And if the sensor loop in the road doesn't trigger with a bike? I understand that it is even illegal to wheel your bike across the junction - you have to actually carry it!
BIG
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Without knowing all the facts is hard to judge. The fact that the cyclist is making such a song and dance about being fined for going through a red light does make me wonder what his tone would have been like with the officer who stopeed him.
Personally whilst believing more people should be encouraged to cycle, I get fed up with cyclists flouting the law as if they are exempt (although I do admit to using pavements on busy roads when I have my daughter in the child seat- and there are no cycle lanes).
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what his tone would have been like
Hence my post about reading between the lines of the Police Spokesman's response.
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When cycling I obey the law and Highway Code at least as strictly as when driving my car. I have lost count of the times I have been waiting at a red light on a cycle and been ridiculed and abused with language the mods would not like by passing lycra louts.
Zebra
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I have to go with the Artful Dodger on this one. A warning and a ticking off would have sufficed instead of bringing the full weight of the law on to this person.
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If you read the Police comments a warning seems to have been on the menu of options. It seems there may have been a reason why this didn't happen.
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He's a muppet. Acts like one, talks like one and complains like one.
100% police correct.
madf
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Brill - a singularly British insult, never fails to amuse me.
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But did he give the copper a mouthful as PU suggests? If so he was asking for it.
Cyclists think they are saints but only some actually are. Bumping around avoiding carp drivers and breathing diesel isn't all that good for the temper. I bet he deserved it (although you'd have to know the copper who stopped him to be sure).
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I'm a club cyclist and have been since my early teens, give or take a few "retirments and comebacks". Cyclists who ignore red lights make me cringe with embarrassment when I am cycling, and make me fume when I am in the car. I am sorry to say there is so much blatant flouting of the rules of the road by cyclists that it is about time the police cracked down on it.
Time of day is no excuse. Red lights do not mean stop unless the road is clear, they mean stop and that is it. No discretion allowed, and for a very good reason. The guy in this tale was an arrogant prat and deserved what he got. I doubt if his driving is governed by different values either, just by what he thinks he can get away with.
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I agree with Tom. What makes a bike any different to a car when it comes to obeying red lights?
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Nothing.
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"Nothing"
Which is why I have no sympathy. He should stop at a red light no matter what the time. Did he know that he was "the only traffic on the road"? Could have got himself killed. Hope he learns from it. Should have paid up and got on with his life.
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Phil
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I live in an area with many young hooligan cyclists. The way they ride on and off the pavement, hurtling into major roads etc. looks very alarming, but their reactions are quick and they usually know what they're doing. The worst thing they do is to ride fast and silently on the pavement, going close to pedestrians. A slight lurch in the wrong direction by a pedestrian could lead to an accident.
One cycling towards me up the road one day suddenly converted himself into a wheeled pedestrian and tried to swerve across me on the zebra crossing we were approaching from different directions. I didn't even slow down, to my wife's great alarm. As I knew he would, the yobbo stopped before going under the car and looked at me indignantly as we passed.
Might be a good idea to carry an umbrella or walking stick to shove through some of these people's spokes.
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Get the opposite where I live- keep finding pedestrians in the cycle lanes- there's a lane for bikes, one for pedestrians. To move from one to the other means crossing a single unbroken white line, which is fairly slippy on my bike (especially with 3 year old on the back).
Is really scary watching how some people drive round the estate where I live. Whilst on my bike recently saw 4 lads in a Laguna come flying down a 30mph road at about 60-70. The road itself is very uneven (will be redone once estate is finished- Moor lane for anyone who knows Weston) with speed humps. Really don't know how they kept control, and drove passed a heavily overgrown concealed entrance to a play area full of children.
Am just grateful I was alert as was about to cross the road, saw them from a distance, was about to go when realised how fast they were going.
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I also agree with Tom, as a fellow 'proper' cyclist. Everyone should obey the highway code and road traffic laws. Following the 'rules' also means that if involved in an accident, you will minimise contributory negligence claims against yourself.
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Unless there is a formal dispensation, e.g. you CAN turn left at a red, unless there are other users already crossing, every one should obey the rules. However, there appear to be quite a few informal dispensations, and the police don't really cope with the widespread flouting of traffic rules. Nor do they try, except sporadicaly and therefore arbitrarily. Yobs rule in the absence of a supported, stricter aproach, whether yobbo peds, yobbo cyclists or the much more dangerous motorised versions.
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Quite right, Tom. I have cycled an awful lot of miles, and I'm afraid that a lot of cyclists which embarrass me, and I think it's getting worse.
I hope that this twit's trip to court is the first of many of these daft cyclists getting hauled up.
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"I understand that it is even illegal to wheel your bike across the junction - you have to actually carry it!"
That's an urban myth. If you are walking with a bike, you're a pedestrian. Case a few years ago where a driver hit someone on a bike on a pedestrian crossing. Witnesses testified that the girl had her feet on the floor, so she was classed as a pedestrian, hence had right of way.
Telegraph Motoring counted how many fatalities on bikes last year (180 or so, IIRC). They then went out into High Holborn and timed how long it took for that many unlit bikes to pass them one evening. It was WELL under an hour. I'll have more sympathy for people hurt on bikes once they start obeying the law.
Every tried telling a cyclist they are in the wrong? This very night, on my way home, I came to a left turn (from a very busy road into a pretty busy side road. Round the corner, on the wrong side of the road, came three bikes. I tooted (they were looking at each other, not where they were going), they all shouted "go away - DD"
V
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Thing that gets me is that he protests loudly about the "waste of public money", when he himself is the cause of said waste, it having been easily avoided by him putting his hands up, accepting he done a bad ting and paying the fine.
I too wonder if his attitude to the BiB influenced their decision to book him.
Instead of re-running that really quite distressing advert with the little girl yet again (everyone who was going to get the message from that one must have done by now), why don't the Think! brigade come up with a couple aimed at cyclists and laying out the consequences of red-light jumping, riding the wrong way up one-way streets etc etc?
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But: in Farringdon Road a few years ago, southbound stop-start traffic, a cycle messenger hurtling down the gutter, lady in navy blue Polo tries to turn left into a slip lane at the wrong moment deflecting him over a high kerb straight towards a pub plateglass window... he just managed to miss the pub and go past it down the pavement, big crash as he hit the Rombout's Coffee sign.... Moment or two later he came back with seriously bent bike, slumped in a seat outside the pub and got on his mobile.
I say fifty-fifty. Can't remember whether te lady stopped or not.
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A police spokesman said officers have to respond if they see an offence being committed in front of them.
If only that were true. They would only have to go down any Main streets of most towns and cities late at night and find countless cases of breaches of the peace by yobs but they either keep away or simply give a verbal warning.
This man would presumably have been a honest man on his way to work and would understandably been aggrieved with the severity he was dealt with.
The fine was harsh for a working man. We can all be righteous when an offence is committed like this one and quote the law must be upheld and so forth but not if it was ourself. We have all no doubt made a mistake inadvertently or otherwise and got away with it.
My opinion is still that he should have been given a warning and don't do it again or else lecture.
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The cyclist sounded like he was a Norbert to me & had it coming to him
He should have been fined much more heavily for wasting police / court time and geberally for being a PITA.
& then had his bike crushed as an example to every other moron cyclist who doesn't think that the laws of the land don't apply to him/her.
MTC
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& then had his bike crushed as an example to every other moron cyclist who doesn't think that the laws of the land don't apply to him/her.
Would you advocate the same punishment for the moron car drivers who break the speed limits?
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Absolutely not.
For those people I would tell them to drive carefully (as they most likely were in the first place) and avoid hitting anybody.
Or I could tell them to ride a bike the wrong way on a one way street whilst wearing dark clothes and no lights before riding across a pavement with no regard whatsoever for any other road user ----- whopps my mistake, that method must already be being used up and down th country.
I suspect that you may disagree with me on this.))))
MTC
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Sounds familiar to me: it describes, other than the lights, many car drivers.
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Car drivers choose to travel in a safer mode of transport - I used to cycle alot and without a helmet 15 years ago - it was my choice to take the risk and I had a few knocks. Its not hard to cycle properly.
On the subject of people being thrown from bikes, I saw a young lad thrown to his death from a motorbike at about 85mph on a 60mph road, then had to testify in coroners court infront of his grieving family about how reckless he had been riding when he shot past me.
I still believe that he got what he deserved - he took a risk and it didnt pay off, much like these cyclists that have been mentioned. Stupid is a stupid does, right?
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Stun, I think you have about three contradictions there.....And to say he got what he deserved beggars belief in my opinion. Just hope it never happens to one of your own. Would you still use that phrase?.
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I cycle when i can and drive for work when needed and feel that it makes you a much better driver
I have as much right to be on the road but expected to drive 1 inch from the curb.
Also wing mirrors are there for looking but there is a blind spot too.
I find it a very healthy way to live except for the people who turn left infront of me (knocked off 4 times)
I understand the danger but does mean it excuses FOOLS knocking me off.
I think that more detail is needed on the case as if the red is on a filter going onto a main road and there is no crossing of traffic and he slowed to look is it really that bad - I do the same at this sort of time and feel it is similar to the 40 in a 30 where its a long stright road (and done at correct stopping distance)
Some car drivers HATE cyclists just cos they slow them down and my main concern is one of these people getting that little bit close and clipping me into a wall another car etc.
Just have a little perstective and realise that you could KILL someone - is it worth 2 minutes
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I think that more detail is needed on the case as if the red is on a filter going onto a main road and there is no crossing of traffic and he slowed to look is it really that bad - I do the same at this sort of time and feel it is similar to the 40 in a 30 where its a long stright road (and done at correct stopping distance)
Let's be clear on this.
Red means STOP.
It does not mean stop if you are not in a hurry.
It does not mean have a look and if it is clear keep going.
It does not mean that because you are on a bike you have the moral high ground so you can make your own rules and ignore traffic lights.
It means STOP.
If you do jump a red light and get caught then you are hardly likely to get any sympathy when you have to go through the due process. Unfortunately those of us who do cycle have to put up with contempt and disrespect from other road users because a substantial number of fellow cyclists ride in a manner which would cause absolute carnage if it were the norm among car drivers.
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If he was crossing the red light in an observant, safe and controlled manner then he would have seen the copper.
Sounds like a gobby prat to whom the world's laws don't apply careering around in typical disregard for those about him as seen in the careless and inconsiderate cyclist who are, fortunately, as yet still a minority albeit significant.
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As usual Mark expresses the thoughts that I am far too diplomatic to post !
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Mark expresses the thoughts that I am far too diplomatic to post
Look on it as a service.
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Look on it as a service.
can we subscribe ?
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Go on, get out of the car...
www.mikes-walks.co.uk
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>>can we subscribe ?
No need, I give freely.
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wemyss, no point saying there is a contradiction if you dont point it out, not very constructive, besides, there is never just black and white, just shades of grey.
Im sorry, but if someone does something dangerous that they know could quite likely kill them and possible other road users, I have no sympathy with that individual. That lad I saw die on his bike CHOSE to ride like he did and paid the price.
I have sympathy with his family for sure, although since he was out riding with his father, perhaps his father should have led a better example as he also was riding very fast and obviously didnt discourage his son from riding like that since he was also doing the same.
It wont happen to one of my own. Nobody in my family rides bikes. However, having said that, my father smokes and his father died of lung cancer. Ive told my father that he would get no sympathy from me if he develops any smoking related illnesses as he knows what he is doing is stupid, but carries on regardless, just like the lad that died. Id be sad if it happens, but not sympathetic.
Anyone who risks their life and others for the sake of a thrill or just to see how far they can push their luck, deserves all that comes to them, especially in a dangerous enviroment like on the road.
I once came across an accident where a motorbike had been going so fast, it had gone 4 feet off the ground and glanced off a people carrier coming the other way - is that fair for the driver of the people carrier to have ever been out in that position by the motorcyclist? I dont think so. Im just glad that the only person who was hurt in the first accident, was the idiot who caused it.
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What relevance is it if he speeds? Does that make your illegal act (going through a red light) less illegal?
V
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no but it shows that some people look outwards but not inwards
I am just trying to say that if the cyclist is riding straight across a dual carriageway road with his eyes closed it is abit different to turning left onto a slip road slowly while checking
Alot like doing 40 infornt of a school at 3pm with cars on both sides or doing 40 on a 30 at 5am on a long wide straight road
In law a red is stop like 30 is the limit but i live in a world of greys and take the chances that come with that.
Just feel that some people on here would string up anybody who does anything they dont like but will continue to - hog the overtaking lane - not indicate - not understand how to negotiate a roundabout - have no respect on the road for somebody on a bicycle
Perspective is alli ask for
I am a sinner but you probably are too?
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If I get caught speeding I get three points on my licence, minimum. If I continue to break the limit I will get a ban from driving, and if I start shouting about how unfair it all is I will get laughed at and told to grow up.
Which is what this guy should do. He got caught and he has no room for complaint.
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"I am a sinner but you probably are too?"
Probably we all are, at some time or other. The law is the law and if you get away with breaking it you are lucky; if you are caught you have no cause for complaint and should accept the consquences. For whatever reasons, cyclists are not that popular, and this snivelling git, who objects to being punished for breaking the law, is not helping his position or that of any other cyclist.
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"In law a red is stop"
Good, we're agreed. If only cyclists would understand that. Then I'd stand just a little less chance of killing one when I'm going through a green light and having to live with it for the rest of my life.
V
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>>when I'm going through a green light and having to live with it for the rest of my life.
Vin, vin. You just need to get over it. Lots of erstwhile teenage revolutionaries grow up and eventually start going through green lights. Don't let it get to you so.
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Quote from BBC website article - "It was 5.55am, I was surprised when the police stopped me, I was the only traffic on the road".
Clearly he wasn't the only traffic on the road, what about the police vehicle? That is assuming the policeman wasn't on foot.
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Having been on this forum from when it started I mst have read hundreds of threads where the poster thinks he has been a victim of the heavy hand of the law and objects to it.
Usually sympathy and what I would do advice is plentiful.
Now its a poor old lad going to work on his bike and some of you want to literally hang him high.
He isnt asking for sympathy he is just stating his point of view.
I get the distinct anti-cycling feeling here...
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No - I think it is 'against' people who are caught, clearly breaking the law, correctly convicted and don't like it. I know there are degrees of crime - dropping litter isn't as bad as killing your granny but in the end breaking the law is a crime. If you don't want to get caught don't do it! And if you do get caught ,bleating about it isn't going to get you any sympathy.
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"I get the distinct anti-cycling feeling here..."
No, not at all. I've just read through this thread and what stands out - most refreshingly - is that responsible cyclists - such as those who have posted above - agree that this cyclist, described by Mark with his usual accuracy, was in the wrong.
The anti-cycling feeling comes from irresponsible cyclists - a minority - being so irritating, and sanctimonious with it. We all have our rights - motorists, cyclists and pedestrians - but we also have our responsibilities. I don't want to start a rant, but there are too many young people who do nothing but watch TV and don't get out and do things, who know all about their rights but nothing about responsibilities. All input, no output.
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Agreed Avant: as a sometime cyclist, there is no dispensation from the law on signals etc just because you cycle. Those who flout the rules, powered or not, need to be restrained. The problem is that the enforcers have become lazy and complacent, like the current Govt. A spell of fierce, unapologetic enforcement is what is needed, but it also needs citizens, not just the blind, inert, lumpen proletariat we seem to be at present. Its always someone elses job......
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"some of you want to literally hang him high"
literally?
V
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