gm motors - bell boy
did anyone else read the telegraph on saturday in relation to renault taking a stake in gm?

got this pm today

Renault, Nissan and GM alliance

Today the Financial Times says the board of French carmaker Renault will meet this evening to talk about adding General Motors to their alliance. The FT says that the idea involves Renault and Nissan injecting cash into GM in return for a combined 20% stake If it happens, the enlarged alliance would control nearly a quarter of world car development, purchasing and sales budgets.

any comments?
gm motors - Pugugly {P}
Hardly a shock given the precarious state of GM. More factories to close in the UK ? They already work together on the van thing don't they..Professor Garel Rhys predicted tectonic movements of this kind in the 80s.
gm motors - bell boy

its not the shock that worries ....................its the world domination or 25% to start with...........

the old story we have it.............. ....you want it?..............you pay!...................and government is a pawn in that game,not good for our childrens future...................
gm motors - Pugugly {P}
I agree oldman.....read the guru Dr Garel Rhys, he saw this coming when we were driving around in Austin 1100s.
He is spot on. I tried to get HJ to invite him to this site a couple of years ago.
gm motors - stunorthants
Isnt Renault state-owned? If so then France itself will own part of GM...
gm motors - carl_a
So instead of 3 failing companies there will be one massive failure, great idea.

In europe currently the two companies losing most sales are Nissan and Renault, 14.5% and 8.7% down respectively; Nissan is also seeeing falling sales in the US.
gm motors - jc2
Back in the 80's,it was stated that by early in the 21st. century the motor industry would be made up of three firms-Ford,GM & Toyota.
gm motors - piggy
Back in the 80's,it was stated that by early in the
21st. century the motor industry would be made up of three
firms-Ford,GM & Toyota.

>>
Karl Marx predicted this effect in his tome "Das Kapital". The Americans(and others) have anti trust laws to help prevent monopolies,but large multi-nationals seem to get around this by buying bits of each other.
In the long term this will have a damaging effect on innovation and developement.
gm motors - Altea Ego
Isnt Renault state-owned? If so then France itself will own part
of GM...



Right - facts first

Renault is 15% state owned, and 15% owned by Nissan. that leaves 70% owned by shareholders butit has to be said most is held by French banks and financial institutions, some of which are partially state owned.
Renaul has a 40% stake in Nissan (which rescued Nissan from severe financial doo doo)

This idea of a stake in GM is NOT a GM sponsored idea, its an idea sponsored by a major GM shareholder, not thre GM board. Renault/nissan will do nothing till invited by the GM board, not a rogue shareholder.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
gm motors - Chad.R
As TVM says, the proposal was put forward by one of GM's largest shareholders, Tracinda Corp, in late June. The GM board will discuss it on 7th July. Presumably Renault & Nissan will wait until they have the green-light from the GM board before they start any discussions.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5143860.stm



gm motors - bell boy
all very interesting everybody and thanks for the link Chad.R
gm motors - SjB {P}
More on the subject today: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5159472.stm
gm motors - NowWheels
It's bad enough having über-reliable Nissans polluted with Renault parts, but the prospect of them being corrupted with Vauxhall's designed-to-just-last-the-warranty components sounds even worse.

Choice in the motor industry is rapidly disappearing. In the last four decades, we've lost tons of makers: Alfa and Lancia fed to FIAT, Peugeot snapped up Simca via the Rootes Group, after swallowing Citroen and killing its soul; Ford gobbled Volvo, GM swallowed Saab, Skoda has become a VW brand, and I'm sure there are lots more.

Choice is disappearing fast :( At least I like Toyotas :-/
gm motors - Altea Ego
Choice in the motor industry is rapidly disappearing. In the
last four decades, we've lost tons of makers: Alfa and Lancia

fed to fiat

Yup Alfa made fab cars with unreliability levels even Fiat could laugh at
and Lancia made cars so rusty you could hear them being eaten.

Both masively improved under Fiat.

>>Peugeot snapped up Simca via the Rootes Group,
More like performed a mercy killling and saved us all
after swallowing Citroen and killing its soul;

Saved it from Financial ruin
Skoda has become a VW brand,

and made them into a serious car maker with a distinctive and unique brand image
and I'm sure
there are lots more.
Choice is disappearing fast :( At least I like
Toyotas :-/


Yes indeed NW, I can see you are misty eyed about a lot of crap cars.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
gm motors - NowWheels
Yes indeed NW, I can see you are misty eyed about a lot of crap cars.


Most of them were not my cup of tea, but I do miss the real Citroëns. The CX had its problems, and it was a long way from being the most reliable machine going, but it was a long way from crap.
gm motors - jc2
Ford also own Jaguar,Land-Rover and Aston Martin-they did at one time own Simca and at four times within their history considered amalgamating with Toyota;Mr.Toyoda,who was the boss at one time worked as an engineer at Ford back in the thirties.
gm motors - jc2
Also,remember that Nissan used to be Datsun-they changed the name to get rid of their old image.
gm motors - jc2
I missed out that Ford also own a controlling interest in Mazda(who at one time owned Kia).Daimler Benz(Mercedes) are owned by Chrysler.There used to be a wall-chart issued by the magazine "Automotive Engineering" which showed all the tie-ups,joint ventures and a lot of other info. much of which was not common knowledge.There were Escorts sold in South America using Renault engines-some of these were sold in Europe-mainly in Sweden.
gm motors - mare
"Daimler Benz(Mercedes) are owned by Chrysler."

Other way round!
gm motors - jc2
How many people from each company are on the board of management then??
gm motors - mare
How many people from each company are on the board of
management then??


www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0-5-65183-1-65184-1-...l

6 Germans, including the chairman
2 Americans
1 Canadian

5 ex Daimler Benz, including the chairman
2 ex Chrysler
1 ex General Motors
1 ex German aviation industry
gm motors - Stuartli
Large shareholders of businesses have a considerable say or influence on the way they are run or those at the top running them.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
GM motors - No to Renault - henry k
The merger is not going ahead.

The sudden end to the talks after two months left Renault- Nissan free to pursue another partner as expectations built it could approach Ford Motor Co

tinyurl.com/ljxpu
GM motors - No to Renault - jase1
> Renault- Nissan free to pursue another partner as expectations built it could approach Ford Motor Co

Well they certainly don't lack ambition do they?

I think it'd be very silly to take a share in either US company at the moment. The way things stand both companies are sinking like stones, and it'd surely be more sensible to let one of them teeter on the brink before coming in with the big guns.
GM motors - No to Renault - cheddar
Well they certainly don't lack ambition do they?


Re Renault / Ford, there is a difference between corporate ambition and media speculation.
gm motors - Aprilia
Ford also own Jaguar,Land-Rover and Aston Martin-they did at one time
own Simca and at four times within their history considered amalgamating
with Toyota;Mr.Toyoda,who was the boss at one time worked as an
engineer at Ford back in the thirties.


Ford never owned Simca, did they? I thought Simca took over Ford of France in the mid-1950's.

Which Toyoda worked for Ford?? I've read all the histories of Toyota and the Toyodas and visited the museum and archives in Japan. AFAIK the Toyodas only ever worked for the Toyoda Automatic Loom Co., or the Toyota Motor Co.
gm motors - jase1
Ford [...] did at one time own Simca


Wasn't that Chrysler?
gm motors - mare
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simca

Simca started off producing copies of Fiat's (sound familiar?).

Simca bought the Ford France operation including the factory at Poissy.

Simca were bought by Chrysler in 1963. Chrylser also owned Rootes as was. The two bits were encouraged to co-operate so the Alpine was (i think) a British design with Simca derived mechanicals. Or maybe that was the Horizon.

Anyway, Chrysler sold the whole lot to Peugeot, who renamed it Talbot and gradually ran it down. The last Talbot car was the Arizona, released as the Peugeot 309.

The Poissy factory is still going, Ryton is shutting, and Linwood is long gone.
gm motors - cheddar
It's bad enough having über-reliable Nissans polluted with Renault parts,


Just think, once the Renault influence really takes hold there might actually be a Nissan with character and flair.

the prospect of them being corrupted with Vauxhall's designed-to-just-last-the-warranty components sounds
even worse.


That is unfair, Vauxhalls dont have the best reputation here largely I beleive because the dealer network is carp however Opels compete in Europe on level territory with VW, Ford etc.


gm motors - madf
It's all irrelevant. Talks have broken down...
madf
gm motors - nick62
Also,remember that Nissan used to be Datsun-they changed the name to get rid of their old image.>>


I believe Nissan has always been the correct name for the company, its just that they chose to use the assumed name of "Datsun" when they launched into the US and European markets in the late 60's early 70's, because "Nissan" sounded too Japanese and it was only about 25 years after Pearl Harbour at the time!
gm motors - mare
It's kinda topical.

www.sniffpetrol.com/index.html

i laughed. lots.

Beware. Rude words lurk in that there website.
gm motors - jase1
Just think, once the Renault influence really takes hold there might
actually be a Nissan with character and flair.


Oh come off it.

If Nissan had released the Megane instead of Renault it would have been dismissed as ugly. You know that as well as I do.

Case in point -- Fiat release the hideously ugly Multipla and it's "radical" and "daring". Ssangyong release the equally hideously ugly Rodius and it's just that -- hideously ugly.

It's only been very recently that Renault have caught the style bug anyway. The 19, 21, Safrane, first Clio, first Megane, were these made with character and flair? No, they were unremarkable, cheap little rotboxes with ancient engines and dodgy electrics.
gm motors - bell boy
It's only been very recently that Renault have caught the style
bug anyway. The 19, 21, Safrane, first Clio, first Megane, were
these made with character and flair? No, they were unremarkable, cheap
little rotboxes with ancient engines and dodgy electrics.


say what you mean jase1 dont beat about the bush :-)
gm motors - glowplug
All I can think is that generally only the manufacturer of the cars most people can afford to buy and do so survive. As a previous owner of 3 Minis, 3 Metros, a Panda and now a Citroen etc...........
---
Xantia HDi.

Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
gm motors - jase1
say what you mean jase1 dont beat about the bush
:-)


:)

To be fair to Renault my comments could be applied to half a dozen other manufacturers at the time as well, it wasn't as if they were particularly different.
 

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