Estate help - Beejy
Hello everyone,

I'm a complete newbie here and hope my query is appropriate.

I'm looking to change my old Renault Clio for a bigger car. I've got up to £9,500 tops to play with and want something diesel and an estate.

Diesel for the obvious consumption concerns and estate because I have a dog, could be getting another in the not too distant future. I also don't want anything with sky-high miles - preferrably under 40k.

I've been looking at Parkers, Whatcar and this website and think I should be looking at (in order of preference) Ford Focus 1.8TDCi, 2) Skoda Octavia 1.9 Elegance (it's 110bhp, I think the Ambiente at 90bhp may be a little underpowered as I may buy something to tow in a few years) 3) Vauxhall Astra (if I can get a new shape in my budget).

I also love the look of the Renault Megane 1.9 dci but am worried by the reliability score. I wouldn't touch a Pug 307 for the same reason.

Ideally I'd go for a Japanese car but they don't really come in my price bracket. Though out of desperation I have driven a n inexpensive old-style 113bhp Nissan X-Trail (not the new 136bhp) and loved it - if I could be persuaded of its reliability and reasonable costs.

Despite my eco-concerns with a 4x4 one would be pretty handy as I spend many weekends in the year parking on wet and muddy fields at dog shows - though I've only been REALLY worried in my Clio once or twice.

I am at a loss what to do. Diesel estates in my price range seem to be like hens' teeth...it seems to me I can either go up a price bracket and there's plenty of choice or down a price bracket and settle for something older and with more miles on the clock, which I'm loathe to do.

Am I looking for something that doesn't exist or can anyone suggest an alternative?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Estate help - Westpig
i have driven an Astra 1.7 diesel saloon(new shape) occasionally at work and find it noticeably underpowered, far worse than the older ones which were 2 litres......... i'd avoid that model,

the other thing is the new plastics etc seem quite cheap looking
Estate help - SpamCan61 {P}
>>Diesel for the obvious consumption concerns

What's your annual mileage? A diesel isn't necessarily the cheapest in terms of overall running costs, they tend to be more expensive to buy, and, as you've already found out, choice is more limited. On the other hand if you do 30K per year of round town driving ignore me ;-)
Estate help - Altea Ego
2003 53 Reg NISSAN Primera 2.2Dci SE
5 Doors, Manual, Estate, Diesel, 19,000 miles, Metallic Grey, 1 Owner. ABS, Adjustable steering column/wheel, Air conditioning, Alloy wheels, Central locking, Climate control, Computer, Electric windows, Electric sunroof, Foglights, Head restraints, Folding rear seats, Lumbar support, Immobiliser, Park distance control, Power assisted steering, Rear armrest, Remote locking, Side airbags, Radio/CD, Rear headrests, estate, Child locks, Colour coding - Body, Electric mirrors, Full service history, Locking wheel nuts, Metallic paintwork.Insurance Group:8, 6 speed gearbox rear T.V.parking £8,180.

see the autotrader link to the left

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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Estate help - tyro
You'll also find a Mazda 6 diesel estate (2004) and a couple of Toyota Avensis estates in your price range on Autotrader.

You'll find quite a lot of Mondeo diesel estates less that 2 years old with less than 40,000 miles on the clock in your price range.

But I'd suggest being prepared to look at higher mileage cars. Fair enough not wanting an older car, but- 60,000 motorway miles will have done the car little harm. You are better off getting a newish car with high motorway mileage than an older car with few miles that has done a lot of short journeys.

Estate help - tyro
And I suppose I should add - have you considered a Citroen Berlingo? You'll get one brand new in your price range - and it can do most things an estate can do.
Estate help - Beejy
Thanks for all your help.

I must admit a few family members have had Citroens in the past and they've always struck me as being a bit cheap and tinny. Though I'm more than happy to stand corrected on the matter if I'm wrong ;-)

I do around 12k miles a year at the moment - most of the weeksdays to and from work - about a 15 mile round trip - then longer journeys at the weekends. Would that consitute enough miles to warrant a diseasel (as my brother calls them!)?

I'll check out those Mazdas now...




Estate help - Adam {P}
I think the mileage at which a diesel becomes worth it is around 15-18k a year.


Estate help - SpamCan61 {P}
12K does sound a bit low to make a diesel worthwhile; I've also just noticed that the OP parks on muddy fileds; diesel engines tend to be heavier, and combined with FWD can mean a lot of weight on the front axle. From personal experience this means they get stuck in mud somewhat easier than the equivalnet petrol model :-(. It was like glastonbury but with less music and more mud. ho hum.
Estate help - Altea Ego
Does the extra weight over the driving wheels not help grip and traction? What about the higher torque at lower revs?


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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Estate help - SpamCan61 {P}
Does the extra weight over the driving wheels not help grip
and traction? What about the higher torque at lower revs?

You would think so, but in my practical example the vehicle in question, a Fiat Brava 1.9(?) Diesel IIRC, just sank deeper and deeper in the mud whilst thos of us trying to push it out got a good spraying.
Estate help - NowWheels
I think the mileage at which a diesel becomes worth it
is around 15-18k a year.


A rule of thumb like that may make sense when buying a new car on a company scheme, but the equations are very different when buying privately or buying s/h. It depends a lot on the depreciation between sale and purchase, the comparitive longevity of the two engines.

A diesel engine on that size of car will probably save about £300 per 10,000 miles. Bought new, the diesel car will cost more, but probably hold its value better, so it'll probably pay for itself after about 20,000 miles, regardless of whether those miles ae clocked up in 3 months or 4 years.

OTOH, the price gap on s/h cars can be a lot wider, so a s/h petrol car can be a much better buy.

Rather than working off a rule-of-thumb devised for a very different ownership scenario, much better to do the sums for the car concerned: calculate the fuel cost saving over the ownership period, and compare the drop in value over the same time.
Estate help - Adam {P}
I don't use rule of thumbs ;-)

I probably do closer to 20k a year and my next car will still be a petrol. Personal preference has got to feature in there somewhere too.
Estate help - Xileno {P}
Adam is right. Personal preference is important - that's why I have a diesel despite only doing 9K a year.
Incidentally my diesel is useless on soft ground, in bad weather I have problems getting it out of the grassed drive. May be something to do with the low profile alloys though.
Estate help - Lud
Whether or not a diesel car is 'economically worthwhile' owing to the mileage driven, there is great comfort in knowing how much further it can go on a tank of fuel than an equivalent petrol-powered car. This psychological smugness, linked to lower cash outflows, is not to be underestimated.
Estate help - barchettaman
......Despite my eco-concerns with a 4x4 one would be pretty handy as I spend many weekends in the year parking on wet and muddy fields at dog shows - though I've only been REALLY worried in my Clio once or twice.....

By the sounds of things you need a good tow-rope rather than 4WD, in the unlikely event of gettiing properly stuck surely a fellow breeder could drag you out in her 4x4 (or just attach a husky or two).
Estate help - local yokel
I have a car that only does 8k a year (not my total mileage). It's a diesel. It's paid for itself in the second year of ownership, but maybe that's because it only cost £650 in the first place. Does 45 mpg (against 33 ish to its petrol equiv), enough push when I can use it, and quite comfortable for me, plus whatever I'm lugging. 405 TD btw.

So you can save money on a diesel on low mileage ;-) - you just have to do the sums and work out how much to spend on one. The more miles you do, the more you can spend, and still save. Simple as that.
Estate help - SpamCan61 {P}
>>, there is great comfort in knowing how much further it can go on a tank of fuel than an equivalent petrol-powered car. This psychological smugness, linked to lower cash outflows, is not to be underestimated.

Maybe buy a petrol car with a bigger tank then.....

Seriously, I don't have any axe to grind with respect to diesels, the nicest car I've driven in the last few years was a Renault Scenic with the 1.9dCi and 6 speed manual box. It's just I get a little wary when people seem to automatically assume that buying a diesel will save them money, it isn't that simple. Personally, despite driving 30K or so a year, I still drive a petrol car, the sums just didn't add up for the equivalent diesel - my driving is mostly motorway plodding where the difference in economy is smallest.
Estate help - commerdriver
I don't use rule of thumbs ;-)

Being pedantic, isn't it rules of thumb? ;-)
Estate help - turbo11
Have a look out for a mazda 6 estate.I reckon you may just about get one for that money.
 

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