The F1 & motorsport thread - Vol 6 - Honestjohn

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Vol 7 *****


Thread originally titled "Touring Cars at Donington" - DD

Surprised no one else started a thread on this.

Didn't anyone else watch the Touring Cars at Donington?

(It was the motor RACING on ITV, after the German GP.)

HJ

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As the title suggests, this thread is for all things Formula One and other general motorsport related stuff.

This is Volume 6.

Usual rules apply. When we get to around 100 posts, the thread will be locked and the next volume will start.

PLEASE NOTE

As with the IHAQ & the Computer threads, When posting a NEW topic, please "Reply to" the first message in this thread, i.e. this one. This keeps each topic in it's own separate segment and stops each new topic from getting mixed up in amongst existing topics. Also please remember to change the subject header.

Touring Cars at Donington - nortones2
Donington may well have been more interesting. F1 put me to sleep: couldn't stay comatose any longer.
Touring Cars at Donington - bell boy
i usually do, but felt the lovelyish day was better spent reading yesterdays paper,paddy burt was specifically good seeing as i stayed at a lot of similar places 2 weeks ago in wales ;(
Its repeated on wednesday at 2.45am if its any good? according to the radio times......
Touring Cars at Donington - Stuartli
Missed the first two races but caught the third - justice for Colin Turkington in the last few hundred yards after all the earlier mayhem...:-)

Started much earlier than in previous weeks.

Annoying as it's so much more enjoyable than F1, which I don't even bother to watch these days.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Touring Cars at Donington - teabelly
I watched most of the races live on MotorsTV. Annoyingly I dropped off during the 3rd race. The other 2 races were good. Jason Plato had a good moan about Matt Neal even though he had rammed up the rear 3 times in the previous race! The motorstv coverage is excellent as they don't have adverts during races and you watch everything live. Much better than the dismal ITV effort.
teabelly
Touring Cars at Donington - Aretas
I recorded this and watched it late last night. Recording stopped halfway down the straight on the last lap. Please tell me how it finished!
Touring Cars at Donington - Aretas
Sorry, should have attached this to Donington. {Now moved, and subject header amended - DD}
Touring Cars at Donington - Chicken Vindaloo
The Italian chap (in the Astra) left the door open at the chicane and Turkington went for the gap. The Astra turned in on him, both cars went onto the grass but Turkington held it to win. Best move of the race IMHO.
Touring Cars at Donington - Aretas
Thanks CV. He deserved to win.
Touring Cars at Donington - Stuartli
>>Best move of the race IMHO.>>

But the Italian's own move to squeeze past Turkington (whilst giving him a bump at the same time) was equally as brilliant.

However, in view of Turkington's complete command of the race and the conditions throughout much of the disrupted race previously I repeat that, in my view, justice was done.
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What's for you won't pass you by
Touring Cars at Donington - Altea Ego
with all 4 wheels off the racetrack, by some considerable margin!

Whilst exciting to watch and cracking television, the standard of driving from most competitors, in each of the three races was nothing short of brainless.

I also wish that Jason Plato and Matt Neal had been on the bus I hit in the Laguna. A pair of thoroughly disagreable bullies who make up for lack of driving skills with underhand and dangerous driving, whilst covered in self pity and blaming anyone else except themselves.

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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Touring Cars at Donington - Honestjohn
Nice guy, that Italian. He accepted Turkington's move as gracefully as his team would allow him. No pushing for a steward's enquiry or anything like that. He's also a brilliant driver. Touring Cars are getting extremely competitive, hence my comment about the "racing".

HJ
Champagne Spraying - Armitage Shanks {p}
What exactly is the point of this rather childish practice? (Age showing!) If it is decent champagne it is an insult to the people whose skill makes it, if it is cheap cava it might as well be poured away but why do it at all? If I carried on like that in public I'd get a punch in the face or be arrested for assault or both. I notice that it is now an advertised highlight of the some these Day Out Driving Experiences - "!0 laps in a Lotus Elise and Champagne Spraying". I can hardly wait. It spoils driver's clothing, or leathers if you are a Moto GP person, and it probably wrecks or at least risks expensive camera gear. Seems pointless and chavish to me - please discuss!

{Moved to the right part of the thread, as per the "PLEASE NOTE" message at the start of this thread - DD}
Champagne Spraying - mike hannon
Yes, AS, you are absolutely right.
Then again, the sort of people who might go on a Day Out Driving Experience probably think it's an important part of motor sport.
I went (with a friend) to one of these events last year - the motors people brought with them were pretty impressive on the whole but the standard of driving wasn't.
I was also surprised to see the stupid champagne spraying that went on at last year's Silverstone festival. Again, the hardware on show was amazing but some of the driving left a lot to be desired.
Champagne Spraying - mfarrow
Let them have their fun! What's a bit of champagne compared to the thousands of litres that's thrown away every year in half-drunk bottles at parties/events/etc.

It was a tradition started by Dan Gurney, who also invented a few aerodynamic devices for use on race cars, including the Gurney flap, which he disguised as a hand saving device so you didn't cut yourself when pushing the cars around. Eureka! I did learn something from my degree ;-)

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Mike Farrow
Webber leaves Williams. Goes to ? - henry k
Mark Webber's management is confident the Australian will continue his Formula One career next season despite being dumped by Williams.

With Fernando Alonso leaving Renault to head to McLaren, Webber, who is managed by Renault team boss Flavio Briatore, could head to the French team next season after his management and Williams could not come to terms on a new deal.

It has been a rocky year for Williams, which is eighth in the constructors' championship after enduring a season riddled by mechanical failure.

A spokeswoman for Webber's management company told BBC Sport that the picture for Webber would become clearer once Michael Schumacher and Kimi Raikkonen make decisions on their futures.

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/52...m
Webber leaves Williams. Goes to ? - cheddar
More chance M Schu will retire if he wins the title this year. In which case the driver market will open out nicely.

On one hand I want to see Schu win his 8th, that is 8, eight, huite, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, 8th!!!!, title though on the otherhand if he retires the sport will be poorer without him.
Webber leaves Williams. Goes to ? - DP
Don't follow F1 any more, but I always wish Webber well. I did a track day at Nigel Mansell Race School at Brands about 10 years ago and he was my instructor for the day (he was racing Formula Ford at the time). Just came across as a thoroughly nice bloke.

Pride of place in my paperwork at home is a report card with his signature on it and an 86% rating for the day!!

Cheers
DP
Webber leaves Williams. Goes to ? - Mike-H
I remember well being driven roung Donington by James Hunt at some fleet drive event back in the mid 80's-proudly have the photo too. He was a really nice bloke, and it makes me a little sad that he ended up driving joe public around in carp cars to earn a crust. Mike
Webber leaves Williams. Goes to ? - henry k
I always wish Webber well......... Just came across as a thoroughly nice bloke.

Frank seems to like him too.
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/52...m
Honda concentrating on..... - henry k
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/photo_gallerie...m
Honda concentrating on..... - richy
Ironic to think that a diesel JCB will could go some 50mph faster than a old 3.0l F1 car!
Honda concentrating on..... - richy
They've already broken 308mph - there still trying to go more than 325mph!

www.jcbdieselmax.com/html/home.php
Alonso loosing his cool x 2 ? - henry k
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/52...m
Alonso loosing his cool x 2 ? - smokie
Am I alone in wondering if there is something fishy about the way F1 works sometimes?

There's been more criticism of boring races recently. Schuie is catching Alonso for the title. Alonso behaves like an absolute idiot with a near-rookie driver when he really must know better, and gets a two second penalty.

This leaves the door open for Schuie to catch right up on points in a drawn out procession (as the track is "difficult to overtake on").

But no-one wants yet another boring procession.

So Schuie makes the mistake a new driver might make and overtakes two or three cars under waved reds.

Thus balancimg the penalties and making for at least some excitement.

Is this not a similar but maybe more subtle alternative to the yellow flags which traditionally come out towards the end of most American motor racing?

I would suggest that it would not be in Ferrari's (or any of the main teams) interest for further criticism and disinterest from the paying public so maybe either one of both of these events may have been deliberate to sustain some interest. Both teams involved are well enough funded to not be too bothered about missing out on a few tens of thou prize money - if they do.

Or am I just naturally suspicious?
Alonso loosing his cool x 2 ? - Dynamic Dave
So Schuie makes the mistake a new driver might make and overtakes two or three cars under waved reds.


And quite ironically one of those drivers he passed just so happened to be Alonso.
Alonso loosing his cool x 2 ? - smokie
Anyone see little Bernie interviewed before the race? He was asked about Alonso and said much the same as me and then he said.."and then Michael went and helped us out too"...

My conspiracy theories are going wild now, in the light of them both not finishing,.... :-)


Oh, and there was a piece in one of the Sundays about the whole series being run for the benefit of just a couple of teams....to do with the new downforce thing that's been banned (cos Ferrari's didn't work as well)


Well done Jensen, after all!!
Alonso loosing his cool x 2 ? - henry k
Now that the Renault mass damper as been ruled illegal Alonso will have another factor to deal with.
Hungary GP - Button in the lead - Robin Reliant
14 laps to go. Keep it on the track, for God's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Robin Reliant, formerly known as Tom Shaw
Hungary GP - Button wins - CJay{P}
After more than 100 GP starts, he finally won..!
Hungary GP - Button wins - Robin Reliant
Nice one Jensen. What a race!
What on Earth was Schumacker doing? points in the bag and he did everything he could to blow it.
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Robin Reliant, formerly known as Tom Shaw
Hungary GP - Button wins - Altea Ego
At long last
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Hungary GP - Button wins - psi
WAHEY way to go jensen!!! schumacker should try a career in the WRC...
Hungary GP - Button wins - Altea Ego
All we need to do now is to grow a decent beard.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Button Wins ! - Dalglish

the best race i have seen for many months.

well done to jenson.

nice to hear the british national anthem after such a long time.

Button Wins ! - Altea Ego
And very very strange to hear the Japanese anthem.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Button Wins ! - JH
I think he must have had some tips from the Stig.
JH
Button Wins ! - Westpig
can't agree more Dalglish........ i love my motorsport, but have been known to doze off during some Grands Prix ..... but not this one...... what a superb race....... shed loads of overtaking, plenty of drama as to 'will it won't it' with the rain..... that fine German fellow getting flustered after trying to cheat again.... Alonso's break-down and the coup de gras.... Button winning......... still on a high now

All it would take for me is to read tomorrow's paper and find ITV are to stop their sodding adverts in the middle of it and i'd be truly happy.
Button Wins ! - Honestjohn
At last, the best looking bloke won.

HJ
Button Wins ! - cheddar
At last, the best looking bloke won.
HJ



Kubica did well though on that measure me doesnt stand a chance ;-).
Button Wins ! - Mike-H
Re the adverts, there should be legislation passed that all sports should be treated equally, and as many ads in the middle of football matches as there are in F1. Can you imagine the cup final? Great race. Great result
Hungary GP - Button wins - mfarrow
What on Earth was Schumacker doing? points in the bag and
he did everything he could to blow it.


I think he was hoping any corner-cutting against DLR in the last few laps would lead to a drive-through which he could take in the next three laps i.e. on the last one, finishing the race in the pit lane. Sounds strangely familiar!

You would think that with the number of races him and Ferrari have run they'd realise that on a dry track inters don't work at all, even if you've got a 20 second lead over Heidfeld. He should have cut his losses, pitted for slicks and finished 4th.

Really chuffed for Jenson though, team and driver worked really well today.

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Mike Farrow
Hungary GP - Button wins - cheddar
Under the circumstances i reckon Schu will take his point gained over Alonso.
Jacques has a word or two to say - henry k
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/52...m
Jacques has a word or two to say - Altea Ego
Me-Ow
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Overtaking stats - Armitage Shanks {p}
I am not great fan of F1 but reading today's ST it is stated that there were 76 'passing moves' during the Hungarian GP 3 weeks ago. I am wondering if this is thought to be anything special? Not being of sure of the numbers of laps or cars involved that is about 2 passes per lap or 5 per car on the grid, and doesn't sound too exciting to a watcher of Moto GP and various Superbike races!
Well Done to Massa - kennybase
Has to be said - Congratulations to Fellipe Massa on todays win. He thoroughly deserved to win and I for one hope that it is the first of many to come :-)
Well Done to Massa - richy
yeah ferrari cocked up by not switching their drivers round at the pitstops, could have do it legaly but they would have got booed. At several times during the closing stages of the race I thought we might have an overtaking manoevre and then Massa letting Micheal by but no. New point system means it's not worth taking the risk of a DNF.
Well Done to Massa - Robin Reliant
I was half expecting Massa to drop back and "brake test" alonso.
--
Robin Reliant, formerly known as Tom Shaw
Well Done to Massa - cheddar
yeah ferrari cocked up by not switching their drivers round at
the pitstops, >>


They couldn't do it, the first pitstop, where Schu had to wait, was under the safety car and no overtaking is allowed under the safety car. Yes Alonso passed Schu in the pits while he was waiting for Massa however if Ferrari had delayed Massa in favour of Schu and in effect engineered a pass they could have been in trouble.
got booed. At several times during the closing stages of the
race I thought we might have an overtaking manoevre and then
Massa letting Micheal by but no. New point system means it's
not worth taking the risk of a DNF.


I thought Michael might go for it because if they had both gone off then he would not have dropped two points, in fact it would have been better for Schu if he had tried a banzi move and taken Alonso out of the race. It would also have put Ferrari on par with Renault in the constructors championship.
Well Done to Massa - Altea Ego
better for Schu if he had tried a banzi move and taken Alonso out of the race.


Had MS tried a Banzai move on Alonso, Alonso would have taken MS out. Alonso has the points in the bank and all he has to do in the diminishing number of races is ensure that MS scores the same (0) or less than him.

Had MS got by in one piece, Massa would have have had "tyre problems" and suddenly MS is on the top step of the podium scoring considerably more points more than Alonso.

MS wasnt going to get past Alonso in one piece believe me. Alonso knows it and so does MS

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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Is F1 a Demolition Derby - Armitage Shanks {p}
Are we seriously talking about professional sportsmen in multi-million £ cars deliberately driving into each other to get a 'result'. Doesn't sound much like a real sport to me!
Is F1 a Demolition Derby - smokie
In the pre-race chat (or pre-qual - can't remember) they said that MS had been severely chastised by many of his fellow drivers for his antics, and was duly humbled. IIRC he is the driver rep on some safety committee - maybe that's where it happened.

Villeneuve also had quite a pop at him in a recent interview (F1 mag?)

Anyway, I would guess that this will reduce his trickery somewhat.


IMO F1 seems to have improved in the last few races...
Is F1 a Demolition Derby - cheddar
Villeneuve also had quite a pop at him in a recent
interview (F1 mag?)


Which only served to discredit JQ IMO, shame he could not back out quietly.
Is F1 a Demolition Derby - Altea Ego
Are we seriously talking about professional sportsmen in multi-million £ cars
deliberately driving into each other to get a 'result'. Doesn't
sound much like a real sport to me!


Yes we are very much so. There has been plenty of precident for it. Any F1 driver with a desire to win, will calculate and factor in disabling an oponents car even at the expense of disabling your own.

IF you know that in trying to get past the bloke in front, he is going to try and rip one of your wheels off, you plan and execute your overtaking accordingly. Dirty tactics go on in ALL top level sport, without exception, its just that in F1 the ultimate dirty tactic is so obvious.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Is F1 a Demolition Derby - Armitage Shanks {p}
"Dirty tactics go on in ALL top level sport, without exception, its just that in F1 the ultimate dirty tactic is so obvious."

Decent sport corrupted by financial greed and participants with VERY big heads!
Is F1 a Demolition Derby - turbo11
Are we seriously talking about professional sportsmen in multi-million £ cars
deliberately driving into each other to get a 'result'. Doesn't
sound much like a real sport to me!


Yes it happens.ie Prost/Senna and Senna/Prost incidents both at suzuka. Both incidents were deliberate.I know as I was there working for them and the respective parties told me so.
Well Done to Massa - cheddar
MS wasnt going to get past Alonso in one piece believe
me. Alonso knows it and so does MS
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >


You are missing the point RF, if they had both gone out then it would be a 10 point gap, both finishing with Alonso 2nd and Schu 3rd means a 12 point gap and an extra 2 points to Renault in the constructors.

Schu must have been tempted to have a go!
Well Done to Massa - Altea Ego
You miss the fact that, had Schumi got past he was on for Top spot on the podium, without doubt.

Schumi 1st, Massa 2nd, and Alonso 3rd, was not an option for Renault
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Well Done to Massa - cheddar
I also missed the fact that had Alonso and Schu gone out Fisi would have been 4th not 6th.
Well Done to Massa - kennybase
I think you would not have seen Ferrari swap drivers had MS got by. They owe Massa for the race in Indy where they engineered MS to win with some clever pit work. The way Massa drove all weekend, he deserved to win. The coverage didn't do him justice. According to friends there, he was amazing out on track yesterday - the way he dealt with back markers, the lines he took, the way he drove as a whole, we just simply amazing! In a way, I hope that if Kimi arrives at Ferrari, then MS does retire and they keep Massa as a driver. He has proved this year that he is no longer the wet behind the ears little boy fro Brazil, but now a fully fledged race winner!

Also, where were the over the top hysterics from James Allen? Last race when Jenson won, anyone would have thought they were involved in some way. So much for unbiased reporting eh!
Turkish GP - JH
Forgetting the politics going on up front, it was a cracking race. It's the first time I've watched a GP in a very long time, I used to be a big fan, I've been to the British GP on several occasions but F1 got seriously boring and I just stopped watching. It also lost any characters / personalities, but yesterday's was really good, maybe because of the scrambling of positions in the start mayhem, but people were overtaking! Amazing. As for MS... zzzzzzz. I just want to see they guy beaten, I'm with JV, not that he's exactly set F1 on fire. Was he in yesterday's race, I don't recall seeing him?
JH
Turkish GP - DP
The onboard shots from Schumacher's car clearly showed how ridiculous the current aero regs are. Whenever he got within 5 metres of the back of Alonso's car, the Ferrari started understeering like a pig.

Great bits of technology, F1 cars, but atrocious racing cars.

Cheers
DP
Turkish GP - Dynamic Dave
I'm with JV, not that he's exactly set F1 on fire. Was he in yesterday's race, I don't recall seeing him?


I thought that JV was still off recovering from his accident in the German GP, but it appears that he's parted company with BMW With Immediate Effect (Monday, 7 August 2006)

www.jacquesvilleneuve.com/news/story_10303.shtml
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/52...m
Turkish GP - JH
Thanks Dave. Just proves the point that I don't watch very often nowadays. But if they keep this up I'll be a regular again.
JH
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - mk124
After reading the thread about carbon quotas I began to think........

New technology should be given susidies and I have not made up my mind about cars such as the Toyota prius. The car may be environmentally unsound now, but will it's mass production enable the new technology embeded in the design to be used better in the future?
A good example is F1 racing. I would conceed in general motorsport just uses up the worlds resources. The vast majority of low tech motorsport does this, that is motorsport that does not add to the pool of knowledge. However F1 I would argue may be good for the evironment. The inovations that F1 has given us have alowed us to make our cars safer, lighter and more fuel efficent, boosting societies income. Readers may think this has not happened since fuel economy is flat and cars are heaver. However without the inovations fuel economy would decline and cars would be much heaver than they are today and cars would not have safety systems like traction control etc.(I feel it's a shame F1 banned these kind of inovations)

Veiwed in this light F1 should recieve public funding to give incentives for the teams to inovate. For example F1 regulations could be changed so that the teams would only have a certain amount of fuel to get them through over the weekend. This would improve inovations in fuel efficency (probably given scant regard up untill now, only being a factor for reducing pit stops and wieght on board).

Does F1 or any other inovative motorsport have green credentals?
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - barchettaman
Soapbox racing at Goodwood.
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - yorkiebar
i love motor sport but no way can I claim it to be environmentally friendly.

Innovation of vehicles comes forward with or without F1 involvement. F1 may just make it quicker (debateable?)

Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - rjr
I vaguely recall that F1 adopted a carbon offset programme several years ago. The scheme covers emissions from racing, testing and transportation (including flights).
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - Lud
Yes it is.

Only at motor sport venues do you catch the scent of burning Castrol R. The breath of life.
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - Group B
Does F1 or any other inovative motorsport have green credentals?


AFAIK this years Indy 500 cars used fuel that was 90% methanol, 10% ethanol produced from corn. The 2007 Indycar series will use 100% ethanol (bioethanol) fuel: snipurl.com/w03z .

I read in a magazine an interview with FIA president Max Mosley. Haven't got it with me but recall it saying he wants F1 to go green, saying engines that rev. to 20000rpm are irrelevant to modern motoring. He said the limitation should be on fuel capacity but give free rein on other aspects of engine design, therefore economy could become a much more important factor for engine designers. Some manufacturers were not happy with this. Found this: snipurl.com/w03x . Energy storage "power boost" button could make F1 a bit more interesting.
I can't see that a weekend of F1 racing makes any difference to national CO2 output from vehicles, but they want to be seen as setting an example. I dont mind motorsport going green as long as the cars stay noisy and very fast, and keep that magical smell as Lud says.
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - DP
Regardless of the emissions from the cars, the transportation requirements alone of F1 are responsible for some serious carbon emissions. Just carting the teams, cars, tools, equipment and all the other paraphernalia around the world every couple of weeks sees to that.

I suspect the emissions during the race are nigh on irrelevant in comparison.

Cheers
DP
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - mjm
No, F1 isn?t environmentally friendly. Neither is football, rugby, rallying, athletics etc. The amount of fuel used by the teams, spectators etc must be vast. Even watching at home uses electrical power.

Personally I want F1 to be less restricted than it is with engine specification. I would prefer to see a capacity limit of something like 3 Ltrs, normal (non-turbo) aspiration, and that?s it. If Renault/BMW/Ferrari/Honda or whoever want to make a 10/12/24 cylinder which revs to 20/25/30k then fine.
F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of open wheel racing, not an environmental showcase.
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - Stuartli
A certain well known motoring magazine once published a chart of the most polluting methods of transport.

I remember clearly that one 747 (Jumbo) jet flight from the UK to Australia created about the same pollution as a full two years of F1 practicing and racing sessions.

Ships were another major source of pollution I recall.

Unfortunately, however, SWMBO threw out the particular issue along with others (really got a flea in her ear at the time), although I have mentioned it in more detail in previous BR postings.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - rjr
I mentioned a carbon offset scheme earlier in the thread and I have managed to find a passing reference to it here:

www.fia.com/automotive/issue3/news/article3.html

In 1995 the FIA launched a carbon offset scheme of reforestation in Mexico in order to offset pollution from the F1 Championship and the WRC.
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - Adam {P}
Does it matter if it is environmentally friendly?

What good is saving the planet if we can't enjoy living?
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - Lud
So that our children and grandchildren can continue to not enjoy living, of course. We don't want them put out of their misery do we?
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - Adam {P}
Of course Lud! How could I have been so blind?
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - Round The Bend
F1 is environmentally friendly. Problem is the pollution caused by all of the cars queuing up to get to the track.
_______
IanS
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - turbo11
Having spent most of my working life in motorsport,I reckon I have breathed in more carbon and carciogenic race fuels than my car has emitted(thats why I don't expect to collect my pension).As stated before,more fuel is used in freighting the F1 circus around the world than is ever burnt on the race track.Thats not to say that motorsport cannot do its bit, but while manufacturers continually produce fuel guzzling 3,4,5 or 600 plus bhp performance road cars(I am amazed they are still allowed too) then I cant see it happening.
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - smokie
Dunno if diesel is more friendly than F1 fuel but tis year's Le Mans winner was a diesel Audi. And next year there will be more diesel cars running (Peugeot IIRC)
Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - Quinny100
There are 4 cars now running on Bio-Ethanol in the British Touring Car Championship, and rumours of several more entering the series next year. 3 of those cars have made the switch mid season with very little modification - apparently all thats required is new injectors and the engine remapping, and it gives slightly better performance. EEMS - Energy Efficient Motorsport has been funded by the Government to the tune of £16m to promote greener motorsport, and I suspect there is a financial incentive to the BTCC teams who use green fuels.

Is F1 Environmentaly friendly? - Robin Reliant
One of the least environmentally friendly sports is cycle racing. The Tour de France covers 2300 miles at an average speed of 25mph. Take the massive publicity caravan that proceeds the race, 40 support vehicles for the 20 teams, scores of press cars that follow the race, official cars, and about fifty motorcycles with police outriders, cameramen, race referees etc, all operating at hugely inefficient engine speeds for three weeks then it makes the average GP look like a Green Party convention.
--
Robin Reliant, formerly known as Tom Shaw
Is F1 friendly? - - henry k
Alonso is not a happy bunny.
www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=37322
Marc Webber adds his bit
www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=37302

Flavio has had a few words to say
www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=37324

It should all add flavour ( the obvious word I originally used got zapped with *** in the middle) to the rest of the season.

Is F1 friendly? - - Altea Ego
I am not suprised he is not happy. I saw the lap yesterday, there was no blocking going on.

Instead there has been a great deal of official cheating going on. This and making the damping device illegal means that the F1 have conspired to cheat Schumacher to his last tittle.

If he wins the title it will be by deception and theft.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Is F1 friendly? - - hxj

So why does Webber say that Massa lost time because of Alonso's activities if its not true ....

Is F1 friendly? - - Altea Ego
webber wasnt watching it.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Is F1 friendly? - - Dynamic Dave
According to the pit walk interview Martin Brundle had with Max Mosley, MM said that Alonso was on his outlap and therefore impeeded Massa. Had Alonso been on a hotlap, everything would have been ok. The fact that Massa gained an advantage by using Alonso's slipstream was of course overlooked.

Unless the pettiness of some of the drivers & teams whinging to the stewards over the slightest *infringments* is brought under control, the teams may as well not bother racing at all as the winner could be decided right at the start of the race.
Is F1 friendly? - - cheddar
According to the pit walk interview Martin Brundle had with Max
Mosley, MM said that Alonso was on his outlap and therefore
impeeded Massa. >>


MM clearly said that the telemetry from both cars showed that Massa was disadvantaged.


>>Had Alonso been on a hotlap, everything would have
been ok. >>


The rules state that drivers on an out or in lap should not impede another driver on a hot lap, when both are on a hot lap they have equal rights to the track.


>>The fact that Massa gained an advantage by using
Alonso's slipstream was of course overlooked.

>>

Conjecture.

Is F1 friendly? - - cheddar
I am not suprised he is not happy. I saw the
lap yesterday, there was no blocking going on.
Instead there has been a great deal of official cheating going
on. This and making the damping device illegal means that
the F1 have conspired to cheat Schumacher to his last tittle.
If he wins the title it will be by deception and
theft.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >



Tosh! Utter balderdash, not worth commenting on.
Is F1 friendly? - - Altea Ego
Deception and theft I tell you

If Schumacher wins the title this year he will be forever known as the man who lied and cheated his way to the top.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Is F1 friendly? - - lordy
Yep TVM. He was particularly helped by the penalties he received in qualifying at Monaco and Hungary. The two circuits where the biggest race advantage can be gained from.....errr......qualifying well.




--
let me be the last to let you down....
Is F1 friendly? - - Dynamic Dave
he will be forever known as the man who lied and cheated his way to the top.


The incidents involving Damon Hill & Jacques Villeneuve spring to mind there.
Is F1 friendly? - - lordy
The issue is not whether he is guilty of sharp practices, which he obviously is, but whether or not the FIA are, this year, 'helping' him along, or turning a blind eye to his sharp practices.

Which they're not.
--
let me be the last to let you down....
Is F1 friendly? - - Altea Ego
The issue is that the FIA, is now too heavily influenced by Ferrari. Schumachers penalites this year have been imposed because they are too blantant to be ignored. It seems that thepolotics in the sport are now at work to swing things the other way round.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Is F1 friendly? - - lordy
So why wasn't Alonso penalised for cutting the chicane and holding on to his position then?




--
let me be the last to let you down....
Is F1 friendly? - - Altea Ego
Because he had completed the overtaking prior to cutting the corner of the chicane
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Is F1 friendly? - - cheddar
The need to cut the chicane was a result of an over ambitious overtaking manouver by Alonso, he should have been penalised though it seems that the FIA wanted to avoid any further controversy, this together with the fact that he impeded.Massa and only went back five places on the grid means he was actually treated very leniently at Monza. The opposite of the carp that Flav and RF are spouting.
Is F1 friendly? - - Dalglish
" opposite of the carp that ......"

>>

what is it with people using this new word "carp". crap is crap. and in my view that is what cheesy is spouting.

i gree with tvm, flavio, plus virtually every other independent observers bar none (hence cheddar, ferrari and the monza stewards are excluded).

alonso has been treated very unfairly in the last few races to the benefit of ferrari.
the chicane incident was looked at carefully by the stewards who found that alonso had not gained any advantage over the car he had overtaken.

remember that apart from schumi's questinable tactics over the years, he is one driver whose teammate has never been allowed to do anything other than help schumi to gain advantage. ferrari have always used their second driver as shotgun rider for schumi. schumi has got his championships with help from his "partner".

he has been charged by the fia and proven to be a cheat, liar, and has had to resort to force his teammates to play second fiddle even when they were winning.

Is F1 friendly? - - cheddar
Yet more tosh Dalglish, balderdash, again not worth commenting on but to say that the word 'carp' is I guess designed to fool the sware filiter which strangely doesnt mind 'crap' though it wont let you type 'f a r t h i n g' without the spaces, what a strange world we live in!

Your conspiracy theory cohort TVM is a regular user of the word 'carp', I may actually have picked it up from him, I must say I prefer it, it means the same though is some how a nicer word.

Oh and by the way my user name is geographical and not culinary.
Is F1 friendly? - - Altea Ego
"Your conspiracy theory"

You are joking are you not ched me old mate? you know as well as I do, (despite our ahem "respective loyalties") that F1 runs on and is managed by conspiracy on all sides. No theory about it. In truth the skulduggery and conspiracy is one of its appealing factors.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Is F1 friendly? - - quizman
I have been following motor racing for a long time. My early favorite was Stirling Moss, a great chap.

Michael Schumacher is the best driver ever, please stop the British disease of knocking anyone who is successfull. He joined Benetton and took them from nowhere to the top. He then joined Ferrari who had done nothing for years, look what he has done since. As for the co-drivers well what has Irvine, Barrichello, Brundle or any of the others ever done on their own.

I know he is a German, I wish we had a driver half as good, it makes me laugh when I read that Coulthard is critical of Schumacher, words like shoelaces come to mind.

Stop nitpicking, we are privilaged to have seen such a great superstar. We will never see his like again.

Is F1 friendly? - Dalglish
more tosh ... balderdash .... not worth commenting on

>>

cheesy: it seems that whenever you say that, you then follow up with more unreasoned thoughts. you do know that there is a psychological explanation for replies in a debate are prefixed by these type of words " more tosh ... balderdash .... not worth commenting on "

Is F1 friendly? - cheddar
more tosh ... balderdash .... not worth commenting on

>>
cheesy: it seems that whenever you say that, you then follow
up with more unreasoned thoughts. >>


No, my follow up commented on the word 'carp' not the tosh you wrote about F1.

you do know that there
is a psychological explanation for replies in a debate are prefixed
by these type of words " more tosh ...
balderdash .... not worth commenting on "


It's called vehermently disagreeing, being so at odds with the view expressed that one considers it irrelevant to comment, however I can do it by way of banter with TVM, why not with you Kenny D?
Is F1 friendly? - - Dynamic Dave
what is it with people using this new word "carp".


New? People on this forum have been using it for ages as a substitute for the word crap. Thought someone like you with your photographic memory would have known that ?

DD.
Is F1 friendly? - - lordy
If he had succesfully completed the manoeuvre, why did he need to cut the chicane?

He could not succesfully hold his position without cutting the chicane, had he have tried to take the corner he would have spun.

He was let off, without a doubt.

May I remind you that before Schumacher's title in 2000, it was twenty one years previous that a Ferrari won the world title. No harm was done to Ferrari's image, and no harm was done to F1. Why then, after winning the championship, and creating a dominant team, would the FIA feel the need to help Ferrari, and more importantly, Why?


--
let me be the last to let you down....
Is F1 friendly? - - mjm
If Alonso had not lost concentration during the fuel burn off period of qualifying he would not have had to weave through the run off area and puncture his tyre.
If he hadn't punctured his tyre, he would not have damaged his aerodynamics.
If he hadn't damaged his aerodynamics he would not have impeded Massa.
If he had't impeded Massa he would not have been penalised.
If he hadn't been penalised he wouldn't have turned the engine up for so long.
If he hadn't turned the engine up for so long, it may have held together.
If it had held together he would have scored some points.


And to throw bits of hot broken car at Massa was just spitefull!
Is F1 friendly? - - Altea Ego
And to throw bits of hot broken car at Massa was just spitefull!


Lots of it too. Enough to build a clio engine
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Is F1 friendly? - - cheddar
If >>


Well said.
Is F1 friendly? - cheddar
The issue is that the FIA, is now too heavily influenced
by Ferrari. Schumachers penalites this year have been imposed because they
are too blantant to be ignored. >>


Disagree, the penalty imposed at Monaco was harsh relative to Alonso penalty yesterday particularly concerning that fact the FA say that Alonso clearly blocked Massa though there is at the best doubt over the indcident at Monaco.

Also remeber Schu has been penalised in other respects this season, the questionable use of the safety car after Luizzi's spin at the last race left Schu queing behind Massa in the pits which cost him at least second place so he lost 2 points to Alonso rather than gained 2.

He is not a cheat, he is however ruthless and I admire him for that, that ruthlessness has been a key part of his armory, has really helped him acheive what he has acheived often over coming great adversity and the authorities apparently against him (the contrary of what TVM says is happening today) such as the disqualifications in '94 for such minimal indiscressions.

I dont agree with G B Shaw's politics however I have long lived by his quote.......

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

........ Schumacher is a great exponent of that philosophy.

Is F1 friendly? - turbo11
I do agree with some of what has been said .There is no doubt that Alonso's penalty was strange to say the least.
There have been incidents where Ferrari have got away with rule "bending" that other teams certainly would not have.I have been on the receiving end of some of ferrari's antics and from me all they will get is contempt. As for Mr Schumacher, I am not a fan but I do respect the fact that he always gives 110% no matter where he is in the race.There is nothing worse than seeing your driver give up the race just because he is not going to win.
 

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