Most Reliable Cars - drbe
Which? magazine has just (August 2006 issue) published its data on the most reliable cars.

The most reliable model was the Honda Jazz with a score of 95% - not one Honda Jazz broke down out of more than 400 in the survey.

Medium cars 1st Toyota Corolla, 2nd Mazda 3.
Superminis 1st Honda Jazz, 2nd Renault Clio.
Large Cars 1st Honda Accord, 2nd BMW 3 Series.
Off-roaders 1st Honda CRV, 2nd Subaru Forester.
MPVs 1st Toyota Verso, 2nd Citroen Xsara Picasso.
Luxury Cars 1st Audi A6, 2nd Volvo V70.

The MPVs and Luxury cars top scores were not as high as the other classes.

One or two slight surprises in the results for me - particularly the French cars coming second in two classes.
Most Reliable Cars - cheddar
The only person I Know to run a Jazz needed a new engine at 50k miles.
Most Reliable Cars - Grenache
Apparently the Mazda 6 also has a good rating. I got one just a few months ago, but it's too early to tell.

But contrary to all the reports, my 9 year old Vectra 2.0di has only once let me down - dead battery - in 195,000 miles.

Most Reliable Cars - Xileno {P}
"One or two slight surprises in the results for me - particularly the French cars coming second in two classes."

Sssshhh. Don't tell everyone, they will all want one...
Most Reliable Cars - Avant
I've said it before and this may be a good time to say it again - find a good garage and a French car will give you as good service as any other.

I had 7 big Renaults from 1980 to 2001 and they did over 500,000 miles between them: on major failures and only one breakdown - a detached petrol pipe. All were looked after by Cross Roads Garage in Oxfordshire.

Only when I moved to the current job with a higher salary instead of a company car did I desert Renault - because of other people's problems with them the depreciation (on big Renaults at least) is too much for a private buyer.
Most Reliable Cars - Stuartli
>>not one Honda Jazz broke down out of more than 400 in the survey.>>

But no one has asked the many hundreds, thousands even, of other Jazz drivers for their opinion.

One of my mates, who can literally afford whatever car he wants (currently a brand new Bentley), bought a Jazz for his other half because it seemed to fit the bill exactly for her life style,.

Within three or four months it very quickly made way for a C-class Mercedes...:-)

Among the faults the Jazz exhibited, from brand new, was a battery that flattened itself within a very short time.

I won't bore you with the rest.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Most Reliable Cars - turbo11
My Mazda 6 is now 30 months old.31000 trouble free miles so far.(bet that puts the kiss of death on it!)
Most Reliable Cars - buzbee
This survey is about 10 months old but might interest. It includes links to 'average cost of repair' etc.

www.reliabilityindex.co.uk

(Sorry, buzbee, changed the link to one we recognise, which is after all where the 'What Car' information came from. HJ)
Most Reliable Cars - Xileno {P}
These issues have been discussed before.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=41559&...e
Most Reliable Cars - Altea Ego
All true statements


All French cars are unreliable and will let you down at the chance.

All German cars are solid and reliable and will never give a moments trouble.

Santa is alive and well and lives in my garage



------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Most Reliable Cars - Cheeky
What about Lexus? Thought they were the most reliable motors yet...
Most Reliable Cars - y2k+4
Although I haven't yet had chance to look at it - I shall look tonight when I'm at Mum's, I often have trouble with these surveys if they tend to show grave differences in cars that share technology and parts - ie. Xsara and 306, Saxo and 106, Golf and Bora, Sharalhaxy. As said, haven't seen it, but if I find these results have such discrepancies I'll take mine with a pinch of salt.
Most Reliable Cars - mountainkat
Here's the top 10 according to "warranty directs" reliability index:

www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/tophundred.html?apc=312...1


1 Honda Accord
2 Subaru Forester
3 Mazda MX-5
4 Mitsubishi Carisma
5 Toyota Yaris .
6 Honda Civic
7 Nissan Almera
8 Honda CR-V
9 Toyota RAV4
10 Nissan Micra
Most Reliable Cars - Xileno {P}
I promised myself I would not get involved in this anymore....

Warranty Direct is the an assessment of the number of faults multiplied by the cost to fix.
Most Reliable Cars - v0n
.. well, possibly every reliability survey ever made in recent years had Renault Clio in bottom 1/4 of their list but suddenly Which? discovers it is in fact very misjudged second most reliable car on the market. I enjoy reading Which? surveys and they can be informative but they almost always get their recommendations wrong and you to go through the figures yourself and draw your own conclusions...
--------------------
[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
Most Reliable Cars - JH
TVM,
may I have the address please? Christmas is coming, according to the catalogues coming through my letterbox.
JH
Most Reliable Cars - Timaru
The biggest surprise being Ford's Focus C-Max languishing in last place.
Most Reliable Cars - machika
Well, if a Ford is in last place it must be wrong. If it had been a French car there would have been lots of nods of agreement.
Most Reliable Cars - Adam {P}
That's a bit of a silly thing to say really.
Most Reliable Cars - machika
That's a bit of a silly thing to say really.


That there would have been nods of agreement if it had been a French car?
Most Reliable Cars - Adam {P}
The C-Max is/was unreliable. Therefore, it's got a crap rating. I wouldnt' buy a C-Max because it looks like a box but even if it didn't, I wouldn't get one.

I wouldn't buy any number of Citroens because of how reliable they are. Not how reliable people say they are - but how reliable (or unreliable) they actually are. I wouldn't buy a Merc (as if I could!) because of all the faults you hear occuring on them. I don't have a problem with Citroens - Dad's mate has a C5 VTR and whilst I don't think much of the interiors they give a nice ride.

Of course, he's had to fix all sorts of things. I haven't. That won't dissuade me from looking for a different car but if you've had a reliable one, then you're more likely to buy the same make aren't you? I'm not so loyal to Ford (although I've decided on a next car and it is a Ford!).

I've said it before - you seem to be on a crusade to slate Ford and make sure people know Citroens are hard done by. I could say there's no smoke without fire but I won't. Some Citroens are crap, some Fords are crap, some Mercs are crap.

Buy what you want - Ford can start becoming really unreliable for all I care - if they do, I'll move to some other make. If your Citroen is the most reliable thing since a Swiss made watch, fantastic. I'm happy for you.


Most Reliable Cars - machika
I've said it before - you seem to be on a
crusade to slate Ford and make sure people know Citroens are
hard done by. I could say there's no smoke without fire
but I won't. Some Citroens are crap, some Fords are crap,
some Mercs are crap.


Yes, you have said it before and, once again you have got the wrong end of the stick.

I will repeat again, in the hope you might get the right end of the stick, I do not slate Fords per se. I happen to think they have a (mostly) good range of cars at present, although I do not think they are as wonderful as a lot of people in this forum would have us believe. I had a lot of journeys in a Mondeo, whilst on a recent holiday, and was impressed by the rear seat comfort and ride quality. However, I think the interiors are as dull as ditchwater. Fords have been very popular in this country for over 40 years but they have not always deserved accolades for their products. Some of the Escort and Fiesta ranges were very indifferent at times, yet still topped sales lists in the UK, over many years.

In general, I think French cars get unfair treatment in this forum, which is why I jump to their defence. I have owned/driven a Peugeot or Citroen for 19 years and, whilst I recognise the shortcomings, they were all enjoyable to drive and had wonderful ride quality, which is important to me. The build quality of some was not great, mainly the ZX, but I would say it was not great on a lot of cars at the time, Fords included. I was often told how wonderful Escorts were compared with the 309s I had but I had driven Escorts, so I knew the comparison wasn't favourable in many respects, handling and ride quality being the main areas were it was inferior.
Most Reliable Cars - Timaru
Well, if a Ford is in last place it must be
wrong. If it had been a French car there would
have been lots of nods of agreement.


Hey! Don't shoot the messenger. I have a C5 2.2 HDi Exclusive SE estate that I've had from new and wouldn't swap for any other big load lugger.

Most Reliable Cars - machika
Hey! Don't shoot the messenger.


If you had seen any of my supportive posts for French cars in the past, you would know It was said tongue in cheek. We have a C5 too.

You will also find that criticism of Fords in this forum doesn't go down well, even said tongue in cheek.
Most Reliable Cars - Manatee
Machika: >> Well, if a Ford is in last place it must be wrong.

You know it's wrong! I think if the C-Max was the least reliable car we'd have heard more of it on this board, even allowing for our tribal prejudices ;-)
Most Reliable Cars - machika
Tribal prejudices are a strong motivating factor. There are lots of Brits who are only too willing to knock anything produced by the French, whether there is good reason or not. Far fewer, I think, would knock a Ford product.
Most Reliable Cars - Martin1981
I had a 1991 Peugeot 309 1.9 (non-turbo) diesel as my first car and covered nearly 30k with only a battery, 1 tyre, an exhaust rear box and two driveshaft gaiters needing replacement on top of routine servicing. People took the mickey out of it but was the model of reliability compared with some of my mate's Escorts, Fiestas and Astras and was quicker and more fuel efficient than many small engined petrol cars.
My 1994 306TD on the other hand has been a bit disappointing reliability wise- I've replaced the radiator, PAS rack and due to the dreaded head gasket failure I ended up replacing the engine but I've not let that put me off buying French cars.

Martin
Most Reliable Cars - Number_Cruncher
>>but I've not let that put me off buying French cars

What would it take to put you off?

Number_Cruncher
Most Reliable Cars - machika
>>but I've not let that put me off buying French cars
What would it take to put you off?
Number_Cruncher


Firstly, replacing a radiator on a 12 year old car is hardly unexpected. Secondly, the XUD engine, even in TD form is one of the most reliable diesel engines ever made, so a head gasket failure is hardly a good reason to condemn it.
Most Reliable Cars - type's'
>>But no one has asked the many hundreds, thousands even, of other Jazz drivers for their opinion.
One of my mates, who can literally afford whatever car he wants (currently a brand new Bentley), bought a Jazz for his other half because it seemed to fit the bill exactly for her life style,.
Within three or four months it very quickly made way for a C-class Mercedes...:-)
Among the faults the Jazz exhibited, from brand new, was a battery that flattened itself within a very short time.
I won't bore you with the rest.<<



Just a couple of things here: yes they did ask the many hundreds - thousands even of other Jazz drivers for their opinions - they asked all Jazz owners within the magazine's subscription ?????

I think your rich mate could make himself richer by selling a reliable MB back to them so they can see what they did correct with that one. A sample size of 1 versus 400 ????

And anyway - my mate who is richer than your mate and now drives a Maybach bought his wife a Jazz and it never went wrong.

These threads amaze me because all they do is try and argue with a reputable organisation such as the consumers association that bases its facts on as big a sample size as they can with individual stories.

Whats for me has clearly passed me by - the will to live.

Most Reliable Cars - Buster Cambelt
Surprised to see the V70 up there especially with the very mixed bag of reader reviews on What Car?'s site and some very disaffected punters on the "spy" site.
Most Reliable Cars - JohnX
Quote Tribal prejudices are a strong motivating factor. There are lots of Brits who are only too willing to knock anything produced by the French, whether there is good reason or not. Far fewer, I think, would knock a Ford product. Unquote


I would not be getting involved in the rest of the argument but I think that machikas statement above has got it spot on and its not just with regard to cars.

And Im not a Frenchman either!!
Most Reliable Cars - Aprilia
I like France and the French a lot. In fact given a choice I'd prefer to live there than in the UK. However I won't buy a French car and I think they're unreliable. Anyone who has an automotive engineering background only needs to look closely at a French car to see why they score poorly in reliability surveys. Poor quality wiring and connectors, poor component quality and ill thought-out placing of critical components etc. Compare with a Japanese car and you'll see that they're on a different planet. Jap cars do go wrong sometimes - cars are complicated things - but they tend not to have the 'designed in' faults that plague many other brands.
Most Reliable Cars - machika
It's a bit odd, isn't it, that the French automotive engineers can't see these inherent faults? Or don't they care?
Most Reliable Cars - Pugugly {P}
Maybe Renault will learn this from Nissan - let's hope it doesn't go the other way though.


--
735310 - Total sense in an upside down world.
Most Reliable Cars - Aprilia
It's a bit odd, isn't it, that the French automotive engineers
can't see these inherent faults? Or don't they care?


They are not stupid and I'm sure they can see the inherent problems. It comes down to cost though. Renault are well known in the automotive industry for having just about the lowest component costs of any major VM.
Most Reliable Cars - Pugugly {P}
So there goes Nissan then.
Most Reliable Cars - Aprilia
So there goes Nissan then.


Yes, that is a big worry.
Most Reliable Cars - type's'
I was recently talking to a chap who investigated warranty problems for Nissan dealers when they could not fix a customers car. A sort of Mr Fixit.
He was telling me that Nissan warranty claims have increased sharply since the merger with Renault and subsequent sharing of parts.
Most Reliable Cars - Xileno {P}
I doubt Renault give a damn about what people think, at the end of the day they have a business model that works and you can't say that about many car manufacturers these days.
Most Reliable Cars - machika
So, which business model works best, the Renault one or the Japanese one?
Most Reliable Cars - Xileno {P}
I haven't got any figures to hand but I believe Nissan were losing money hand over fist until Renault got involved. Whether you like Renaults or not is one thing, but you can't deny their business skills and businss model that evidently works.
Most Reliable Cars - machika
But Toyota and Honda are successful all over the world and have a reputation for reliability that Renault do not.
Most Reliable Cars - Xileno {P}
So they can either try and copy those makes - which is probably impossible for any manufacturuer now due to costs - or they can continue as they are making money, unlike Ford, Jaguar, GM etc.....
Most Reliable Cars - type's'
I think the problem with Nissan was the product range rather than the business model.
They certainly seem to be turning that around now though.
All the searches I have just reviewed also suggest that as a result of this Nissan is the biggest contributor to Renaults profits.
This kinda suggest that with the nissan business model and attractive products - it is Nissan that is supporting Renault financially.
Most Reliable Cars - Xileno {P}
But how did Nissan become profitable?
Most Reliable Cars - type's'
By making cars that people wanted to buy and using a robust and efficient manufacturing process.
You only have to look at Sunderland to see how good they are at it.

Granted it took Ghosn's leadership but his main drive was to introduce new models.
He already knew their business model and processes were good (they just had produts no-one wanted) - otherwise he would have not have bought the majority stake.
He is a very clever business man and would not buy a company that was dieing on its feet without knowing he could turn it around easily.

If it needed a transplant of Renault's business model he would have just shut it down and continued to use Renault.
This is the only explanation IMO for Nissan now being the biggest financial contributor to Renault's bottom line.
Most Reliable Cars - Manatee
Is being bailed out by the \french taxpayer still part of Renault's business plan? If so, I agree it's a good one!
Most Reliable Cars - type's'
Good point - the French do have a habit of looking after their own.
I'm not sure if they are still being subsidised and in what form the subsidies take i.e. loans etc.
You only have to read about the Airbus Vs Boeing battle to appreciate how important subsidies are to everyone.
Most Reliable Cars - bell boy
my house has subsidies...................
or was it subsidence?
either way large injections of somebody elses cash are needed
Most Reliable Cars - 10 Jags
Buy Japanese - cant go wrong.

Had 2 CRV's (Opps sorry to swear) one covered 110,000 miles in 3 years and the current one has done 60,000 in 2 years. And nothing has gone wrong - apart from a muppett rear-ending me in a Skoda - but I came off better :)

Toddle Pip
Most Reliable Cars - type's'
Now you are starting a different but familiar thread.
I'm diving for cover now - I've had enough stick from the European Car Owners about my Honda experience to last a life time.
Most Reliable Cars - machika
>> It's a bit odd, isn't it, that the French automotive
engineers
>> can't see these inherent faults? Or don't they care?
>>
They are not stupid and I'm sure they can see the
inherent problems. It comes down to cost though. Renault
are well known in the automotive industry for having just about
the lowest component costs of any major VM.


Ill thought out placing of critical components hasn't got anything to do with cost though, I would have thought.
Most Reliable Cars - Aprilia
Ill thought out placing of critical components hasn't got anything to
do with cost though, I would have thought.


Yes it has. Everything has a cost. Every bump or curve in a piece of metal costs something to put there. Electical component location has significant cost implications. In fact electrical component location is a major hassle in car design. Wiring looms are complex and expensive and not particularly amenable to automated production - they are also expensive (i.e. time consuming) to assemble into the shell. The loom is always 'critical path' in car design (it can only be designed once the location of all connected components has been finalised). One of the reasons that many VM's locate ECU's under the bonnet (rather than in the cabin) is that it is much cheaper.
Most Reliable Cars - Mazda-Man
After quite a long time 'away' I'd forgotten how interesting and informative your posts are Aprilia!
Most Reliable Cars - Mazda-Man
As for the reliability argument - well, all I care about is that my Mazda MPV is almost 3 years old now and so far nothing's gone wrong. Still touching wood though :)
Most Reliable Cars - Honestjohn
Side note to Aprilia: I was at Superchips a couple of weeks ago anf guess where the ECU is located in the current model Astra? Low down behind the valence directly in front of the n/s front wheel.

Non side note: Which survey results that put the Clio and Corsa nos 2 and 2 most reliable superminis directly contradicts all other survey findings, including Which's own last year survey.

HJ
Most Reliable Cars - Aprilia
>>guess where the ECU is located in the
current model Astra? Low down behind the valence directly in front
of the n/s front wheel.


Yes, pretty mad design, isn't it?

The Japs tended to traditionally be quite conservative about ECU placement and would have them all in the cabin (more benign environment - electronics don't like extreme temperature cycles and vibration!) however it costs mightily because of the extra wiring involved and the additional assembly time involved (feeding big fat loom through the firewall etc). Some manufacturers have become very 'adventurous' in their placement of ECU's and there are one or two that are actually mounted on the engine itself.

As regards to reliability surveys I think if you 'average' out all the results (i.e. from Which, JD Power, What Car etc) then a clear pattern emerges. As I've said before though, the German ADAC and DEKRA/TuV surveys (published annually in Germany) must be taken as highly valid - they do not depend on self-reporting and the numbers of vehicles sampled is extremely large.
Most Reliable Cars - P 2501
Extremely interesting posts Aprilia.

Again.
Most Reliable Cars - machika
One of the reasons that many VM's locate ECU's under the bonnet (rather
than in the cabin) is that it is much cheaper.

>>

If the ECU is put in the cabin, where is usually located and which manufacturers currently do this?
Most Reliable Cars - Adam {P}
I've no idea if that's where the ECU is but the port for mine is on the shelf under the steering wheel.
Most Reliable Cars - Aprilia
Legislation requires that the ODB connector is in the cabin within the driver area (there is an exact specification - I can't remember).

A number of VM's still locate the ECU within the passenger compartment - it varies by model etc - most Japanese cars are like this. Typical locations are under a front seat, at the base of the A-post (behind trim), up behind the glove box.
 

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Value my car