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Saw my fist Dodge Caliber yesterday - their advert strap line is the most honest around. 'It's anything but cute'! What an ugly piece of kit.
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I like the look of Qashqai, and I hope it will be unpopular, so they can discount it to normal price levels like they did with Almera. It's the Renault under bonnet that I fear....
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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You don't have anything to worry, as you keep telling us "[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]"
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I understand that Civic is doing much better than expected with user chooser fleet business,and i for one think its a great car and it certainly makes its competitors look very old fashioned.Who would ever choose an Astra,Megane,307 etc over the Jazz?
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"Who would ever choose an Astra,Megane,307 etc over the Jazz?"
Me for one, especially as the Jazz does not have a diesel.
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Looks like another nail in the coffin of proper spelling, or is it just the next step along the road to a language full of internationally meaningless marketing-speak?
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>>I understand that Civic is doing much better than expected with user chooser fleet business,and i for one think its a great car and it certainly makes its competitors look very old fashioned.Who would ever choose an Astra,Megane,307 etc over the Jazz?<<
I think I'd probably have every one of those over the Jazz.
With regards to the new Civic, see loads of them around here. I could go out now and it's pretty much a guarantee I'll see one on the road somewhere. I think they look great.
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My mistake,i actually meant Civic,not Jazz,but same thing really in its class the Jazz is just so much better than the competition.
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If it was the Civic, then I'd choose it over the competition.
With regards to the Jazz, it'd feature very low down on the list. It doesn't look nice, it doesn't especially give a nice drive or ride, and it's laughably overpriced. They weren't designed with me in mind though I guess.
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With regards to the Jazz, it'd feature very low down on the list. It doesn't look nice,
My wife & kids love it.
it doesn't especially give a nice drive or ride
I agree, but they wouldn't notice either way.
>>and it's laughably overpriced.
Find the equivalent spec and it's pretty similar to Yaris / Polo / Modus / Fiesta. I paid just about £10K for ours 3 yrs ago and I was offered £6500 "maybe more" by the dealer in a casual enquiry about swapping it for a new one.
I dread to think of the value of a 3yr old Fiesta. My brother just handed one back at the end of its PCP as it was worth less than the guaranteed final value.
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Bill,
I'm not trying to have a pop at the Jazz. Like I said - as a family vehicle I'm sure it's great. But for 10 grand, I could get a a Fiesta ST (I don't especially want one) or even a nicely specced Ghia. They don't do much for me but I can appreciate they're reliable and very good family transport for a smallish family.
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I understand that Civic is doing much better than expected with user chooser fleet business
Car rental company outside our office replaced their fleet of Micras, Primeras and Almeras with blue and black Civics this month. Lower spec Civics look kind of funny, stripped from all sporty gear, even those famous triangular exhausts have cheap looking plastic caps on them...
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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"Who would ever choose an Astra, Megane, 307 etc over the Jazz?"
I assume you mean Civic rather than Jazz as it's a completely different class of car? The new Civic is hideous with great lumps of unnecessary clear / reflective bits & a weird looking rear with strange mesh sections like something out of Max Power magazine. Rather than looking futuristic, it looks like a throw back to the 1980's.
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You don't have anything to worry, as you keep telling us>> "[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]"
Hehe. dCI's in Qashqai will be from Laguna range though. It's the end of an era, proper, chain driven diesels will be available only in pickups...
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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The 2.0 dCi is chain driven.
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The 2.0 dCi is chain driven.
World is coming to an end. Must have been joint venture with someone.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Hehe. dCI's in Qashqai will be from Laguna range though.
Well the Qashqai's another car to put in the "wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole" pile then :(
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Have Nissan's chain-cam petrols ceased to exist too? Would be a shame to replace them with Renault units.
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The Qashqai comes with two diesel options, 1.5 and 2.0. The smaller engine is the Renault unit that is found in many cars already from the Renault/Nissan range. The 2.0 is the new jointly developed chain driven diesel. Not sure about the petrols but if they're Renault units then they should be OK, Renault petrol engines are quite durable.
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Daft name though...
On a more serious Note (ha ha), why are Nissan launching this at all? What's wrong with the X-Trail?
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Daft name though...
Qashqai if my memory serves me correctly are some kind of nomads wandering around Turkey and Persia?
On a more serious Note (ha ha), why are Nissan launching this at all? What's wrong with the X-Trail?
It's not replacing X-Trail, it replaces... wait for it... Almera. I understand it's supposed to be about the size of Dodge Caliber, slightly larger than Sedici.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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The Qashqai comes with two diesel options, 1.5 and 2.0. The smaller engine is the Renault unit that is found in many cars already from the Renault/Nissan range.
Are you sure about the 1.5? It would be absolutely insane to put 82bhp Clio/Micra engine into a car of this size... (gasps).
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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1.5dCi available up to 106bhp.
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Still - 1.5 dCi could barely prepel European version of Almera, let alone car, by the look of things, about the weight of current Primera?
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Still - 1.5 dCi could barely prepel European version of Almera, let alone car, by the look of things, about the weight of current Primera?
Despite the ineffciciencies of its auto gearbox, my Almera is propelled quite rapidly by its 1.8 petrol engine, which throws out about 110bhp at peak. I suspect that that a 106bhp diesel, with greater torque, would shift it along very nicely indeed.
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I suspect that that a 106bhp diesel, with greater torque, would shift it along very nicely indeed.
Maybe you are right - I might be imagining Qashqai as heavier and bigger car than it actually is. I picture something of a size of Hyundai Tucson, but heavier (Nissan cars are usually very heavy, current Almera is heavier than Mondeo for example).
If rumours that Qashqai is based on Megane II platform are true, we might be looking at something closer to a Scenic with bigger ground clearance...
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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The current Almera is heavier than which Mondeo? The current one??
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The current Almera is heavier than which Mondeo? The current one??
My Almera weights 1371 kg. New Mondeo Zetec weights 1388 kg...
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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That's shocking!!
Nope, that's build quality where it matters.
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Where is the edit button when you need it - New Mondeo weights 1365 kg
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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My Almera weights 1371 kg. New Mondeo Zetec weights 1388 kg...
No wonder my mpg plummets if I do a lot of overtaking on A-roads :(
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I took my Almera apart couple of months ago to add sound insulation (road noise is driving me nuts) and I know where all this weight comes from. The car is literally built like a tank, thick double sheets everywhere, massive rear suspension, heavy metal bars across panels, massive metal ribs under seats etc. The downside is with empty double panels everywhere it's like a big steel resonator box with every bit of sound underneath aplified inside. I was surprised to find Almera actually has very thick factory sound insulation and underlay for the car as loud as it is (much thicker than for example old Astras, which are quieter on the road).
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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I took my Almera apart couple of months ago to add sound insulation (road noise is driving me nuts) and I know where all this weight comes from. The car is literally built like a tank, thick double sheets everywhere, massive rear suspension, heavy metal bars across panels, massive metal ribs under seats etc. The downside is with empty double panels everywhere it's like a big steel resonator box with every bit of sound underneath aplified inside. I was surprised to find Almera actually has very thick factory sound insulation and underlay for the car as loud as it is (much thicker than for example old Astras, which are quieter on the road). -------------------- [Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
It'll be interesting to see how these cars fare when they get old. I'd imagine that if you Waxoiled them every 3 years they'd last pretty much indefinitely. The current Primera is much the same (hence the 1.8 engine is barely enough to move the thing). Pity the Primera isn't built properly really.
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I took my Almera apart couple of months ago to add sound insulation (road noise is driving me nuts) and I know where all this weight comes from. The car is literally built like a tank, thick double sheets everywhere, massive rear suspension, heavy metal bars across panels, massive ..................................
Thats not build quality, Anything that needs that amount of girdiring to maintain stiffness is downright poor design,.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Thats not build quality, Anything that needs that amount of girdiring to maintain stiffness is downright poor design,.
I don't think they were trying to achieve ridgity.
In April 2005 I was (quite literally) nudged off the motorway by 18 tonne truck changing lanes without checking its mirrors. Side bars of the trailer hit left side of the car at 56 mph around rear quarter panel, then continued sliding across both doors, ripped side mirror until safety frame around rear wheel of the trailer hit met the rear quarter panel and knocked my car off the course towards central preservation barriers and stopped when right side wheels and skirts hit high kerb. Panels were completely mangled, fuel tank mount moved, fuel cap and intake pipes damaged, but all side impact bars inside doors and girds in panels were in perfect shape and so were skirts. I actually lost court battle with truck driver because judge, despite photographic evidence of aftermath, could not imagine how I could possibly be hit by 18 tonne truck and knocked off the road and not only survive but for the car to sustain such, all things considered, relatively little damage... :)
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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I took my Almera apart couple of months ago to add sound insulation (road noise is driving me nuts)
Road noise on my Almera is one of its few weak points. I'd be very intersted to hear how you went about this, and how successful the job was.
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Road noise on my Almera is one of its few weak points. I'd be very interested to hear how you went about this, and how successful the job was.
The job was fairly successful - on most roads, at most speeds, I now notice wind noise more than road noise.:)
There is few weak spots in Almera which can be remedied fairly easily. Door surrounds are badly insulated, despite proper looking rubber strips you'll find that if you close your doors you can quite easily push soft wire or strip of plastic through the gap and see it appear on the other side. Old school test with radio playing inside and listening with your ear close to the edges of the door on the outside to find weak spots. That's the first thing to fix, makes a lot of difference.
Second massive weak spot is boot. There is almost no sound insulation at all on the boot floor, except thin, cardboard backed, pull out carpet. I've done my boot and floors "by the book" - liquid barriers and sound insulation rolls from car sound shops - multiple layers of butyl or bitumen based insulation. But it adds weight to the car and I can now see the effect was probably not worth all the money and effort.
I would suggest you go for the "ghetto" solution, which is what I used for the second layer - it was much cheaper and much more effective. Visit your local carpet shop, choose one of the "end of the line" cheap carpets, something soft, easy to cut and work with but thick. Buy some thick floor underlay as well. Remove boot carpet and grey overlay, unscrew plastic side panels in the boot and cut the carpet to the size of the floor and side walls - so it goes everywhere including wheel arches, as high up side panels as pos. Use double sided carpet tape to stick underlay to the floor and panels, put carpet on the top, screw the side panels and covers back on (pressing and forcing carpet to go in all the right places might be required). You then cut square "door" in carpet and underlay for easy spare wheel removal, put extra layer of carpet around boot floor only, cover it with original factory grey overlay and voila.
You can also add extra layer of carpet or sound proofing floor underlay to the main floor area and under seats. Careful with airbag connectors under front seats. What else? B pillars and C pillars are completely empty. C pillars are hollow all the way from the roof to wheel arches and you can even put your hand all the way down to the bottom of rear quarter panels from empty space behind rear light clusters (where the shopping nets are). That's why every single knock or squeak of rear suspension can be heard inside the car. I don't think Mercedes cruising silence can be achieved in this car but noise levels can be greatly improved.
Excuse geeky post.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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The Qashqai comes with two diesel options, 1.5 and 2.0. The smaller engine is the Renault unit that is found in many cars already from the Renault/Nissan range. The 2.0 is the new jointly developed chain driven diesel. Not sure about the petrols but if they're Renault units then they should be OK, Renault petrol engines are quite durable.
The Renault petrol units are fairly reasonable, but I'd still far rather have a proper Japanese engine.
As for the Renault diesel engines, they're probably the most fragile units out there. 10-foot pole time, and the new one can't be trusted until it's been available for at least 3 years given Renault's past record (the old Nissan diesels were as tough as old boots but unrefined so they won't be making up much of the new design).
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The Renault petrol units are fairly reasonable, but I'd still far rather have a proper Japanese engine.
Me too. Take the last model Clio for example. Lovely 1.2 litre 16v engine, powerful enough for motorways etc. Lovely to drive, not bad on juice either. That's until the cambelt snaps at 36k, having only managed half its lifespan (a common problem, referred to in the CBC). Or you could buy the diesel version, and the EGR valve might decide to stay closed, knackering the turbo and resulting in a dead car at the end of an oily smokescreen.
Driving dynamics and styling are all well and good, but the strength of the engine is much more important IMO. I fear I might've bought my last Nissan.
Incidentally what autoboxes are available? Jatco units, or the rubbish usually fitted in Renaults?
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Driving dynamics and styling are all well and good, but the strength of the engine is much more important IMO. I fear I might've bought my last Nissan. Incidentally what autoboxes are available? Jatco units, or the rubbish usually fitted in Renaults?
I've had eight Nissans (more than that if the familys cars are taken in to account) and I have surely had my last. Apart from not liking urban tractors or vans with windows - as most of the new/upcoming range woudl appear to be - my current Primera P12 is too ridddled with stupid, niggly, - but potentially costly out of warranty - faults. The old P11 and P10 models were far better drivers cars, but for room and comfort and equipment the P12 takees some beating. Unfortunately while Renault may be on the up they have dragged Nissan down big time. Thank you Renault for wasting an otherwise ecxellent product.
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In reply to scott1s,
Yup, I've heard the same from three acquaintences of mine who own newer Primeras and Micras, the quality has gone down big-time since the marque was taken over by that French shower.
Unfortunately, as Renault have proven, pretty garbage will beat "boring" quality engineering any day.
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Unfortunately, as Renault have proven, pretty garbage will beat "boring" quality engineering any day.
What amuses me is that Renaults are praised on launch because of the driving experience, technological gimmicks, pretty looks etc etc. (Look at the recent roadtest of the Clio 1.4!). You can't possibly say whether a car is good or bad when it's launched - any new car should be reliable, and many feel very similar to drive, but after 5 or 6 years - that's a different story.
Looking around at most new cars, I really don't know what I'd buy if i were shopping, but it's increasingly likely to be Korean rather than Japanese - sometimes a good copy of well-proven engineering is better than "ground-breaking" stuff, which in future will most likely be "wallet-breaking" too.
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What amuses me is that Renaults are praised on launch ....
Well, I can undertsand new car owners perhaps seeing driving experience as being more important than reliability, after all they're not the ones paying for the repairs, and the car is still tight when it is new.
But at 5 or 6 years old, and I don't care what people say, a second-hand car is almost invariably not as sharp to drive as when it was new. And given that being good to drive actually encourages the kind of driving that will lead to more faults further down the line, and the fact that you'll be paying for any repairs at this age, I don't think that the driving experience is anywhere near as important as reliability at this age of car.
Looking around at most new cars, I really don't know what I'd buy if i were shopping, but it's increasingly likely to be Korean rather than Japanese - sometimes a good copy of well-proven engineering is better than "ground-breaking" stuff, which in future will most likely be "wallet-breaking" too.
Well I came to that conclusion three years ago when I bought the Hyundai. Thing with Korean cars is that whilst the reliability is very good indeed, you don't get the quality feel that you get in a modern Japanese or European car. Once you put perceptions out of your mind though, the car wins you over when you realise that the durability is far better than you think on first impressions.
So yeah, for good, cheap, reliable, honest and unpretentious basic transport it's hard to beat the Koreans. Just don't expect any of the short-term "wow" factor you get with some other vehicles (not that that matters to me as the feeling wears off pretty quickly).
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Jase,
Sorry to disagree but, I disagree. You could offer me a brand new Almera, (maybe not a Primera because it's so different), Tino, or anything Korean in exchange for my 7 year old Focus and I wouldn't take it. That's because my 7 year old Focus still drives better than new(ish) Almeras I've had to have a go in.
I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but you could offer me pretty much any new Renault (Clio aside and Megane aside unless it has 225 after it) and I would bite your hand off.
I'd never buy a Renault with my own money but they're interesting and I'd happily fix minor faults if it meant having something interesting. The problem with a lot of Nissans (and other Jap/Korean cars) is that they're the most reliable machinery on Earth. But if having reliability like that means having a boring car, then you can keep it.
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We have Renault, VW & Toyota so have no axe to grind one way or the other. It all depends on what your priorities are. If you want as close to 100% fault-free motoring as you can get, then the balance of probability is that Japanese will give you a better chance of achieving this. My priorities are slightly different though, I find that a Renault has a certain character and design flair that gets me interested in my motoring. I have enjoyed owning all my Renaults.
Of far greater importance is what your dealer is like and I am lucky that our local Renault dealer is brilliant. On the odd occasion when I've had a problem, it's been diagnosed quickly and fixed often with no appointment and no charge. That to me is by far the biggest consideration when buying a car, cars are complex and from time to time things will go wrong. What then becomes important is how those problems are dealt with.
As for Renault dragging Nissan down, I couldn't possibly comment. However a contact I met 'on the inside' has told me that warranty claims for Renault are moving in the right direction, although he did concede from a less than satisfactory position.
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I recently asked an AA patrolman which cars he sees most commonly - he said he rarely sees a Honda, Nissan or Toyota, but advised against buying a Renault or a Saab. He reckoned everything else was reasonably reliable, however he did admit to only owning Japanese cars.
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