The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - autumnboy
Is the end in sight for petrol cars after todays result of the Le Mans - Audi R10 diesel 1st and 3rd.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - T Lucas
If that means we all end up driving coal burners i'm depressed,what a terrible thought.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - George Porge
Diesels the future ;-O
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
T Lucas sums it up for me!

A sad sad day.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Altea Ego
NNNNN TYS

------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Altea Ego
Nah nah nah nah nah

Told You So
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - colinh
So that's the diesel TT confirmed
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - OldHand
The regulations are slanted in favour of diesel by quite some margin. This doesn't really prove anything, plus did you see it?

One word- boring.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Armitage Shanks {p}
It is motor racing, therefore it is boring! Try Moto GP if you want to see wheeled entertainment. Great race today in Spain, next weekend at Assen and the week after that at Donington.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
Audi's le Mans victory is a tremendous boost for diesel cars (no pun intended). Clearly now the diesel engine is the way ahead in all sectors of the car market. This year's Audi 2 car was only the third ever diesel entry at Le mans - there was last year's Judd-Caterpillar which was doing OK until the gearbox broke and there was one diesel entry in the early 1950's.

Audi's victory could well turn the tide towards diesels in te USA, where the R10 has been winning races in the American 'Le Mans' series.

I don't predict the immediate demise of the petrol engine although I can see companies like VW group, Mercedes and even BMW relegating petrol to the cheapest entry level models.

Will there ever be a diesel Ferrari? Who knows? (where can I buy a conversion kit to fit a Perkins Prima to a Daytona?)
Porsche have said they have no plans to develop any diesels.

And this Audi was apparently amazingly quiet. I've been to le Mans 7 times and some of the cars could do with being a little bit quieter!!

I wonder if Audi or Dr. Rudolf Diesel can do it again next year. McLaren swept the board with their F1's in 1995 ontly to blown away by Porsche the following year. Things can change fast!
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
>>>If that means we all end up driving coal burners i'm depressed,what a terrible thought.<<<

We have 2 '94 VWs, one petrol and one TDI diesel - even if it is a bit less smooth at low speeds the diesel is much nicer to drive.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
It's not all about torque, speed and economy. For that reason, you'll always get a top spec petrol option on cars (decent ones anyway).

It's about soul. It's about planting your foot and hearing that wonderful noise just before it hits the limiter!

I should hope that if ever someone at Ferrari suggested a diesel, they would be promptly sacked.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
>>We have 2 '94 VWs, one petrol and one TDI diesel - even if it is a bit less smooth at low speeds the diesel is much nicer to drive.<<

You're not driving the petrol hard enough then ;-)
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
1.4 petrol, 1.9 TDI - could have something to do with it!
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
Ah yes - being sneaky there aren't you Mr Spud?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
>>I should hope that if ever someone at Ferrari suggested a diesel, they would be promptly sacked.<<

Why, over the years Ferrari have employed mid-engines, fibreglass panels, fuel injection, engines other than V12, colours other than red, bodies other than beautiful, so somewhere in the distant future they might try a diesel!
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
>>Ah yes - being sneaky there aren't you Mr Spud?<<

Sorry! But seriously, my Passat TDI is 12 years old, has done 161K miles and the engine just chumbles on and, wonky air mass meter permitting, gives a good whoosh of go when you need it!
Diesel cars have come on a lot since my old donkey left the factory too.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
>>It's about soul. It's about planting your foot and hearing that wonderful noise just before it hits the limiter!
<<

Perhaps it's just me being funny but I've come to prefer the sound of a diesel, even a humble 4 cylinder one, over many petrol engines.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
Haha - You're funny.





;-)
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
Because no matter how much money we plough into development, research and engineering, a diesel engine will always sound boring. No matter how quick you're going.

I don't like a lot of Ferraris but I'll openly admit - not one of them is boring.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
These days the V8 sound says to me 'gas guxxler'

Some sixes, especially automatics, sound like upmarket vacuum cleaners.

Subaru flat-4 says 'Chav-alier with a misfire'


It's all a matter of taste.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - blue_haddock
Even big diesels still sound like diesels, not even the V6 or V8 diesels sound remotely interesting. Apart from 4 cylinder petrol engines all other varients makes such a unique sound - the silkyness of a beemer straight 6, the rumble of a big V8 or the glorious sound of an air cooled flat six porker.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Pugugly {P}
Adam I can assure that a 535d at full diesel chat does not sound boring......
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
Without wanting to backpedal;

You're slightly different PU in as much that you have a nice looking car and what's more, a nice looking car with a rather large engine.

Even though it's a diesel, it's pretty big which therefore makes up for the fact....almost.

;-)
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Pugugly {P}
but it's quieter at 100 mph than a petrol version ....or so that dreadful Jeremy person would have us believe
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
Out of interest, how quick will it go?


The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - piggy
It's not all about torque, speed and economy. For that reason,
you'll always get a top spec petrol option on cars (decent
ones anyway).
It's about soul. It's about planting your foot and hearing that
wonderful noise just before it hits the limiter!
I should hope that if ever someone at Ferrari suggested a
diesel, they would be promptly sacked.

>>


Well said Adam! Agree with every word!
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - bell boy
sorry if its been mentioned but did the winning driver put on a latex glove to fill the diesel tank up before the race? because the stuff stinks and is not an ideal combination with racing car tyres and leaks
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
Perhaps they should bring back straight cut gears and crash gearboxes to give vehicles more 'soul'. "musical whining sound..crunch...whine in a different key...crunch...whine in a subtly different key again...crunch...no whine" (direct top, 4 speed, of course!)
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
>>Well said Adam! Agree with every word!<<

Thanks! It's not often I hear that.

>>Perhaps they should bring back straight cut gears and crash gearboxes to give vehicles more 'soul'<<

Maybe they should - I double declutch anyway ;-)
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Hamsafar
I had a straight six BMW diesel before my current v6 diesel and grew to love the sound, it sounded like a straight six petrol but an octave lower. I think diesels have more soul, like steam trains had/have compared to diesel electric.

The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
To be honest, some 6's, V8's etc do get the pulse going (Bentley 8-Litre, Triumph TR6 or AC Cobra, Panoz) but, like I said about the crash gearboxes above, times move on.

One of the most amazing engine sounds was, in fact, a diesel - the Foden 2-stroke supercharged sixes (and fours) fitted to a minority of Foden lorries up until the early 70's.

Imagine an un-silenced BMW 6 with a howling supercharger at the same time. These trucks WERE noisy - couldn't have too much silencing or the back pressure would impede the uniflow 2-stroke
process which involved the supercharger blowing an excess of air through the cylinders.

These Foden engines didn't rev particularly high but because they were 2-stroke they sounded like they were doing twice the actual revs compared to a 4-stroke.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
>>Maybe they should - I double declutch anyway ;-)<<

I used to drive lorries with crash gearboxes and so I had to double declutch on those which was satisfying. You knew when you'd got it right and everyone knew when you got it wrong!!
But I gave up doing it on my cars ages ago.

I never got to drive a Foden 2-stroke like I mentioned above. I believe they were very difficult to drive because of the narrow power and torge band and they had 12 speed gearboxes in the days when most heavies made do with 5 or 6 speeds.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
Admittedly I only really do it on fast downchanges.

Not sure I could live with it on trucks! Did the crash boxes have loads of gears back then? Don't current ones now have 16 or something?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - bell boy
he wont hear you adam he will be death from the engine noise in the cab that ten blankets could quieten
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Altea Ego
Admittedly I only really do it on fast downchanges.


Err thats makes them slow downchanges then Adam. you need to learn to heel and toe. (or more accurate with modern pedal layouts - "side of foot" and toe.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Adam {P}
You and your funny old ways RF.


The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
>>steam trains had/have compared to diesel electric. <<

Not even the good old Deltic with its 2 engines, each with 18 double ended cylinders, 36 pistons, 3 crankshafts and, like the Fodens I was on about, 2-stroke supercharged. Sounds crazy so if you want to know more search the net for a diagram of Napier Deltic engine!!

The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Robin Reliant
I've always thought Formula 1 shoud go to diesels, at least for a few seasons. Now that would speed up development by a bit.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
The one I drove most was a Leyland Super Comet 16 ton Gross that had 6 speeds and a 2-speed rear axle. Actually the crash box was easy to master - you needed to double declutch on UP and DOWN changes except on up changes you didn't blip the revs like on downchanges. Being a low revving engine there was a bit of give, when you just got a slight 'chink' buy if you got in spot on you could change gear with your little finger.

The 2-speed rear axle effectively gave 12 ratios, a bit like on a mountain bike where there are the sprocket gears and chainwheel gears. The Leyland's 2-speed was worked by a plunger button on the gearlever and afforded half-steps in ratios which was useful on long hills with variable gradients.

I drove lorries with synchromesh too but they could be stiff to change - this in the 1970's, mind.

The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
Re modern lorries. I don't drive HGVs these days though I've kept my licence up 'just in case'. I think crash gearboxes have disappeared from the scene now and the multi-speed types are synchro or, increasingly, what are called 'automated gearboxes' with a clutchless nudge shift - push the lever forward for up, back for down, also usually with an fully automatic mode.

These gearboxes, which are beginning to find their way into cars too, are called automatED rather than automatIC because they employ an automated clutch, spur gears and selectors rather than the torque converter, planetary gears and brake bands of the traditional automatic.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - CJay{P}
>Actually the crash box was easy to master

Can I ask a foolish question - what is a 'crash box'?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Altea Ego
Very few of you have had the pleasure to hear a steam train doing what it does best, at speed, and I mean 60 mph plus.

Unfourtunatley most peoples idea of steam is that heard on restored lines where the speeds are limited and the steam train is a beast caged and severely strangled.

Ah the deltic. My old man drove one of those as well, and loved it. It too was hot, smelly and made a terrific noise at speed.

Let face it. Big engine petrol italian beasts, and american gas muscle sound fabulous.
The rest sound pathetic, and are easily beaten on the aural stakes by a diesel


------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - blue_haddock
Let face it. Big engine petrol italian beasts, and american gas
muscle sound fabulous.
The rest sound pathetic, and are easily beaten on the aural
stakes by a diesel


So you think the chugging noise of a diesel is better than an on song scooby or an air cooled 911?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
Re modern lorries. I don't drive HGVs these days though I've kept my licence up 'just in case'. I think crash gearboxes have disappeared from the scene now and the multi-speed types are synchro or, increasingly, what are called 'automated gearboxes' with a clutchless nudge shift - push the lever forward for up, back for down, also usually with an fully automatic mode.

These gearboxes, which are beginning to find their way into cars too, are called automatED rather than automatIC because they employ an automated clutch, spur gears and selectors rather than the torque converter, planetary gears and brake bands of the traditional automatic.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
Now, perhaps I'm becoming too silly here, but one of the most unusual vehicle sounds, again a 2-stroke diesel, albeit a very primative one. The Field Marshall of the 1940's/50's. Massive single cylider engine, massive flywheel. On tickover it rocks back and forth (horizontal, forward facing cylinder) going "num-num-num-num" Moves off with a characteristic screech from the clutch and goes "pot-pot-pot-pot" loudly under load. Eat your heart out Royal Enfield!!
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Altea Ego
my vespa sounded better than a porsche.

Wait they both had hairdryers for engines...
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
So what about next year's Le Mans? Single cylinder diesel tractor versus Vespa hairdryer?

The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - DP
I agree. The average modern four pot petrol engine fitted to a typical modern daily driver is a featureless, soulless, over-silenced non-entity. The completely linear power delivery and draconian silencing removes any pleasure from extending the engine or driving it enthusiastically, not to mention just how strangled and breathless they feel at higher revs.

I hate diesel clatter, but at least a typical modern turbodiesel has some genuine muscle about its delivery. When you get it on boost around its peak torque revs it pushes you into the seat and chucks the car up the road with surprising vigour. They also seem to cope much better with the relentless weight explosion of modern cars.

The economy is just a bonus IMO.

For a six+ cylinder sports car I'd still take petrol every time, but for daily driver / family cars, I wouldn't look at anything other than diesel any more.

Cheers
DP
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Group B
Ah the deltic. My old man drove one of those as
well, and loved it. It too was hot, smelly and made
a terrific noise at speed.


I cant say I have any interest in trains, but I used to enjoy going home to Sheffield from Uni in Brighton. After riding on electric trains south of London, getting to St. Pancras with big diesel Intercity 125's rumbling away and belching out black fumes, was quite special!

I was down there a fortnight ago for the first time in a couple of years; can't believe they have got rid of the glorious old Victorian train shed at St Pancras?!
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - patently
TVM,

When you called yourself RF, I remember you being very friendly and approachable. You had a good sense of humour, which could and would bite from time to time, but the recipient usually found it as funny as those watching.

Now I've come back and you've changed moniker. You also seem to have changed personality - less humour and more bite?

Ignore me if I'm speaking out of turn, but has something happened to change your perspective on life?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Lud

>>
One of the most amazing engine sounds was, in fact, a
diesel - the Foden 2-stroke supercharged sixes (and fours) fitted to
a minority of Foden lorries up until the early 70's.


Hooray SS, I can still hear that crackle, and they went very well indeed too, in an era when HGVs were supposed to be governed at 38mph... I know those Foden diesels weren't HGVs but they were quite big and could outrun and out-accelerate most if not all of their contemporaries. The first sporting truck.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Martin Devon
It's not all about torque, speed and economy. For that reason,

>>>>
It's about soul.


The modern diesel, IMHO replicates closely the thrust and the top gear, (from 30 mph), ability of the old pushrod V8's and petrol cars are left looking naff, rev hungry, fuel wasting piles of doo doo. Before diesel all of us boys would have died for a V8. Go on, tell me different. All I ever wanted was either a Mustang or a Dodge (Chrysler) Charger, two friends had them and were quite attainable. Pants now compared with modern cheap common rail diesel stuff and almost as quick. I have never driven a big lux diesel, but I do drive an old E320 petrol Merc'. Decently quick, but not by E320CDI standards! where does that leave us then chaps? Diesel is the ONLY way forward in the short term. On level ground I can drive my (laden), Master van around in fifth from 35mph. Worth thinking about.

VVBR........................MARTIN.D
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Roly93
The regulations are slanted in favour of diesel by quite some
margin. This doesn't really prove anything, plus did you see it?
One word- boring.

>>
Why would we want to hold on to an engine technology (petrol) which is only about 25% efficient with diesels having 50% or more fuel efficiency ? Granted, diesels do need a turbo to make them acceptable to drive, that said, once rolloign the average 2.0 TDI will perform like most 2.5 petrol cars.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Avant
If we're comparing noises (which I have to sayt wasn't what the original post was about - sorry!), I wonder if the contrast between boring and interesting is a matter of 4 v. 6 cylinders rather than diesel v. petrol.

Both the 6-cylinder cars I've had (petrol Laguna V6, A4 Avant 2.4 TDI) made lovely noises - alwasy refined but never boring, and oddly eniugh quite similar to each other. The Audi was certainly no louder than the Laguna.

The current B-class (B200 CDI) makes a foul noise, especially on acceleration - very like a London taxi. Probably my come-uppance for rudely calling Mercs German taxis all these years. I'm not at all sure how long I can put up with it.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Avant
2.5 TDI not 2.4 in case anyone thinks I had a petrol engine in there all the time!
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Collos25
One of the considerations in the EU is the retailing of fuel by mass and not volume this will make diesel somewhat more expensive so I do not think the petrol engine is dead yet.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Hamsafar
"So you think the chugging noise of a diesel is better than an on song scooby or an air cooled 911?"

Not a chugging diesel, a howling diesel.
There is a fire station near me with some new Scania (I think) fire engine and the engine sounds awesome as it sets off!!
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - DP
Try a 2.4 20v Alfa 156 JTD as well. Sounds fantastic under full chat.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Group B
20 years ago all diesel car engines used to sound like Black Cabs, but diesels sound a lot better nowadays, and IMO preferable to some of the horrible tinny whining little 4 cylinder petrol hairdryer engines they fit in modern small cars. Obviously 'pleasing exhaust note' is not part of the design brief for these cars.
IMO more than 4 cylinders can improve things substantially, petrol or diesel. I agree diesels can't compete with *the great* petrol engines for sound quality; American V8's, Audi Quattro straight 5, Aston Vanquish V12 are aural heaven. Having said that my old J-reg Pug 405 Mi16 had a quite satisfactory exhaust note; a 1.9 4 cylinder, but quite highly tuned and notably with no cat in the exhaust.

If these people are to be believed, performance diesel technology has a long way to go: www.bankspower.com/Tech_dieselperf.cfm
What if you could get a diesel engine to rev as high as a petrol one? (note the picture with the nonsensical caption!)

But what if biofuels take off as the dominant fuel source, rather than hybrids or hydrogen. The new Saab 9-5 Biopower produces a healthy extra wedge of power running on a bioethanol blend, than it does running on straight petrol. So I dont think petrol engines are dead just yet.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - mss1tw
Big, high-revving, powerful gasoline engines were the norm in the ?50s through the early ?70s.

I'd love to know what the Yank definition of slow revving, weak engines were in those days then!

No arguments with 'big' though...

The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Altea Ego
Have to say the British Rail Engineering (BREL) built class 159 sprinters fitted with a few 400hp Cummims NTA855R diesel engines, trollng along at 80mph sound really quite muscular
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - DP
Interesting article.

The reason diesel engines don't rev as high as petrol engines is purely because they start to reach the limits imposed by fuel burn rate at around 5,000 RPM. Diesel is slower burning than petrol, and the mixture cannot burn in the cylinder "in time" when crank speeds get up to this level.

Unless there is a radical change in diesel fuel, this limitation is pretty much insurmountable. This is why newer diesels still rev no higher than the rattly crates that were chugging around 20 years ago.

The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
A historical precedent on the resistance to diesels relates again to the Foden company mentioned above, but around 1930.

Fodens were makers of steam lorries and had developed them to a level where they were quite sophisticated and had compared favourably with contemporary petrol powered heavy lorries except for the penalty of a higher unladen weight.

But other manufacturers had begun to offer diesels in place of petrol for big trucks and buses. The economy benefits meant a rapid move to diesel and Foden was left in the doldrums. As a gesture they did offer a diesel model but it was poorly conceived and they also did a petrol light truck. Fodens didn't see the writing on the wall.

But one member of the family, Edwin Richard Foden, did. So he went off and set up E.R.Foden (ERF)to build his own designs, using the best of bought-in components including Gardner diesel engines.

Soon the ailing original Foden company were forced to face the future and came up with modern vehicles, using the same Gardner engines. Later they even went on to build their own 2-stroke diesels that I mentioned above and Fodens and ERF both continued making trucks at Sandbach in Cheshire until quite recently.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Altea Ego
And I thought I was being sad and nerdy about the BREL DMU'S with cummins engines!
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
I wonder if anyone has developed positively refrigerated intercooling for diesels to get the densest possible air mass into the cylinders. Or would that sap more power than it adds in stronger combustion?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
Just looked on the net - it's been done and Ford are working on a patented system. Drat!!!! pipped at the post again!!!
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - mss1tw
What's the link?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
Try:

autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/article.html?&A=0436&P=1
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - bobda
There are so many diesels that sound 'interesting' now.

My daily drive is a 1.9 DCi in a Volvo, but yesterday I drove my dad's S60 D5 to Loughborough and back and the noise that makes when under load is very 'interesting'.

At first it was nice to have something different pulling me along, but after a while it got a bit monotonous. Some people like it, though...
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Lud
Some modern V6 turbodiesels are amazingly refined, silent until very high revs and then making a pleasant very subdued howl. Even modern fours (like the Citroen C4) sound and feel a trifle dieselly at idle and on initial clutch takeup but with a few rpm become very quiet if not silent. They go incredibley well too.

I don't see petrol engines disappearing just yet though.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Xileno {P}
Having just had another drive in a Megane 225 Sport, I think I may be switching to petrol next... :-)

Diesel is for economy IMO, that's all. Although judging by the number of recent threads about diesel turbos blowing, catalysts etc. I wonder who actually benefits from that economy? The manufacturers perhaps?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Altea Ego
The Megane 225 sport is a helava car. A real evil looking monster that will bite your head off and poo in your neck cavity...

However


you couldnt live with one day in day out as your primary transport.


------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Xileno {P}
Oooooooh yes I could :-)
The five door model at least. Six speed gearbox for relaxed cruising when one doesn't want to go too fast. Only about £100 a year more in insurance as well... (one of the advantages of advancing years).

225 :-)

Or maybe dCi 175?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Micky
">There are so many diesels that sound 'interesting' now.<"

?????? The only interesting dessial sound is a Deltic

My top ten IC engine sounds, in no particular order.

Laverda Jota with 180' engine, is it a twin or is it a triple?
JJZ109
Slippery Sam on the IOM, a haunting howl.
Deltic, a mere 1 500 bhp in British Rail guise, 3 300 bhp in Nasty boats and 5 000+ bhp on the dyno. Might not fit into a road vehicle though ..... but someone should try ;-)
Strange-Metro-with-a-V6-in-the-back.
Group B quattro (with flames please)
BRM V16 ... astonishing
Triumph Snag ... what could have been etc.
H1 Mach III (and derivatives)
Anything powered by Merlin or Meteor. If the PPC SD1 runs at Goodwood I might drool slightly.

I'm sure that a compression-ignition powered offering from Bavaria might be a good car, but would one drive it on a circuitous route through various tunnels/underpasses in London merely for the aural pleasure?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - patently
If a petrol car had won, would we proclaim the end of the diesel car?

In fact, now I think of it, petrol cars win every single F1 race. Does that mean diesel is useless? Of course not. The F1 rules favour petrol, as the LM rules now favour diesel.

Horses for courses.

(yawn)
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - tr7v8
The equivalence factor is the same for all race cars,so in theory an F1 car could be diesel (although knowing FOCA it mmaybe completely banned!) If the Audi diesel had to run the same capacity as it's petrol version then they wouldn't stand a chance. VW have been rallying a Golf with some success but absolute power isn't so significant in the standard class rallying.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - mike hannon
I don't think Foden did develop the steam lorry to a terrific extent. To the end they were 'overtypes' and looked and sounded like railway engines.
The company that really developed the steam lorry was Sentinel of Shrewsbury, whose undertype engines were fast, quiet and powerful but the company was done for by new legislation on weights and other things (IIRC) in the early 1930s.
50 years ago my Father drove a new Foden eight-legger with a Gardner 6LW diesel for British Road Services (sigh). It had a steering wheel with the speedometer in the hub - eat your heart out Citroen C4!
PS: did the winning Audi at Le Mans have a particulate filter? Or did everyone in the front row of the crowd have to wear an anti-cancer face mask?
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - tr7v8
Just found it!

Just so long as people realise that the R10 uses a 5.5L engine running at 1.5bar of boost. The petrol turbo engines are limited to 4.0L and 0.5Bar of boost, no doubt a great engine but the rest of the car, driver and different rules make up 95% of the win I would say.

Don't get me wrong I'm not anti derv (well maybe a little) its just some people constantly bang on about the massive torque all the time and forget turbo'd petrol motors produce torque as well.
There, got the retort in even before anyone said anything!

The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - PhilW
"One of the most amazing engine sounds was, in fact, a diesel - the Foden 2-stroke supercharged sixes (and fours) fitted to a minority of Foden lorries up until the early 70's."

And don't forget the Commer T3!!

--
Phil
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - AlanGowdy
I see the dinosaurs have been stung by Audi's win.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - type's'
Heaven help us if we all end up driving diesels.
We will all have to start wearing gas masks to filter out the Nox.
At least with a bit more CO2 we can plant some trees to counter it.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - mss1tw
Can't we just put the NOx straight into petrol cars, or is NOS different? :^D
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Tomo
Yes!

The Commer had a glorious sound, in an era when car exhausts were beginning to be strangled, from the Rootes 3 cylinder opposed piston 2-stroke diesel; the latter was necessarily blown to effect scavenging, and oil from the blower was said to account for exhaust sparks under heavy load.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
>>And don't forget the Commer T3!!<<

I remember those - 3 double-ended cylinders, 6 pistons and a complicated rocker mechanism to connect them to a single crankshaft - similar principle to the Deltic, in fact.

The 2-stroke diesel lives on in the modern GM freight locomotives, now a common sight on our railways, in EWS, Hanson and other livereies. We get them around our way and they are surprisingly quiet, though, with more noise from the supercharger, cooling fans and generator than the exhaust! When running light they sound like underground trains because the electric traction motors make more noise than the engine on tickover.

The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
>>>Heaven help us if we all end up driving diesels.
We will all have to start wearing gas masks to filter out the Nox.
At least with a bit more CO2 we can plant some trees to counter it.

If the remaining 60%+ of motorists who still drive petrol cars changed to diesel the benefits would outweigh the penalties. Heavy lorries use a lot more fuel than cars (8 mpg for a 44 tonner) and produce proportionately more pollution.

Also diesel is less explosive than petrol so there is a safety advantage regarding accidents, storage and refuelling. Biodiesel has a much higher flashpoint than ordinary diesel, with further safety implcations.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Sofa Spud
The company that really developed the steam lorry was Sentinel of Shrewsbury, whose undertype engines were fast, quiet and powerful but the company was done for by new legislation on weights and other things (IIRC) in the early 1930s.

Sentinel also made diesel lorries in the 1950's, with under-frame engines instead of at the front under the cab. They didn't last long in the resurrected form and I think sentinel ended up being bought by Rolls-Royce who built their range of diesel engines in Shrrewsbury and also built diesel shunters there.

I believe the renmaining unfinished Sentinel lorries and parts were bought by another firm who fitted Commer TS3 engines to the completed vehicles.
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - blue_haddock
Yes rolls royce still operate from the sentinel works in shrewsbury
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - PhilW
I have a good little book on history of trucks - picked it up at one of those cheap remainder book stores for a couple of quid - "World Encyclopedia of trucks, by Peter J Davies, publisher Hermes House" Has quite a bit about Sentinel Trucks, - "superbly engineered" (and some nice photos) much of which is also to be found here
fleetdata.co.uk/sentinel.html
The company who took over Sentinel was apparently TVW (Transport Vehicles Warrington) formed by Sentinel's main distributor,North Cheshire motors. TVW stopped using Sentinel's horizontal diesels and fitted Gardner, Perkins etc and, my favourite, the Commer T3. Company closed in 1961 after building only 100 trucks, factory taken over by RR as said above.
By the way, I knew nothing about this until I looked it up in the book! but I could scan the two sections on Sentinel and TVW if you are interested.

--
Phil
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - Cymrogwyllt
having had a borrowed P reg polo 1.4 for a week I can certainly see that the petrol was quicker off the mark but my CDTI was far quicker 'in gear' and much quieter
The end for petrol cars ?? - le mans - fordprefect
I believe the Rolls Royce diesel plant was bought some years ago by Perkins and is now known as PESL (Perkins Engines Shrewsbury Limited).

 

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