I have posted before on this and have been a very careful driver trying to keep correct lanes, indicating nicely and in time. The other day I was merrily making my way at about 70 mph in the inside lane and could not pull out because of middle lane hoggers...one in front and one just behind making it dangerous to pull out.. Behind me comes a coach ...flashing his lights and gesticulating in an aggressive manner for me to undertake the middle lane hogger. What would you have done backroomers? (The inside lane in front was quite clear and the coach was getting close too)
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Pulled out of his way, noted the company he worked for, the vehicle reg and the time and reported him.
No excuse for that kind of thing.
Lee -- There\'s no place like 127.0.0.1
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Slowed right down and then floored it.
I'm probably in a minority though.
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I'd have probably sped up and left him for dead, to make a point, got a sufficient distance, braked heavily and then wait for him to catch up - then I'd creep up to the pace I was doing before and make it clear who's in charge. Lol.
I must admit, I have undretaken when there has been one car doing 60mph in the fast lane, when they're not overtaking anything in the middle. It's ridiculous...I'm sure people don't understand motorways because they're not really covered in their driving tests - it's a part of Pass Plus.
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I'd have "passed" the middle lane hogger while trying to maintain a correct speed, of course I'd have speeded up to get passed but mainly to give me the space to get out of the way of the nutter in the coach.
I use the word "passed" because it is NOT undertaking unless you cruise up behind him, change lanes, pass him and then pull back in front of him.
I was taught by an advance driving instructor that providing I take as much care as possible there is no reason to restrict my progress to that of the car in the lane next to me.
Consider 3 lanes of largely stationary traffic... the lanes move independantly of each other no one considers that "undertaking"
JaB
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Are coaches now not allowed in the middle lane? It's up to him to move over and overtake you, not you to perform dangerous manouveres so he can be a happy chappy.
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I don't quite get the picture. Do you mean you were doing 70 until you came level with the lane hoggers, and then hesitated to "undertake" them, or they were hogging the middle lane doing 70 but you (and the coach) wanted to go faster?
I agree with just a bloke - maintaining your speed but passing them on the inside is not undertaking.
If that is the correct scenario, I'd just have kept going at 70 and ignored the coach. Maybe touch the brake pedal as a warning, but I know that can be a red rag to a bull.
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I agree with- just a bloke
Providing there is a hard shoulder and that hard shoulder is completely clear (your escape route if the middle lane hogger decides to pull into lane 1 and doesn't see you) I would maintain my speed and pass on the inside whilst watching the midle lane driver very carefully, watching body language through the window etc.
jacks
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I would of indicated back to the coach in an aggressive manner driver to pull onto the hard shoulder and see what he had to say face to face. Sounds like he was completly out of order. Although a somebody else said, im probably in the minority in my actions.
Lee
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"I agree with just a bloke - maintaining your speed but passing them on the inside is not undertaking."
IMO that statement is incorrect and passing on the left in the scenario described above is undertaking and not legal. There is provision for 'undertaking' in slow moving lanes of traffic, but not at 70mph. So I would like to see the justification for the above statement.
In the situation described I would have probably undertaken. However if the middle lane hogger had changed lanes and hit me I wonder who would be in the wrong - probably both of us.
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Don't worry, the speed cameras will sort all the middle lane hoggers, and angry ignorant drivers out
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Ignore, get out of the way ASAP, then report. Another example of so-called "professional" driving standards, which are at an all-time low IMHO.
Cue hordes of HGV and PSV drivers saying how perfect their companies are and how it's a minority etc.... : )
Maybe true, but every incident is a possible crash, and however much you hate to hear it, IT'S YOUR JOB and you should learn to do it PROPERLY.
I couldn't give a fiddler's fiddle if you're being penalised for late delivery of whatever "hugely important" cargo you're carrying. NOT MY PROBLEM. Transport managers need to take into account road conditions, and you drivers need to assert yourselves and explain what's going on in the real world. Meanwhile GET YOUR LORRY OFF MY TAILGATE and don't take your anger at said late delivery out on me, because I DON'T CARE, and I don't want to die because your cream cakes to Tesco are not being delivered on time.
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If I'm doing an appropriate speed in the inside lane and people in the outer lane are going slower, I pass them (if it is safe to do so).
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Cardew, I have discussed with my local IAM group. The consensus is that if a person in the middle lane is doing less than 70 mph in the middle lane and you are in the inside lane doing 70 then going past on the inside isn't undertaking legally, but caution must be maintained as jacks suggests with the hard shoulder as a final means for an evasive manouvre. If someone is doing less than 70 and has had plenty of opportunity to come back into the inside lane and doesn't then they are unaware of what is going on around them and as such you are in danger doing anything around them be that passing them on the inside outside or driving behind them.
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Cardew, I have discussed with my local IAM group. The consensus is that ....
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smoke - i.m.o, that is a far reaching statement to attribute as being the consensus of the iam local group.
it needs to be a definitive statement that can be backed up before publishing here as their consensus.
i.m.o., cardew is right, what you and the local iam (apparently) are condoning is against the highway code and maybe against the law.
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Cardew, I have discussed with my local IAM group. The consensus is that if a person in the middle lane is doing less than 70 mph in the middle lane and you are in the inside lane doing 70 then going past on the inside isn't undertaking legally,
Smoke,
What, in practice, people do in the situation described by the OP was not the point of my post.
I was merely challenging the assertion that passing on the left at 70mph is legal. I don?t think it is, and IMO the IAM do not decide on what is lawful or not, or even what elements of the Highway Code should be ignored.
A very common scenario, particularly on dual carriageways, occurs when a queue of several vehicles in the outside lane at 70mph are waiting their turn to overtake a slow moving lorry. A car using your interpretation of the law - that allows passing on the left - races up the inside and barges into the queue. Apart from IMO being illegal, it is infuriating.
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Cardew, I have discussed with my local IAM group. The consensus is that if a person in the middle lane is doing less than 70 mph in the middle lane and you are in the inside lane doing 70 then going past on the inside isn't undertaking
very strange when i discussed this with my observer last night i was told undertaking was a definite no no in these circumstances. you should hang back leaving plenty of space for the car to pull in wait for a big enough gap to move out in 2 seperate manouveres to the outside lane pass the individual and then pull back in to the inside lane again in 2 seperate manouveres
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Temporarily not a student, where did the time go???
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>>IMO that statement is incorrect and passing on the left in the scenario described above is undertaking and not legal. There is provision for 'undertaking' in slow moving lanes of traffic, but not at 70mph.
>>So I would like to see the justification for the above statement.
Rule 242 of the highway code here :-
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.htm
States "In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
So it doesn't state any speed restriction for this manouver, so I still reckon I'm not breaking the law by passing on the inside at < 70 mph.
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So it doesn't state any speed restriction for this manouver, so I still reckon I'm not breaking the law by passing on the inside at < 70 mph.
You convieniently missed the first few words of that quote above; it states: "Do not overtake on the left "
The same regulation states: "Overtake only on the right." It also gives a reference to several other regulations that prohibit overtaking on the left.
Your quote it refers to "Congested conditions where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds," and "you may keep up with the traffic in your lane"
IMO that quite clearly covers the situation where lanes of 'nose to tail' traffic are moving at different speeds and is not a licence to undertake.
That is a completely different scenario to that painted by the OP - who stated the inside lane ahead was clear - so it was not a case keeping up with the traffic.
I would wager that if you undertook a 'middle lane hogger' simply because, in your opinion, he was going too slow for that lane, you could be pulled over by the law.
What you or I would do in the OP's situation is not the issue(I would probably just undertake) but I wouldn't pretend it was legal.
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It's all subjective really - finding the points that back up your personal opinion and glossing over those which don't.
You can't overtake on the left because if someone is on the right they would only be there is there was traffic on the left that they were passing!?
These rules don't stand up to a lot of scutiny at all, so maybe shouldn't be given so much scrutiny.
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What would you have done backroomers?
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barney100 - im.o.; i believe the correct procedure is for you to slow down gradually, and allow the coach to overtake you when they feel safe to move over to the middle lane to join the middle lane hoggers. i.m.o., if you were travelling faster than the middle lane hoggers, you should have anticipated this situation arising and moved over to the middle lane behind them and then overtaken them. that is what i would have done.
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>>if you were travelling faster than the middle lane hoggers, you should have anticipated this situation arising and moved over to the middle lane behind them and then overtaken them. that is what i would have done.
I face this situtaion daily on the M3 and this method wouldn't work. If I have a coach attached to my rear bumper, slowing down is likely to be , literally, life threatening. I can't overtake the middle lane hoggers anyway because lane 3 is full of pfds driving 5 feet from each other at 70 mph. I do the same as smokie suggests.
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I can't overtake the middle lane hoggers anyway because lane 3 is full of pfds driving 5 feet from each other at 70 mph. I do the same as smokie suggests.
Only 70? What is this M3, a nursery or what?
I don't undertake, but smokie and HJ are only two of those who think one can do it sometimes.
People mimsing up the middle lane below the speed limit ought to be pulled by the motorway police and given a severe talking-to.
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What motorway police would that be? I am driving from Peterborough to Berwick tomorrow and I shall make a careful note of all police vehicles I see patrolling, as opposed to tending scenes of incidents. In my 300 mile journey I am confident that I shall not reach double figures, inclding these new fangled non-police patrol people.
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In answer to AS's post, that would be the motorway police that ought to be policing our motorways.
They do exist, and are sometimes to be found driving mischievously along at a speedometer 67mph in front of a growing queue of commuters, too chicken to overtake, Plod laughing up his sleeve.
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I commute daily on the M6 and each time I undertake someone as they cannot be bothered to move to a suitable lane!
What is more dangerous? Undertaking or pulling across two lanes twice to overtake the species driving in the middle lane.
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Quite, I tend to keep to my comfort speed these days & if that involves undertaking (and frequently does) then so be it. These muppets in the outer lanes rarely pull back in anyway so the risk is quite small. And everyone is quick to point out that speed kills so undertaking can't be an issue, is it?
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I used to use the M3 regularly, and quite frankly it would grind to a halt if everyone obeyed the letter of thge law. The outside lane was full of nutters often driving at less than 70mph, nose to tail, hardly a car's length apart......yet inner two lanes flowing nicely with more sensible gaps, and ofetn at higher speeds. Usual problem - frightened of losing their place if they move over. If no-one undertook it would have become a car park.
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I pass on the nearside on motorways.
It is a legal grey area, as long as you are well versed in the rules, you should be able to answer questions correctly if ever they do bring back Police motorway patrols and one of them has a bad attitude, films you and then pulls you over for it. Until that day arrives, I'll be happily passing via any clear lanes.
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From what I read about this topic before.
You can undertake as long its not for gain, in other words to pass someone on the inside then pull into thier lane in front of them.
But I've also read, that its ok to undertake but if you cause an accident then you'd be done for Dangerous driving etc.
After all the Squadies do it, when they are late for thier cuppa and bacon bun, I've seen them do it as there is an unmanned patrol rest office near me.
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Behind me comes a coach ...
If you were doing 70mph, how could a coach catch you in such a rate when they are govened to 65mph max. unless they coast/overrun down hill.???
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Here's a slight variation on the theme:
You are driving a slower moving vehicle and reach the start of an uphill section with a crawler lane. You pull over into it, and make your best speed to get up the hill with a run. About halfway up you realise you are about to undertake a vehicle doddering along in the ordinary lane.
Do you:
a) undertake
b) slow down, throw away all your momentum, and probably hold up a queue of other slower vehicles too
c) pull over into the ordinary lane and try to encourage the other vehicle to move to the crawler lane?
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Given the Americanisation (Americanization?) of our roads - see concrete median barriers discussion, and calls for "left turns on red" proposals - it can't be too long before undertaking is made legal.
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Given the Americanisation (Americanization?) of our roads...
You missed out SUV's and the shortening of peoples awareness to the end of their car's bonnet!
Still, top marks for effort. ;o)
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