Additionally, and most important to private buyers like myself, their attitude towards the customer sets them apart from other car companies. Without going into a lot of detail I am about to get the best part of a new engine and catalytic converter on my 4+ year old car due to a known (to Toyota) oil consumption issue. I didn't even have to ask: the dealer's attitude is to send me away a happy customer.
I am willing to believe that Toyota products are not much different in terms of quality to many mainstream manufacturers but their commitment to improvement and customer satisfaction sets them apart from most.
You could look at this story from a different perspective of course, the Company that always tops (nearly always) polls like JD Power are about to undertake to improve the quality of their products. If you were an executive at most European manufacturers, or Ford/GM, you would be delighted, wouldn't you?
|
The main disappintment with Toyota is their withdrawal from the "performance" sector of the industry, no celica, no MR2 - serious mistake in my opinion.
|
There will be a performance Toyota along before not too long. They're not pouring millions into F1 just for the fun of it!
|
|
|
>>The main disappintment with Toyota is their withdrawal from the "performance" sector of the industry, no celica, no MR2 - serious mistake in my opinion.<<
I cried when we stopped getting Supras.
|
|
|
As ancient clients of Toyota - back to the first Carina, soon followed by the TA22 Celica - agree - we think Toyotas are becoming thoroughly boring at the moment
There are mutters about a new Supra. Until then, Toad, with chip, rules!
|
Meanwhile Sonata V6 rules.
|
If I wasn't so dead set on a big saloon for my next car, I honestly think it'd be a Frogeye Supra.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Spot on. In my opinion Toyota's does not have a problem, as all the survyes show they consistently rank amongst the most relaible car makers. Thier problem is a relative one in that quality has slightly slipped and this has been reflected in recent management action other car co's take note!!. Thier quality problem is relative, relative to thier very own high expectations - Using the Avensis as an example how many car co's guarantee known troblesome parts for 5 years, Peugeot, Renault, VW, Ford will tell you to ...... . Most Euro manufactureres have an absalute quality problem, always at the bottom of league tables almost attributed to poor manufacturing logsitics, staff training and management indifference and attuitude, take VW as an example: overlapping brands, excess plants operating below capacity, cumbersome supervisory board, staff forced to accept wage cuts ...no wonder quality suffers.... etc etc....
|
My family have owned a few Toyotas over the years along with a Honda, Subaru, Mazda, Daihatsu and Suzuki and all have been faultlessly reliable with great dealers.
Toyota may not use the higehst quality materials, but id still put my money on their reliability and build quality above anything european.
Its only when you have owned something like a Toyota, you realise that trips to the dealer between services arent normal!
Sounds like Toyota are attacking the problem head-on and good on them.
|
|
|
I think that as any car manufacturer expands beyond its home base it must become quite difficult to keep a tight check on things like quality control - especially with factories situated thousands of miles from Head Office in regions not renowned for engineering excellence and run by locally recruited management overseeing employees whose background might be in agriculture.
Volkswagen quality and reliability was indeed streets ahead of all its competitors in the fifties and sixties. It was only when those competitors expanded to include Datsun and Toyota in the mid-seventies that the situation began to change.
|
The build quality of british built corollas is shockingly bad, squeaks, rattles etc.
My dads japanese previa on the other hand is excellent.
Their cars are reliable but I wouldn't really buy them
|
The build quality of british built corollas is shockingly bad, squeaks, rattles etc. My dads japanese previa on the other hand is excellent. Their cars are reliable but I wouldn't really buy them
I don't believe this to be true. Just taking an opportunity to have a pop at anything made in Britain.
|
|
|
|
I think that as any car manufacturer expands beyond its home base it must become quite difficult to keep a tight check on things like quality control - especially with factories situated thousands of miles from Head Office in regions not renowned for engineering excellence and run by locally recruited management overseeing employees whose background might be in agriculture.
Indeed, which is one of the reasons I believe Hyundai/Kia are going to be a major force in the coming years.
They still build their cars in huge factories in one location. They are expanding but it's going to be some time before this is widespread. In the meantime, their cars have a proven reliable base, the build quality is improving all the time and it is beginning to register with buyers that certain brands are better than others, and that VW and Nissan have been slipping quite badly recently. This will also be the reason Toyota are jumping on their fairly minor issues now before the faults become more severe -- Nissan are a joke these days under Renault's control, and Toyota have eyes on the big prize, the largest manufacturer in the world.
Which is why I always laugh when British people subconsciously imply that Toyota are not mainstream... wha??
|
I think Hyundai is already starting to show its class - my mums Hyundai Coupe V6 is a seriously lovely car AND it comes with a 5 year warranty ( including 3 years of free servicing ) all for £16,500.
Its done 14,000 fault-free miles, the dealer is superb and my mum turned down a Toyota MR2, Celica, Vauxhall Astra Coupe,Mazda MX-5 and Smart Roadster to own a Hyundai.... how times have changed!
I think Toyota is well capable of being largest manufacturer in the world - they realise that for teh majority of owners, its more important that the radio works than the texture of the dasboard plastic.
|
|
|
Indeed, which is one of the reasons I believe Hyundai/Kia are going to be a major force in the coming years. They still build their cars in huge factories in one location.
Hyundai Sonata (the most popular car they sell in the US) is built at a Hyundai factory in Alabama - by employees whose background is largely in agriculture! It scores highly with consumers for quality and reliability and IIRC comes with 10 year warranty. Hyundai also has a factory in India and one in Turkey which supplies some cars for the European market.
Nissan are a joke these days under Renault'scontrol,
What do you mean a 'joke' - where is the evidence for this? Nissan are very successful in the US, Japan and some other areas such as Australasia. In the UK they are moving into 'niche' vehicles and away from 'fleet' vehicles (for more profit per vehicle, rather than market share). I gather the Note is selling well and I reckon the new P32L will sell well. I wouldn't buy one with a Renault Diesel engine in it though.
|
|
|
|
I think that as any car manufacturer expands beyond its home base it must become quite difficult to keep a tight check on things like quality control - especially with factories situated thousands of miles from Head Office in regions not renowned for engineering excellence and run by locally recruited management overseeing employees whose background might be in agriculture.
This is not the experience of the Japanese. Many US-market Toyotas including the Camry and pickups are made in the US. The Camry is made in Kentucky with about a 90%+ local content. It scores very highly is quality surveys and is reckoned the equal of Japan-built Camrys. Similarly the pickups are made in the Fresno palnt - an ex-GM plant that GM had almost given up on due to problems with the workforce. Its now one of Toyotas most efficient plants. Japanese-owned plants in the UK have a good record for both quality and productivity. The success of the Japanese stems from good design and design-for-manufacture, plus having a different approach to employ relations which is nothing like the 'Anglo-Saxon' 'command and control' ideology that's cause so many problems for Ford and GM.
Volkswagen quality and reliability was indeed streets ahead of all its competitors in the fifties and sixties. It was only when those competitors expanded to include Datsun and Toyota in the mid-seventies that the situation began to change.
In the fifties and sixties VW was making the Beatle. It didn't have a lot of direct competition and although it was a reliable car I don't think it could be said to be high quality - even by the standards of the time. The first VW that competed directly with modern European saloon cars was the K70LS of the early 1970's - and that was not a great success. VW got it right with their next car, the Golf though.
|
"VW got it right with their next car, the Golf though."
Apart from the appaling body corrosion and the valve guides issue...! ;-)
|
Apart from the appaling body corrosion and the valve guides issue...! ;-)
The corrosion of the early ones was really no worse than many other cars of the time.
|
I think there is something of a decline in build quality in Brit built Toyotas compared with Japanese built ones. In fact, I don't believe anything comes close to the quality of the late 80s/early 90s Toyotas/Hondas (perhaps other Japanese cars back then too). This was the period when they could afford to put so much effort into quality control, before the economic problems forced even the Japanese to look at 'decontenting', as I recall it was known, and skimping on quality (relatively). My Dad had a couple of Corollas in that period, and my Mum still has a 91J Corolla with only 41k on the clock - that thing is mint and feels like it just rolled out the factory. My 56k mile 00X Mondeo is like a bag of spanners in comparison, leaving a trail of superfluous trim wherever it goes, although mechanically fit as a fiddle.
Dad has also had 3 Brit built Japanese cars:
Avensis MK1 - steering rack and suspension needed replacing, couple of bits of loose trim
Corolla (prev model) - dashboard came apart on day 1 and alloys needed replacing twice in 3 years
Civic - two years old, no real probs but a few rattles
All the faults were willingly fixed under warranty, but these are problems that simply didn't occur on the earlier Japanese ones.
To finish on a positive, this is all relative, I still believe Toyota build great cars - and I am putting my money where my mouth is as I pick up my own new Avensis on Friday. Fingers crossed for a happy ownership experience....!
|
> I think there is something of a decline in build quality
in Brit built Toyotas compared with Japanese built ones. In fact,
I don't believe anything comes close to the quality of the
late 80s/early 90s Toyotas/Hondas (perhaps other Japanese cars back then too).<
I certainly agree that the 80's japanese cars were pretty great build wise.
My old Mazda ( 1986 ) is on a whole different planet quality wise compared to the Ford Escort of the same age. Even now 20 years on, the carpet still looks like new, there are no cracks, rattles or bits of loose trim.
Looking at the state of my customers Focus the other day which at 15k has holes in the carpet through wear, I think its about time the rest upped their game!
|
|
|
|
|
