrol, the most refined diesel engine bar none.
Why buy diesel cars? - Westpig
fair enough......... and having given one a test drive i'm very impressed........ but........ the sound proofing is so good, you can't hear much, which leaves an uninspiring driving experience......... the performance to the 3.0 petrol is very similar, but still can't be 'raked' if you really wanted it.

when i can afford one i'm definitely having one............ i consider it to be that good.........but....

if i had enough money i'd have the V8 supercharged, no question about it....... so that leaves it 2nd best

Why buy diesel cars? - cheddar
if i had enough money i'd have the V8 supercharged, no
question about it....... so that leaves it 2nd best


But by then there will be the 3.6 V8 diesel!, actually westpig I was just making a point, the 3.0 S-Type is a great car.
Why buy diesel cars? - Murphy The Cat
i've got a theory....... choose any manufacturer that makes a model
that has a decent turbo diesel and a decent V6 petrol.............
which one would you REALLY want to have...... if money and
running costs weren't an option...
i thought so.........
so diesel is really second best........ it might be sensible etc
and i confess to have done it with SWMBO's car and
we use it for long journeys........ but i'd really rather be
in the other one


Funnily enough, I do indeed know of such a manufacturer.

Those awfully nice chaps at Chrysler make a splendid automobile called the 300C and in their wisdom they have made a 3.5 lt V6 Petrol version and a 3.0 lt V6 Diesel version. Being the sporting chaps that they are, they have also specced and priced them identically - & guess what the diesel is aoutselling the petrol by (according to my dealer) 10:1.

Which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone given the much better performace, massively improved fuel consumption and much, much lower servicing costs .

plus the CRD is just sooooooooooooooooooooo damned gooooooooooooooodddddddd to drive.

Does that answer your question ?
MTC
Why buy diesel cars? - Martin Sweeney
Westpig, you?re not really comparing like with like in your petrol/diesel comparison. I?m currently driving a 3.2 V6 petrol and it?s a great car to drive, but it?s diesel counterpart is at least the equal of it?s petrol counterpart in overtaking and IME and opinion, it's a more relaxed, flexible and hence enjoyabloe drive on A-roads and motorways. Depending on the engine, they can also sound marvellous when you sink your foot, streets ahead of most 4-cylinder petrol engines. I run a company car with a fuel card so no money or running cost issues, I?ve tried the alternatives and when I stuck in my order for my next car, I didn?t have to think twice about ordering the diesel over it?s petrol counterpart. Oh and as I waste my life standing around petrol stations twice as often, I really miss the astonishing driving range of diesel cars.

TBH I don?t see the point in being dogmatic about the issue as they clearly have different strengths and appeal and if you simply dismiss one of the other you?re cutting off your nose to spite your face. Regardless, the new BMW and VAG petrol engines look like they?re on the way to getting close to the economy, torque and flexibility of a diesel so unless diesel has something else up it?s sleeve these new petrol engines may be the way of the near future.
Why buy diesel cars? - GregSwain
Ok, so you're cutting down on CO2 - what about all the other nasties that diesel cars produce in huuuuuuuge quantities compared to petrols? That puff of smoke during a single gearchange probably contains more nitrogen oxides and particulates than a petrol produces in a week. Just a thought....
Why buy diesel cars? - barchettaman
One of my neighbours drives a Vectra V6 petrol with a big ´Diesel causes Cancer` sticker on the boot. Not sure why.
Why buy diesel cars? - duncansand
The whole environmental thing is, in reality, very complex. If people were really worried, they would find ways not to drive. However, the emotional "I'm using less fuel, it must be better for the environment" may be simplistic but I suspect has an impact. Also, there's no way the average man on the steet can be expected to pick between the conflicting arguments, so the only environment things on his/her mind are:
- less fuel = good
- less CO2 = good, as that is what the government is taxing us on, so it must be important

I agree with Cheddar on the S-Type 2.7D - I drove one when they were launched, thought it an incredible car - so refined, I don't think anyone would guess it was a diesel unless you told them.

Interesting example for our debate:
S-Type 2.7D S TARGET PRICE: £27,801, REAL COST: £23,986
S-Type 3.0 S TARGET PRICE: £26,986, REAL COST: £25,881

So, according to What Car, the 2.7D can be got for £815 more than the 3.0 petrol at purchase time. However, when you take depreciation and running costs into account for 36,000 miles over 3 years, the 2.7D is actually £1895 cheaper!
Why buy diesel cars? - Bromptonaut
Diesel certainly produces more PM10 particulates which feature in current standards and are measured by current equipment. IIRC it has been suggested that the PM produced by petrol, below the current "radar", may be even more harmful.

The bottom lime is that all cars pollute, albeit in different ways. We will only reduce damage to the environment by reducing car usage; if the predicted catastrophe is coming then changing fuels is just like re arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
Why buy diesel cars? - nick
And with China installing coal-fired power stations every year at a rate equivalent to the entire UK power station output, why worry?
Why buy diesel cars? - GregSwain
And with China installing coal-fired power stations every year at
a rate equivalent to the entire UK power station output, why
worry?


Because we are easily manipulated into believing that our nice convenient form of transport is a gas-guzzling monster that will end the world. Whatever car you have, it won't make a jot of difference to the environment. While pollution exists on a huge scale as in China, I doubt an extra 50g/km of CO2 will melt the polar icecaps any quicker....it will just bankrupt you every year when it comes to taxing the car!
Why buy diesel cars? - machika
We have been here before, but even the Economist magazine is changing its stance on the causes of global warming.
Why buy diesel cars? - mss1tw
We have been here before, but even the Economist magazine is
changing its stance on the causes of global warming.


In what way?
Why buy diesel cars? - Altea Ego
>OK, you get a few more miles to the gallon. But then diesel's more expensive (up to 7p a litre at some places),

Price differential round here is 4p litre

>and common-rail diesels are far more complicated than an average petrol engine,

who cares its on warranty

>Take a Ford Mondeo as an example. 1.8 Graphite petrol does 0-60 in 10.6 secs, and returns 37mpg.

In your dreams. Its a slug in the 60 to 75 overtake zone unless you drop down gears, and to get 37 you have to crawl around in a funeral procession,


>The 2.0TDCi (115ps, same model spec) does 0-60 one tenth of a second faster (hardly worth mentioning),

It is becuase it means it has much more useable grunt

>and returns 47mpg (figures taken from Parkers website).

all day every day no problem

I've sat down and worked out (yes it's sad I know...) that to repay the £984 difference in list price,

Nah nothing like that, who pays list price anyway?

>Add in the higher servicing costs of a diesel,

what higher servicing costs?

>So, why on earth would Mr Average, who drives 10-12k a year, wish to spend his hard-earnt cash on a diesel,

because he wants to, its very smug and satisfying to get 600 miles out of every tank of gas, and it makes us feel good.

Plus it has the added advantage of waking up the neigbours (If I am up early I see no reason why everyone else should be lazing in bed) and I can chuck facefulls of soot in the drivers eyes behind.

Damn I feel good about diesel.,

------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Why buy diesel cars? - Dulwich Estate
Range has become so important to me. I can fill up in SW France and drive 550 miles home without a need to look at the fuel gauge and yet still have enough in the tank for a week's working motoring. It's very satisfying and knowing how the french pull the plug on any activity on Sundays - very useful. Having said all that, I'v e only actually done it a couple of times when I couldn't fill up at the channel port. Why? I can't resist an 80 % fill up at 71p (or so) a litre before I get the ferry.
Why buy diesel cars? - Big John
Range is important to me as well. When I had my 1990 Passat 1.6TD (45-48mpg) it had an enormous fuel tank (well over 15 gallons) so would easily travel 700 miles+ before even looking for fuel. My Skoda Superb 1.9PD100 (48-53mpg) is not too bad on range as it has a 13.8 gal tank giving a easy real life range of 650miles+ . This is really useful when traveling through Europe(which I do a few times a year) , some motorway service stations are really expensive for fuel and horrendously inefficient when busy.
Why buy diesel cars? - duncansand
Nobody seems to have latched on to my quotes from the What Car? website.

Going back to the original question and quoting the original cars:

Ford Mondeo 1.8 LX Petrol, Target Price=£13431, Real Price=£15574
Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi LX Diesel, Target Price=£14266, Real Price=£14754

Real Price = 3 years, 12000 miles/year, total running costs taking into account fuel, tax, insurance, depreciation.

So, despite being cheaper to purchase, the petrol is actually more expensive for mr average by £820....partly due to fuel, but mainly due to the better residual value of the diesel. Perhaps mr average isn't so daft after all!


Why buy diesel cars? - mk124
Diesels, environmentally friendly?

If you think that you are stupid. See link.

www.inlinediesel.com/multimedia/

Then again there is no explaining americans!
 

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