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We thought it was necessary to upgrade the intercooler too, but apparently not.
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We thought it was necessary to upgrade the intercooler too, but apparently not.
Depends what standard intercooler is fitted. Some larger Tdi cars have a decent-sized intercooler as standard (well mine does anyway).
In a few weeks time, ask your Dad how much his fuel economy has improved. (Provided he's not been thrashing the pants off it all the time!)
My Saab is chipped and it makes a BIG difference. I removed the box a few months ago and the car felt basically undriveable, throttle response and acceleration was pathetic by comparison.
;o)
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I have the same Range Rover 2.5 engine chipped (two new EPROMS) not a magical powerboost megabox or anything like that. It isn't likely to damage it, as all it does is improve the driveability, it doesn't make the car spin round sideways everywhere with clouds of smoke billowing out of the wheel arches. It's more a case of making it drive like it does at the optimum gear/revs but over a much wider band, not crankshaft-snapping at all. I also notice the mpg is better, and lower rpm and higher gears can be used for the same result such as overtaking or accelerating up the on ramp.
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Everything that is said on this thread is true, but we'll still go to hell ;-)
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I'mm waiting for Chrysler UK to approve the startech chip job for my 300C - it'll take BHP up from 215 to 262 and torque from 510 nm to 580 nm.
Its warranty approved by Chrysler throughout Europe (Stratech is a DC owned company), but not just yet in the UK
Givenb that my car goes like stink alreay, if I get it done will I have to describe it as being really stinky ?
MTC
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You're tempting me. How do the insurance companies react, or to put it another way, what does it do to the premium?
JH
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You're tempting me. How do the insurance companies react, or to put it another way, what does it do to the premium? JH
Some insurance cos. (probably the majority?) will have a hissy fit. Quote, "Oh no sir, in insurance terms chipping is the single most undesirable thing you could do to your car, no-one will want to insure you."
Some companies will be sensible and practical about it. My tuning box (www.tuningbox.com) raises power from 115 to 140bhp. Not exactly going to set the world on fire. There are plenty of tdi cars with lots more than that as standard.
My premium went up by £23, and I've got 6 points on my licence (back onto 3 next month).
The important thing is to ask before you go ahead with it as your existing insurer might not like it. You may have to wait until renewal time, or cancel your existing policy and switch insurers.
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I believe it is the extra torque that is usually the concern, especially when banging thru the lower cogs. This is why, e.g., diesel cars can have a much meatier gear box than petrol car.
I assume the chip controls boost pressure (otherwise you would not likely obtain any more power). In this case there should come a point when a better intercooler could really lift the lid on performance...
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From what my dad told me, it didn't even raise his premium.
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From what my dad told me, it didn't even raise his premium.
Nice one Mr Horns' Dad.
The golden rule is ask your insurer before you do it.
My insurance record is very good and I had no problems with Norwich Union in chipping my Rover 75 - they're rough rule of thumb (for me) mwas the same %age increas in premium as the %age I was increasing the power by.
Other people I know of have been declined, others have big premiums added, others have large excesses, or in Mr Horns' Dads case, no loading at all.
But ask first !!
MTC
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I assume the chip controls boost pressure (otherwise you would not likely obtain any more power). In this case there should come a point when a better intercooler could really lift the lid on performance...
From what I've read elsewhere, some cars do benefit greatly from an uprated intercooler.
To get an uprated one for my Saab TiD would cost me about £380, but I'm happy to stick with what I've got. On mine the standard intercooler is the same one they fit to the 225bhp Viggen petrol model, a crossflow type that is bigger and better spec. than fitted to the lesser petrol models.
The best bit about my tuning box is that my car had a laggy flat spot at low revs; I would pull out of a junction and it seemed to take an age for the revs to reach 1900 and the turbo to kick in. The box eliminates the flat spot so its so much more driveable; and the extra torque when the turbo kicks in was quite alarming at first!
But driven with some restraint as I do most of the time, it gives 4-6mpg better fuel consumption, so the fact that it only cost me £120 second hand, it paid for itself pretty quickly...
;o)
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"I had no problems with Norwich Union in chipping my Rover 75 "
How long ago was this?. Norwich Union told me they don't allow any modifications at all. This was as far back as late 2003 when I first got a quote from them.
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Hi trancer
Initially it was in Dec 2001 and then my policy was renewed with
them each year until Dec 2005.
I don'tknow if it is/was relevant, but it was a Rover part, with a Rover part number and available as a Rover option, rather than an aftermarket product.
MTC
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My dad's with Norwich Union, so they've obviously changed their policies.
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I chipped my HDi but a touch up pen soon sorted it.
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What about adding an intercooler to an engine?
My 306 HDi could do with a boost from 90bhp, but there isn't an intercooler. Would a trip to the scrapper and a couple of hours knucle scraping be...
a) a straight forward job?
b) worth it?
Cheers
Simon
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My 306 HDi could do with a boost from 90bhp, but there isn't an intercooler. Would a trip to the scrapper and a couple of hours knucle scraping be... a) a straight forward job? >> b) worth it?
Unfortunately sounds like a lot of hassle to do it DIY: snipurl.com/q6kg
But check out the Allard link on the 3rd post down...
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I read so much about fellow SEAT owners achieving amazing increases in performance by means of chipping that I considered following their example.
Being cowardly (or prudent, depending on your point of view) I asked SEAT UK which they would recommend and they sniffily said they did not recommend chipping at all.
Not wishing to leave myself without backup should damage occur I decided to leave it well alone. Mind you the standard car is pretty nippy.
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It is often ironic that manufacturers will not recommend chipping, and yet they themselves will offer one engine in different states of tune, and therefore the highest tune being chipped by definition...
The real reason the cars don't come tuned to the highest state the engine and gearbox will take is because allowances for fuel quality and varying maintenance have to be taken into account.
If you look after your car and fill with good fuel (I don't believe there is any bad fuel in this country) then you can't go wrong by trying to make full use of over-engineered hardware, IMO.
For instance, my old Volvo V70 came with a 2.4 petrol de-tuned to 140bhp. The *exact* same engine was also available from Volvo with 170bhp.
Needless to say, I had it chipped with an ecu re-map to 180bhp and slept very easy in my bed. Shame the insurance company charge the full 140-180 increase and not the 170-180 which it really is...
i.e. start off from the factory with a 170bhp and tune it to 180 and it was more expensive to insure than starting with a 140 and tuning it to the same 180bhp. Same car, same engine, same power output but different insurance...go figure!!
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Whoops, meant to write "more expensive to insure starting out with a 140 than a 170 same 180 result"...
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The *exact* same engine was also available from Volvo with 170bhp.
::Pedantic mode on::
Yes, the engines are identical bar the software loaded in to the ECU but the final drive ratios are different; The 170 horsepower variant has a lower final drive (meaning more engine RPM for any given road speed in any gear) and the 140 horsepower variant a taller final drive (meaning fewer engine RPM for any given road speed in any gear).
The reason fot this is that the software changes with the 140 horsepower version completely remove the point in revving the engine hard (it really is asthmatic above 4000 RPM) so a taller final drive makes it easier to surf along in the sweet spot below this RPM.
The 140 horsepower version tuned to 180 horsepower therefore behaves differently to a 170 horsepower version tuned to 180 horsepower; with the extra torque that the tuning bestows, the former scrabbles away from the line and through the gears a little more urgently but the latter punts along more nicely in a long legged fashion at higher roadspeeds.
::Pedant mode off::
Me? I like V70 2.4Ts software tuned and mildly mechanically modified to 258 bhp and 444 NM. :-)
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LOL! I wrote those exact (almost) words myself to the VOC website some time ago...so I did know that little snippet, thanks! ;)
The real world difference between the 2 final drive ratios is so small though, my point being that the insurance companies are blinded by the % increase in overal power, and not the fact that the actual increase in day-to-day driving is practically none due to the artificial strangulation etc. Therefore, why should a 170 tuned to 180 be rated 0-10% increase and a 140 tuned to the same 180 (identical but for the marginal gear ratio difference, which actually slows the 140 down a bit, even when tuned) is rated in the 20-30% increase. Odd when the end result is the same, don't you think?
And yes, I'd like the tuned 2.4T better in any case... :)
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LOL! I wrote those exact (almost) words myself to the VOC website some time ago...so I did know that little snippet, thanks! ;) The real world difference between the 2 final drive ratios is so small though, my point ........... etc
Yes, somewhat odd but less so when you start looking at how they calculate premiums. I have just read an interesting article on the history of airline fare pricing* and it wouldn't surprise me if the insurance world was as complex.
For info I was pleasantly surprised by the insurance premium when I modified my V70, and currently only pay £40 more per annum (plus £100 greater excess) than with the standard car.
When it comes to the 140 v 170 final drive ratios, I found this out when driving the V70s of two colleagues in Sweden, back-to-back. Surprised at first, I went back to check. Jeez was that 140 an overdriven slug; fine(ish) in the right rev zone but hopeless either side.
* www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3073548/ but please discuss in "I have a question" if at all, before I get a slap from the Mods. ;-)
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try this website - the chap knows his Pug Dervs very well
www.thedervdoctor.co.uk/
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Considered a tune up for my 306 td (xutd) which I've had for about a year.
However, from what I understand, the Turbo itself is configured with a large gap in terms of actual utilization vs full utilization for reliability purposes. Also I think I'm still on my first clutch, although cant be 100£ sure on the matter.
Also being 21, and despite driving fairly calm so far, im sure my current insurance company will love to (insert wallet digging image here) show how much they really care :-)
Any thoughts on the matter?
Anyone had a 306 td (non-hdi) tuned?
Thanks in advanced.
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