>> My last car was an A6 2.7tdi >>
Martin, what happened to it?An accident? New job? Or do you simply not keep your company cars for long?
Regards.
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nobody who has actually driven these 3 models could think them even close to nothingy. Next week I?m ordering an A6 3.0tdi,
You might be right, but the initial question was posed around the 2.0L 4 cyl models, and you're talking a couple of levels up from there.
I didn't drive the car - despite its size (it's bigger than both the 5 series and the E Class) it doesn't have any presence and I didn't even feel interested enough to drive it, despite the salesman's insistance. Obviously that's just my opinion - others may think it's wonderful (although not many, judging by the paucity of A6's on the roads).
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The rise of the 2.0 4 pot diesel exec is purely down to company car tax rules rather than anything else. Volume is everything for manufacturers these days and the more cars they can lease out to fleets the better.
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A friend has been given an A6 diesel of some description as her company car. However on her weekly commute to/from Brussels, she finds it too big for small British towns and more interestingly, too long/wide and unagile to get onto the Eurostar with any degree of ease or grace.
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I remember trying a couple (including the 2.0Tdi) back when it was launched. I found the apparant bulk of the thing to be a pain plus the 2.0Tdi is not refined enough for that class of car and its "all or nothing" power delivery is not what I want in an exec saloon. Shame really, it's not a bad car, the build quality is greta but there is some crazy over-complication in the cabin.
But the 5-series and new E-class are much better.
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The 2.0tdi wasn't available anywhere near the A6 launch and I seem to remember you opining on an autobox which didn't exist.
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Disregarding most of the popular SUVs, which are generally wider, the e-class, and s-max are wider than the A6, the Chrysler 300C is longer, the 5 series is narrower and shorter by a few cm. I live in rural Hampshire and travel by Eurotunnel 2-4 times per month and I can assure you that neither situations present the slightest difficulties for a competent driver who knows his or her car. I would suggest that rather than this being a problem specific to the A6, your friend is simply not a confident driver with a large car which would encompass most SUVs and the other models mentioned above.
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The rise of the 2.0 4 pot diesel exec is purely down to company car tax rules rather than anything else.
I'm not sure that's the whole story - I was buying with my own money (OK, I'm opting out of a company car) - but I need something as economical as is feasible (while still meeting other criteria) hence I looked at things like 520d. It's the ecomomy that's important to me, rather than CO2/tax (I know they're linked).
Although 520d is newish here - it's been available for years on the continent. The previous shape 5 series had a 520d there, but it was never sold in the UK.
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I didn't drive the car - despite its size (it's bigger than both the 5 series and the E Class) it doesn't have any presence
I wonder if the fact that in bare & basic, poverty spec 2.0 D se spec the car costs over £25000 and has a tiddly engine to trundle it around has anything to do with it ? And for me £25000 is waaaaayyyyyyyy overpriced.
And if road prescence is your thing, my 300C pees all over the three of them in that category as well as offering multiple other advantages over the German cars.
MTC
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I wonder if the fact that in bare & basic, poverty spec 2.0 D se spec the car costs over £25000 and has a tiddly engine to trundle it around has anything to do with it ?
But but but but but it's got four circles on the front!!!!!
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Large saloons have never been big sellers and depreciate accordingly, hence the lease cost issue. In terms of interior fit I'd still have the A6 over the A4, the last one I drove was beginning to show its age. Is a new model A4 on the horizon? A 170PS 2.0 TDi would be a better option in the A6.
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Large saloons have never been big sellers and depreciate accordingly, hence the lease cost issue.
The whole point of the original post was that the A6 was *cheaper* than the equiv A4 to lease!!
(This is obviously because Audi are throwing subsidies at it because it isn't selling).
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"a tiddly engine to trundle it around" - Murph. like most people here I doubt that you've actually driven this car. The performance of this car is on a par with similarly engined Mondeos, Vectras, Passats and 407s and this means it's not remotely underpowered. Didn't you have a Rover diesel - was it a dog which trundled around? I think that you should think of the OP who is posting to get advice and not have his list of cars slagged off by folk who haven't even driven them.
FWIW I had a follow up test drive in a run-in 300C and whilst it has road prescence, nice exterior styling and a decent enough engine, I'm afraid that's where it ends. I drove it for 4 days straight after a 5 series and before an A6 and each day really contrasted the differences in the solidity, the comfort, the poor quality of the cabin and the very average handling of the Chrysler next to the Germans. The Germans might be bare and basic alongside the Chrysler but at least what is there is decent quality and sitting on a decent chassis and I was surprised how much I missed these elements in the 300C. The Chrysler attracted a fair number of comments but I have to say that there were as many people who disliked the car as liked it, and TBH I was probably the most enthusiastic of anybody about the exterior styling, but having handed it back I was so relieved to get into a solid, planted and well screwed together car. I don't think that we're really comparing apples and oranges but having extensively driven the three cars I don't think that decision between a 520d, the A6 2.0tdi and the 300C would necessarily be that easy.
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The performance of this car is on a par with similarly engined Mondeos, Vectras, Passats and 407s and this means it's not remotely underpowered.<<
But Martin, surely an Audi A4 is on a par with these cars. Shouldn't an A6 far exceed their performance?
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Disregard what I've just said. I've just noticed it's cheaper to lease than the A4 so it's kind of irrelevant.
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Disregard what I've just said. I've just noticed it's cheaper to lease than the A4 so it's kind of irrelevant.
Actually, I think it's a valid premise - if you want something with the performance of an everyday Mondeo etc, then buy a Mondeo. An A6 ought to be above that.
OK, I know you can get very high performance Mondeo's, but I'm talking about your average rep-mobile.
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>> Actually, I think it's a valid premise - if you want something with the performance of an everyday Mondeo etc, then buy a Mondeo. An A6 ought to be above that. OK, I know you can get very high performance Mondeo's, but I'm talking about your average rep-mobile.
I disagree, an "average" diesel Mondeo provides more than adequate performance such that many buyers of premium saloons would be more than happy with the "performance of an every day Mondeo" in their A6, 5 series etc. It also worth noting that the Mondeo provides a greater level of mechanical refinement than the 2.0 TDi A6 which is only countered by the £5 to £10k more expensive A6's greater level of sound proofing etc.
The issue is whether these smaller engined premium saloons are worth the extra over their smaller siblings, A4 etc, and the top-off-the range Mondeo's etc. The latter point is answered in part by the point made a number of times in this thread, the fact that a A6 can be had for the cost of an A4 makes it good value if the spec is similar. However you pays your money and takes your choice, I for one would take the practicality of a A4 estate over the slightly larger and more imposing A6 saloon.
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such that many buyers of premium saloons would be more than happy with the "performance of an every day Mondeo" in their A6, 5 series etc. >>
To be clear, for many premium saloon buyers 0-60 in 10-11 secs, 125-130 mph, a decent slug of torque for overtaking and 45-50 mpg is ideal and they would not want to sacrifice 5-10 mpg to knock 1.5 secs of the 0-60 time yet alone pay £3-5k for the priviledge.
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I for one would take the practicality of a A4 estate over the slightly larger and more imposing A6 saloon.
I agree. A saloon is no use to me with a year old child (and assorted paraphernalia), and a medium sized dog.
Why don't the Germans "do" big hatchbacks (that aren't estates)?
Cheers
DP
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Watch this space - the A4 Roadjet may make production when the A4 is revised. Basically an A4 Sportback and if it does become reality I'll be interested. I don't do estates either, but also having a baby a saloon is hopeless.
www.testdriven.co.uk/news.cfm/audi_roadjet_concept
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A4 Road Jet, That looks very French inside and out. I like it.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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A4 Road Jet, That looks very French inside and out. I like it.
Am I missing something - it looks exactly the same as the A3 Sportback?
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- Murph. Didn't you have a Rover diesel - was it adog which trundled around?
Compared to the 300C, absolutely, but on it's own merits, it was accpetable.
FWIW I had a follow up test drive in a run-in 300C and whilst it has road prescence, nice exterior styling and a decent enough engine, I'm afraid that's where it ends. I drove it for 4 days straight
Good on you and it's a shame that the car didn't meet your expectations or requirements. On a personal basis (& after putting my money where my mouth is), a £26000 300C FOR ME offers ME a worlds worth of extra driving pleasure than a barebones £26000 Audi. & you are absolutley correct, I haven't driven an Audi A6 - in fact I struggled to get the Audi dealer to look me in the eye when I visited. I have absolutely no complaints whatsover from my 300C ownership so far, so I mabye think that what you are looking for in a car differs from what I'm after.
You surprise me about build quality issues, because 12000 miles in, I have no rattles,squaeks, panel fit issues etc to report.
The OP asks the question "is the A6 not selling?" and "is there something wrong with the A6"
I've suggested that the reason may be that the car is well overpriced and that for that sort of money you have to put up with a 2lt engine.
MTC
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Murph, don?t get me wrong I'm not saying that either car was a mass of rattles or panel gaps, in fact the fitting seemed decent enough it?s just that what the quality of what they fitted seemed poor, flimsy and hard on the eye and together with the so-so handling it just wasn?t very comfortable on long fast drives. I very much actually enjoyed the first short test drive and still think that depending on your needs, it?s a fine car which is clearly enjoyable to own and drive, though I think that the notion that any of these cars pee all over their competitors in any particular respect is insupportable nonsense. Presence and first impression is undoubtedly the greatest strength of the 300C as in ?wow look at the size of it and how it looks?, which incidentally I still love and ?wow look at the spec list?, but I sit in the car for about 4000 miles each month and for me and my needs, even with the spec and what it looks like from the outside, it didn?t stack up to the alternatives.
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MTC wrote:And if road prescence is your thing, my 300C pees all over the three of them in that category..
Yes, but there's presence, and then there's the 300C!
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Bill
On the surface there is almost no spec difference across the range so your opinion on the physical appearance and my reply applies irrespective of engines. I?ve heard some criticisms that it looks overly aggressive and criticisms of the grill but never that it lacks presence; it?s a singular if not insightful opinion which is not reflected in any reviews I?ve read or comments that I?ve heard but it?s clearly valid for you. I?m impressed, if not mildly incredulous at the suggestion that an Audi salesman engaged with, never mind offered a test drive to, a disinterested and unenthusiastic punter. IME the chaps in any of these Germanic franchises need to see genuine purchasing intent and goading with a pointy stick to even answer a question. I have to confess that I?m curious about all cars and if a sales advisor was forcing a new car test drive on me I can?t imagine ever turning one down, regardless of the model.
I?ve spent a fair time actually comparing these three cars on and off the road so at least I can speak to their respective wonderfulness with a degree of authority. None of these cars and TBH very few cars that any of us are likely to drive are genuinely wonderful, but unless one is driving something very special and exotic every morning, then IME the A6 is an extremely good car to drive, the most appealing and comfortable cabin in it?s class, truly handsome to behold and far from nothingy.
Maybe it?s regional or perhaps that you just don?t see them as they?re nothingy, but considering the smaller market for this car class I?ve noticed plenty. Draw your own conclusions.
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Bill I?m impressed, if not mildly incredulous at the suggestion that an Audi salesman engaged with, never mind offered a test drive to, a disinterested and unenthusiastic punter. IME the chaps in any of these Germanic franchises need to see genuine purchasing intent and goading with a pointy stick to even answer a question. I have to confess that I?m curious about all cars and if a sales advisor was forcing a new car test drive on me I can?t imagine ever turning one down, regardless of the model.
I was pretty amazed by the salesman, to be honest. It was Crewe Audi, by the way. I'd gone there because my nearest Audi dealer is more as you describe. He also phoned me a couple of times, until I'd actually bought a car (Merc C270 estate).
I'd really gone to look at A4 Avant but decided it wasn't big enough in the back seat (I'd looked at the Avant hoping it might have more rear legroom than the saloon, but it doesn't). The salesman agreed with me and said they pleaded with Audi to make it bigger, but, as you may know, the current A4 was rushed out to compete with the new 3 Series.
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