Give a dog a bad name... - mike hannon
Everyone on here is aware that recent French-made cars, in particular, seem to suffer more than the expected number of problems with their electronics (motoring link).
Story in today's DT says the French-assembled giant Airbus A380 airliner will be delivered late because its electronic systems are a 'shambles' with 'hundreds' of problems still unsolved, just months before it was due to go into service. Now the company's financial backers are heading for the exit.
Question is, is this a normal stage of aircraft development and a coincidence that it is put together in the country that has problems making car electronics work - or can we ever feel safe flying in one?
Give a dog a bad name... - cub leader
Having worked for a company involved in it i can say without a doubt yes I would feel safe flying on it. I have seen while on my placement year what goes into the development and testing in order for the parts to be safe when they leave here. I dont believe it is all french electronics either but the standards expected for aircraft are far higher than they are for cars!
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Temporarily not a student, where did the time go???
Give a dog a bad name... - Number_Cruncher
>>I have seen while on my placement year what goes into the development and testing in order for the parts to be safe when they leave here


Yes, that tallys with my experience of working on parts for A380.

But, the systems on A380 are a step change more complex than they are on even other Airbus aircraft. For example, one safety critical system I worked on is typically controlled by a simple system of switches and solenoids, which act to control the flow of hydraulic fluid. On A380, the simple system is replaced by a servo controlled motor, which has the capability to run to bursting speed within a very short period of time if any of the three nested computerised closed loop control systems fail. Of course, there are the necessary and appropriate safety systems in place to prevent this, but the system is fiendishly complex.

cub leader - what sort of parts were you working on?

Number_Cruncher
Give a dog a bad name... - daveyjp
'Asked about the reasons for the delay in deliveries, Scherer said they were caused by problems in interior fittings and in the large number of different suppliers.'

Seems to be fairly normal when developing such a complex piece of kit.

Aicraft accidents are rare and most are down to pilot error.

A320 crashed in to a forest - pilot set systems for landing when he was actually performing a low pass and go around.

2001 - an A300 crashed after the pilot used rudder correction when he shouldn't have.

Last year - A340 crashed after pilot made a landing in poor weather.

I'd rather a delay and they get the thing right - cars can be test beds for manufacturers as inherent problems aren't usually safety critical. When I'm 41,000 ft above the ground I want to know everything is OK.


Give a dog a bad name... - Red Baron
The company I work for make a significant number of high value parts/assemblies for this aircraft including landing gear, escape systems, communication systems etc.

You will not believe the the number of design changes required at late stages that had to be fulfilled just to get the first A380 ready. This one has not even finished its trials and customers also are still forcing design changes. Every extra gizmo that an airline wishes to offer its customers is really not just a simple add-on. To keep costs and weight down, only necessary wiring is built into the airframe.

I'd have no problems flying on the A380 or the up and coming Boeing 787 dreamliner for which we make the engine control units.
Give a dog a bad name... - Xileno {P}
I expect it's blown out of all proportion, any project will run into problems. When you hear something is 90% complete, there's usually still half way to go.

In the late 1990's I was involved in a project to create a test bed for jet engines for one of the famous manufacturers. I can assure you that the level of testing is beyond criticism. If this level of testing were applied to cars, no-one could afford them...
Give a dog a bad name... - patently
The difference is that they are holding the aircraft back in order to fix the problems.

The cars, on the other hand, are passed straight to an elite group of testers, referred to as "customers".
Give a dog a bad name... - Aprilia
The DT will put the boot in because its a European product. I suspect if it were American there would be an article about how incredibly high-tech it all is and how well the Americans have done to get anything at all working, never mind just a bit late....
Give a dog a bad name... - drbe
The DT will put the boot in because its a European
product. I suspect if it were American there would be an
article about how incredibly high-tech it all is and how well
the Americans have done to get anything at all working, never
mind just a bit late....

>>

So the DT report is untrue/exaggerated - I think not, just look at the statistics of the delay.
Give a dog a bad name... - PhilW
"In a letter to customers, Airbus said that the delivery schedule would be pushed back by six to seven months, blaming ?bottlenecks? in the ?definition, manufacturing and installation of electrical systems?."

The Times 14/06/06 beat the Telegraph to the news
business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9067-2224645...l


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Phil
Give a dog a bad name... - Altea Ego
Boeing have had equally bad delays on brand new models of aircraft, Mcdonald Douglas were even worse.

There is talk that this is due to BAE selling its stake in airbus. They want to get rid of their 20% stake, and the airbus holding company EADS are required to buy it back under the terms of the agreement.

Suddenly just as BAE are trying to sell the stake, dire warnings come out from the holding company and the price drops through the floor.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Give a dog a bad name... - L'escargot
Everyone on here is aware that recent French-made cars, in particular,
seem to suffer more than the expected number of problems with
their electronics ...


Well, I didn't actually but I'll bear it in mind when it's time to choose another car.
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L\'escargot.
Give a dog a bad name... - Collos25
Nether did I, except lagunas and Espace
Give a dog a bad name... - Red Baron
You cannot even begin to compare the standards required for (electronics and electrical systems) between cars and aircraft.

You will find that the engines are Rolls Royce (UK) and thereby can control its electronics and much of the wiring is done by a US company.

Toulouse is only a final assembly site where, admittedly, the real issues of end-to-end routing and contiguity of the signalling are discovered.
Give a dog a bad name... - mike hannon
Well, I have friends who have had an almost endless catalogue of problems with their newly-bought Peugeots - everything from 'mind of their own' electrics to gearbox failure.
After I booked a test drive for a 406 HDi coupe three years ago I was put off going any further when I heard their problems - and those of others. When I put this to the salesman he said 'yes, it's true - but it isn't just the 406, it's all of them. They are working on it'. Honest, at least.
Such a shame because the 406 coupe was one of the all-time great styles - I certainly wouldn't even look at the dreadful replacement.
Give a dog a bad name... - Xileno {P}
Very sad. We had many Peugeots over the years as a family when the 304, 504, 505 and 205 were current models. Apart from a tendency to rust a bit (205 and 505 excluded) they were brilliant tough and reliable cars. I wonder why Peugeot appear to have slipped.
 

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