Most Hillmans
Glad you said that - the Imp's were cracking motors (though not reliable - superb engine), And the Avenger Tiger now that was a car ! Twin Webers - that car roared...
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Arrrgh Imps I meant Imps !
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Pugugly
I always think an aberrant apostrophe looks better than a simple "s" when pluralizing acronyms and tradenames. Not classic usage; but when "they" wrote the rules, no-one had even heard of ECU's!
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Pugugly I always think an aberrant apostrophe looks better than a simple "s" when pluralizing acronyms and tradenames. Not classic usage; but when "they" wrote the rules, no-one had even heard of ECU's!
I'm not sure if there's a definitive view on this, but I tend to avoid the extra apostrophe, so, for me, a number of electronic control units will be written ECUs.
My logic for this is that the abbreviation, particularly on a site like this, is well known, and there's no need to further signal the presence of the abbreviation by an extra apostrophe.
This then makes it simpler to use the possesive; e.g., "the ECU's control algorithm provides a richer mixture when the engine is cold".
However, I will freely acknowledge that I'm among the last who should be listened to when concerned with matters of taste, style, and English usage!
Number_Cruncher
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NC and PU A+, Screwloose B-- this time I'm afraid.
IMHO of course.
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An apostrophe should only be used to indicate possession or the omission of letter(s).
Renault's for sale. What the whole company? ;-)
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At the right price - yes
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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Another flop was an Datsun Cherry with a Alfa Romeo engine. Anybody remember that?
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Yes ! THe Nissan Cherry Europe, loads around in a puky green. Should have been a match made in heaven...
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Yes ! THe Nissan Cherry Europe,
You was either lucky with one or it broke you,same as austin/morris 1100/1300,the later I would say was the worst of all.
Apart from engine great unit,rest was rubbish
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Steve
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Was it not called a Datsun Cherry Arna?
Yes I drove one, it was rubbish!
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I think they'd dropped the Datsun handle but being British it took a while to take the mental leap. It was all a ploy by Nissan/Datsun to by pass the Italian import quotas by building cars locally. The Italians weren't fooled.
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For some strange reason, I always thought that ARNA stood for Alfa Romeo North America and that it was actually built somewhere deep in the south of Italy (probably to take advantage of tax breaks to develop industry south of Naples) and mainly for export to the States to gain export revenues - but I am probably totally wrong - can someone enlighten?
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Phil
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Yes South Italy (Hence Alfa SUD that was built in the same plant) where there was o ice or salt hence they became rusting hulks in a more northen climate, beautiful cars but oh so flawed. (wasn't there some mafia influence ?)
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Aaah, pug - what a reminder!
So far as I know, AlfaSud was opened to create jobs on the neighbourhood, BUT the Italian government of the time - a rather shaky coalition (what's new?) with leftist leanings - sourced the steel from their fraternal comrades in the old Soviet Union, to hel out the Soviet economy a bit...
Unfortunately the SovSteel was of such a poor quality, because the Russkis didn't have the technology to re-smelt (? is this the correct word?)it, thus leaving in a load of impurities.
Hence the well-earned reputation for starting to rust at the slightest dampness.
Locally, Alfa pulled out of the market around that time - depending on which version you hear, it was either because of the sanctions against apartheid OR because they had to get the hell out of dodge due to the thousands of complaints from rusting AlfaSud owners!!!
Their re-emergence into the local market a few years back wasn't a great success - people had memories of rustbucket cars, and were 'once bitten, twice shy', and then the cambelt-replacement moving-the-goalposts debacle really put punters off.
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PhilW, found this on Wikapedia;
"N12 series (1983-1986)Pulsar Cherry
Nissan Pulsar NXA more angular version was announced in mid-1982. This model was also built in Italy by Alfa Romeo as the Arna (named after the joint venture which created it, Alfa Romeo Nissan Autoveicoli), using Alfa Romeo engines. Confusingly, the Italian models were also sold with Nissan badges, in Japan as the Nissan Pulsar Milano and in Europe as the Nissan Cherry Europe. At Alfa Romeo, the Arna was meant to replace lesser versions of the popular Alfasud, but never had the Italian car's appeal. By this time, Nissan had more or less standardized its naming policy worldwide, so as a Nissan it tended, with few exceptions, to be known as a Pulsar."
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Was it not called a Datsun Cherry Arna? Yes I drove one, it was rubbish!
Son did I, no it wasn't.
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Was it not called a Datsun Cherry Arna? Yes I drove one, it was rubbish!
So did I, no it wasn't.
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Don't let us forget the much 'missed' FSO Polski/Fiat Polonez fastback
"As a shape - designed with the help of Italian, American and British stylists - it had all the poise and elegance of a Portaloo. What's more, its creators rather missed the point of creating a practical hatchback by failing to give the Polonez rear seats that folded. The floorpan and mechanicals remained those of the 125P, so the Polonez delivered the same tardy, raucous and understeer-ridden driving experience."
tinyurl.com/oylgx
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Massey, it´s been in production for 30 years so I don´t think it could be described as a ´flop´. A Portaloo yes, but a flop?
Just saw one yesterday in Frankfurt (on Polish plates). Not the prettiest thing I´ve ever seen.
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I agree with you, not a 'flop' but cheap and not cheerful.
British buyers thought they were buying a bargain but soon realised its resale value was zilch.
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Hey someone on that C4 site dissed the wartburg knight!
Damn cheek. Noise like a motorbike, a trail of smoke, porsche handling, and dirt cheap.
what else could any other teen yoof ever want in my day as a teen yoof
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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My aunt had the Arna's cousin, the Nissan Cherry Europe.
I liked it! Not because it was a fantastic car, but because it was amusing to hear a baby-Ferrari noise coming from a dull-looking Jap hatchback! Again, not mega-ugly, just dull.
Quite quick for it's day too, it was an 83 A but she had it from about 87-93.
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Most Hillmans (Hillmen / Hillpersons?) - meant to be solid family cars but were underpowered, hard to start and unreliable
Well, I've heard some sweeping statements in my time but that must take the biscuit!
Cars were made under Hillman brand name from 1880 until relatively recently, and during that time there were quite a few different models ~ see tinyurl.co.uk/wmtt
To which particular model and/or era were you referring?
I worked in R&D for Rootes Group/Chrysler UK from 1964 to 1975 so I can speak with authority about that era. During my time with the company I must have driven dozens if not hundreds of Hillmans and other Rootes brand names, plus dozens of competitor's cars which the company had for assessment. The Rootes cars were no more nor no less underpowered, or difficult to start, than the competition. I can't comment on reliability because I don't have sufficient data.
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L\'escargot.
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Sunbeam Rapier was a lovely car as was the Talbot I also did many miles in a humber sceptre,they were certainly better than most around at the time.
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>> Sunbeam Rapier was a lovely car as was the Talbot Ialso did many miles in a humber sceptre,they were certainly better than most around at the time.
Not exactly lovely, but one of the better British mid-market offerings at the time, handled more or less, had an overdrive gearbox as standard (so did the Sceptre) and looked, well, a bit flash and hairdressery actually.
Of course there was nothing whatsoever wrong with Rootes Group products. They were as good as most other stuff around at the time, and went in for nice trim. The firm just suffered the same basic problems as the rest of the British industry, went flaccid and got taken over.
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Whilst on the theme of Rootes/ Chrysler, this reminded me another one; the Talbot Tagora. An unusually styled exec saloon, which unfortunately for Chrysler/Talbot, offered nothing more than the established competition and sank without trace three years after introduction with the sale of less than 24,000 units.
What about the Citroen GS Birotor? Reliability problems and extreme thirst at the time of the energy crisis saw the end of that after 750 units. In fact, so much of a flop Citroen recalled and crushed them, in order to stop the need to supply parts.
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Tagora was a Peugeot 604 in drag and given that model's lack of UK success, the Tagora was doomed before it even got here.
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Tagora was a Peugeot 604 in drag
Apart from the parent company and one of the engines, there is no connection between I don't think.
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Re Rootes group
Fond memories of my first car - a 1949 Sunbeam Talbot 90, bought in 1968 for £40 (doesn't sound much but probably quite a bit then given weekly earnings!) Had only done 19k in 19 years. Built like a tank, rusted like a water tank but when wound up went pretty well. Green in colour and rather nice and very comfortable light green leather upholstery. Permanent leak from the water pump even when replaced meant can of water always carried and when that ran out various other liquids used! You boast about your 18 inch wheels? This had 20 inch and it was a devil of a job to find replacement tyres (about every 100 miles it seemed - cross plies too)
Also remember a mate about the same time had a Singer Vogue (I think - sort of sporty Hillman Minx????) It went pretty well too, and spent many a happy evening racing him in my dad's Riley 4/68 (boy, the power of family saloons in those days!!) along deserted roads and forestry tracks on the N Yorks Moors. How we never came to grief is a mystery!!
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Phil
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What about the final Ford Granada with the big sad eyes .No amount of calling it Ultima helped
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What about the final Ford Granada with the big sad eyes .No amount of calling it Ultima helped
I rather liked it, but no denying it was a flop. Can only have sold a few thousand, and most of those must have found their way on to the roads as nearly new via Ford.
At least the VM boat engine in the diesel was relatively immune to petrol, as I discovered when I put 50l in - ran a bit rough but no other effects apparent in the following 60,000 miles.
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The Ford Probe was a flop - Even ford admitted so.
Altough Jermeny C Liked it a lot so much so he hated the Calibra which ok was just a Cavalier but the Calibra was so much better hence why it sold more.
Ste
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1983 (A) Vauxhall Astra 1.3L
1993 (K) Vauxhall Cavalier 2.0i GLS
1999 (T) Renault Laguna 1.6
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Avant,
at the time Hillmans were made weren't most cars underpowerd? The Minx was a well respected family car and was snapped up at auctions.
JH
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My apoplogies if it's already mentioned but I couldn't see it on this thread, but....
The Lea Francis Lynx had to be one of the greatest flops. It was very ugly sports tourer supposedly styled by someone who's seen a prototype Jaguar Mk 10. But they got their interpretation wrong. 3 Lynxes were built and at their motor show debut no oreders were placed so the car never went into production. All three cars ended up in the ownership of the same enthisiast at one stage.
www.bilnorge.no/export/bb_11116.jpeg
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That is hideous!
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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