Hello, i was wondering whether anyone could help? i have a 1998 ford focus 1.8 (petrol) and it is acting very bizarrely..... 1) Pre-ignition it has engine noises (pinking) but it starts fine. 2) when the engine is ticking over it idles erratically, even when warmed up. 3) engine is mis-firing throughout the driving speed range, except possibly at high speeds (over about 50mph) and lastly 4) engine hesitates on acceleration.
However it doesn't lack power on acceleration or doesn't stall
has anyone else had a similar problem?
it has been suggested that it might be : clutch (i hope not!!) spark plugs, ignition timing, carburettor problems, distributor or ignition component?
Cheers
Natalie
(someone who resents paying stupid money for diagnostic testing!!)
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Natalie
As someone who charges "stupid money for diagnostic testing" I'll let the insult slide and tell you what it's not. It's not the clutch; it could be the plugs if they're old; the timing can't be adjusted, so ignore that and you don't have either a carb or a distributor.
Focii don't suffer from much; but they have been known to eat the odd ignition coilpack and set of HT leads. If you don't want to get it diagnosed properly first; try replacing those two things. No guarantees that way though.
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Apologies mr screwloose, i didn't mean to insult diagnostic testing, it is actually a fantastic tool !!
thanks for your advice though, i have looked at its previous service history and apparently the coilpack was replaced last september, is it possible that it has gone again?
Nat
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Nat
Unlikely; but it's just possible; was that a genuine Ford coilpack? The fact that it was fitted at all suggests that there may be an underlying unsolved problem here. Were the HT leads [may also be called spark plug/high tension leads or cables] replaced at the same time? Is there any water lying in the spark-plug holes?
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Hi,
Don't know whether the 1.8 engine you have is similar to that which was in my daughter's 1.6 16v Escort which had similar symptoms to your car. Baffled me entirely but our local garage found that a core plug was beginning to fail in the cylinder head with the result that one of the spark plugs was receiving a very fine water mist spray with the engine running. Of course, with the engine switched off while I was looking for the problem the water mist wasn't there. My garage said I'd have never have found it on my own.
Good luck with sorting out your car.
Ron
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>>(someone who resents paying stupid money for diagnostic testing!!)
So, how would you prefer to have faults on your car found? Guesswork? Should you just fit the parts suggested by the chap who is always at the bar and sounds knowledgable down at the pub? Poke and hope?
I shudder to think of the money that people waste on needless parts, particularly ECUs which for most cars fail only very rarely. Many electrical faults turn out to be only a chafed wire, or a corroded terminal, and once found, can be fixed cheaply.
In general, getting someone who is awake to do diagnosis is the cheapest way to fix faults on a car in the long run. In many cases, this means not going to the dealer, but finding a good independent who knows what he is doing.
Having said all that, I think Screwloose is pointing you in the right direction (although after the taunt, I can't think why he didn't just say you needed a new ECU!) - I too would check the plug leads and plugs very carefully.
Number_Cruncher
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Hi, i'm really sorry (wish i had never written that comment) i only really meant the prices that main stream garages charge, i'm sure independant garages are much more reasonable. And like i said in my second message, i actually think diagnostic machines are amazing, i have just been taken advantage of in the past whereby a Vauxhall garage refused to listen to my symtems and said it would have to go on the diagnostic machine, then they charged me £80 for the diagnostic test and then found out it was something really small (can't remember exactly what) which they could have told me over the counter. so thats why i'm a little sceptical about them.
But thank-you both for your knowledge, i will check the plugs and leads and report back if your still willing to help?
Natalie
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Leaving the issue for main dealers aside for the moment!, I think that if independants have to shell out big money to buy, update, and train themselves to use this complex kit, then they should be able to charge reasonably for its use - and more importantly, its wise use! In most cases, I believe this is the best way to diagnose faults.
>>then they charged me £80 for the diagnostic test and then found out it was something really small...
This is usually the case - the diagnostics found the small cheap part you needed, so the total bill was bearable. Would you be happier for them to guess and potentially (probably!) get it wrong at your expense? £80 doesn't buy much in the parts department of most dealers!
>>which they could have told me over the counter.
Really?, How?, Crystal Ball?
However, I think that the way dealers use their position of power is not particularly motorist friendly - I would like to see much greater freedom of information and more commonality between diagnostic systems, which would help everyone else but the dealers!
There are some really good mechanics and receptionists in the dealer systems, but some really awful ones too, and it's partly the luck of the draw which you get.
I am sorry about giving you a bit of a lecture, but I do feel the point needed straightening up, and I'm particularly sorry if you felt that I wasn't willing to be helpful.
I do hope that the plugs & leads fix your problem, please report back your progress.
Number_Cruncher
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well ive taken the spark plugs out. To me they don't look too bad, no water deposits, and all 4 look the same. they are all abit dirty at the bottom of the thread. The only thing that looks a little suspicious is that the core nose on all 4 looks quite clean (quite white) with a little bit of grey/black deposits but not much. the HT leads look fairly new to me, again no water deposits. Not entirely sure what to look for?
Nat
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me again!!
To answer a few of screwloose questions, plugs were last replaced as far as i can gather in 2004, does not mention HT leads anywhere but like i said they look quite new (not Ford i don't think) i cannot see any water in spark plug holes and the coil pack does say FOMOCO on it, which i assume is ford motor company?
Nat
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With the plug leads off, it's very easy to check their resistance. You are looking for sensible values, somewhere in region of a few K Ohms.
Number_Cruncher
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You could also check they are the correct plugs fitted, NGK recommend PTR5A-10, which are Platinum tipped, but some garages (accidentally) fit TR5A-10, which is the correct plug for 1.4 & 1.6 engines. What were the numbers on your plugs, if you post it here I will try and cross reference it for you. Regards.
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Natalie
It's nice to know that you haven't got the leaky core plugs in the head - they're a right pain to replace. However; we aren't, apparently, getting to the bottom of this; though it's nice to see a lady that can cope with a bit of mechanicking. Having done so well so far; how do you feel about carrying out a compression test? It's no more difficult that taking the plugs out; [a pre-requisite] but you'll need access to a suitable compression tester. [One with a long hose.]
Roughly how many miles have those plugs done? [The colour doesn't sound terribly unusual.] Are there any black lines down the outside of the ceramic insulator where the leads fit on?
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Hello again,
I think the plugs would have done about 15000 miles? ... and no i don't think there was any black lines on the ceramic insulator.
i went to my local garage yesterday and did a diagnostic test, unfortunately it came back as nothing wrong with the car, so the mechanic said he believed it was the idler switch etc needed cleaning out as they get clogged up, so he did that and it now idles alot better but the jerkiness of the acceleration is still there, and worse still the mechanic reacons it is barely running at all on two cyclinders. So, he then said its definately going to be the coil pack, so i got that done as well, but sadly no it wasn't that, its still got this mis-firing problem. SO, if nothing else at least we have eliminated a few of the possibles?
The car is still at the garage, they are now suggesting changing the HT leads? and spark plugs? ...
Nat
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Nat
Another textbook case of "poke-and-hope" diagnostics. What were the results of that compression test?
If it's running on two cyls - and those two can be identified at idle; then swap a lead from one of the cyls that is running and see if the "miss" moves. Ditto with the plugs.
If there's no spark from one side of the coilpack, do they even have an oscilloscope to check the primary-side signals? If not; on these [with three bits of cable] it's easy to swap the primary feeds on the [twin-coil] coilpack over on to it's other coil to prove the primary signals.
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Most likely a faulty coil pack. Not exactly uncommon on these.....
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Did you/they find the cause of the problem ?
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I had this problem on my focus, usual guesses of HT leads / coil pack yada yada...
went home, cleaned the throttle body / butterfly (covered in cack), car ran sweet as a nut after that
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Sorry to be so ignorant, but I have a similar rough idling problem with my 2002 Focus 1.6 and I don't really know what a 'coilpack' is.
Is it just the leads that fit onto the coil or is it the coil complete with all the leads and other gubbins? Also, can anyone give me a ballpark figure of what one of these babies costs?
Thanks
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Hi - if you look at the HT leads, they all terminate at one box. That's the coil pack and you're looking at around 50 quid. You can fit it yourself I think - four bolts and that's it.
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The coil pack itself would come without the leads too I think. It's just the box they plug into. (I'm sure there's a more technical explanation but I don't know it!)
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That's the coil pack and you're looking at around 50 quid.
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Adam is pretty accurate.
IIRC I payed £53 plus vat last week when I had it replaced at my servicing main dealer.
That was on a Mondeo but I suspect it is the same coil pack.
Suddenly I was running on 3 cylinders 50 miles from home but close to where I have my servicing done.
Fortunately it happened lunchtime and they could fit my little job in.
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Thanks for your help. I might get my trusty Hayne's manual out and give it a go.
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