Diesel chipping - David Horn
My dad's just had his Rover 75 CDT chipped to 150ish BHP, reports it now goes like the proverbial off a shovel.

He's also had my mum's 1996 2.5 diesel auto Range Poser chipped but not told her! He said that it's now a wonder to drive, so if you have either of those cars, it's worth the money. ;)
Diesel chipping - Dynamic Dave
He's also had my mum's 1996 2.5 diesel auto Range Poser chipped but not told her!


But has he told her insurance company?
Diesel chipping - David Horn
Just phoned him, all above board apparently.
Diesel chipping - George Porge
You're going to get told off now by the "dirty diesel smoking bridgade" for doing such evil things ;-)

Making a rod for my own back, I own a chipped VW diesel (so I'm twice afflicted and beyond help) and its awesome.
Diesel chipping - ziggy
He's also had my mum's 1996 2.5 diesel auto Range Poser
chipped but not told her! He said that it's now
a wonder to drive, so if you have either of those
cars, it's worth the money. ;)


But is it worth a snapped crank-shaft..?!

Also isn't it better to upgrade the intercooler rather than re-chip...? Every TD I have driven is significantly more tardy in warm weather...
Diesel chipping - David Horn
We thought it was necessary to upgrade the intercooler too, but apparently not.
Diesel chipping - Group B
We thought it was necessary to upgrade the intercooler too, but
apparently not.


Depends what standard intercooler is fitted. Some larger Tdi cars have a decent-sized intercooler as standard (well mine does anyway).
In a few weeks time, ask your Dad how much his fuel economy has improved. (Provided he's not been thrashing the pants off it all the time!)

My Saab is chipped and it makes a BIG difference. I removed the box a few months ago and the car felt basically undriveable, throttle response and acceleration was pathetic by comparison.

;o)
Diesel chipping - Hamsafar
I have the same Range Rover 2.5 engine chipped (two new EPROMS) not a magical powerboost megabox or anything like that. It isn't likely to damage it, as all it does is improve the driveability, it doesn't make the car spin round sideways everywhere with clouds of smoke billowing out of the wheel arches. It's more a case of making it drive like it does at the optimum gear/revs but over a much wider band, not crankshaft-snapping at all. I also notice the mpg is better, and lower rpm and higher gears can be used for the same result such as overtaking or accelerating up the on ramp.
Diesel chipping - George Porge
Everything that is said on this thread is true, but we'll still go to hell ;-)
Diesel chipping - Murphy The Cat
I'mm waiting for Chrysler UK to approve the startech chip job for my 300C - it'll take BHP up from 215 to 262 and torque from 510 nm to 580 nm.

Its warranty approved by Chrysler throughout Europe (Stratech is a DC owned company), but not just yet in the UK

Givenb that my car goes like stink alreay, if I get it done will I have to describe it as being really stinky ?

MTC
Diesel chipping - JH
You're tempting me. How do the insurance companies react, or to put it another way, what does it do to the premium?
JH
Diesel chipping - Group B
You're tempting me. How do the insurance companies react, or to
put it another way, what does it do to the premium?
JH


Some insurance cos. (probably the majority?) will have a hissy fit. Quote, "Oh no sir, in insurance terms chipping is the single most undesirable thing you could do to your car, no-one will want to insure you."
Some companies will be sensible and practical about it. My tuning box (www.tuningbox.com) raises power from 115 to 140bhp. Not exactly going to set the world on fire. There are plenty of tdi cars with lots more than that as standard.
My premium went up by £23, and I've got 6 points on my licence (back onto 3 next month).
The important thing is to ask before you go ahead with it as your existing insurer might not like it. You may have to wait until renewal time, or cancel your existing policy and switch insurers.
Diesel chipping - ziggy

I believe it is the extra torque that is usually the concern, especially when banging thru the lower cogs. This is why, e.g., diesel cars can have a much meatier gear box than petrol car.

I assume the chip controls boost pressure (otherwise you would not likely obtain any more power). In this case there should come a point when a better intercooler could really lift the lid on performance...
Diesel chipping - David Horn
From what my dad told me, it didn't even raise his premium.
Diesel chipping - Murphy The Cat
From what my dad told me, it didn't even raise his
premium.


Nice one Mr Horns' Dad.

The golden rule is ask your insurer before you do it.

My insurance record is very good and I had no problems with Norwich Union in chipping my Rover 75 - they're rough rule of thumb (for me) mwas the same %age increas in premium as the %age I was increasing the power by.

Other people I know of have been declined, others have big premiums added, others have large excesses, or in Mr Horns' Dads case, no loading at all.

But ask first !!

MTC
Diesel chipping - Group B
I assume the chip controls boost pressure (otherwise you would not
likely obtain any more power). In this case there should
come a point when a better intercooler could really lift the
lid on performance...


From what I've read elsewhere, some cars do benefit greatly from an uprated intercooler.
To get an uprated one for my Saab TiD would cost me about £380, but I'm happy to stick with what I've got. On mine the standard intercooler is the same one they fit to the 225bhp Viggen petrol model, a crossflow type that is bigger and better spec. than fitted to the lesser petrol models.
The best bit about my tuning box is that my car had a laggy flat spot at low revs; I would pull out of a junction and it seemed to take an age for the revs to reach 1900 and the turbo to kick in. The box eliminates the flat spot so its so much more driveable; and the extra torque when the turbo kicks in was quite alarming at first!
But driven with some restraint as I do most of the time, it gives 4-6mpg better fuel consumption, so the fact that it only cost me £120 second hand, it paid for itself pretty quickly...

;o)
Diesel chipping - trancer
"I had no problems with Norwich Union in chipping my Rover 75 "

How long ago was this?. Norwich Union told me they don't allow any modifications at all. This was as far back as late 2003 when I first got a quote from them.
Diesel chipping - Murphy The Cat
Hi trancer

Initially it was in Dec 2001 and then my policy was renewed with
them each year until Dec 2005.

I don'tknow if it is/was relevant, but it was a Rover part, with a Rover part number and available as a Rover option, rather than an aftermarket product.

MTC
Diesel chipping - David Horn
My dad's with Norwich Union, so they've obviously changed their policies.
Diesel chipping - mss1tw
I chipped my HDi but a touch up pen soon sorted it.
Diesel chipping - David Horn
*David slaps mss1tw*
Diesel chipping - Simon (Anne\'s Other Half)
What about adding an intercooler to an engine?
My 306 HDi could do with a boost from 90bhp, but there isn't an intercooler. Would a trip to the scrapper and a couple of hours knucle scraping be...
a) a straight forward job?
b) worth it?

Cheers

Simon
Diesel chipping - Group B
My 306 HDi could do with a boost from 90bhp, but
there isn't an intercooler. Would a trip to the scrapper and
a couple of hours knucle scraping be...
a) a straight forward job? >> b) worth it?


Unfortunately sounds like a lot of hassle to do it DIY: snipurl.com/q6kg
But check out the Allard link on the 3rd post down...
Diesel chipping - AlanGowdy
I read so much about fellow SEAT owners achieving amazing increases in performance by means of chipping that I considered following their example.
Being cowardly (or prudent, depending on your point of view) I asked SEAT UK which they would recommend and they sniffily said they did not recommend chipping at all.
Not wishing to leave myself without backup should damage occur I decided to leave it well alone. Mind you the standard car is pretty nippy.
Diesel chipping - TheOilBurner
It is often ironic that manufacturers will not recommend chipping, and yet they themselves will offer one engine in different states of tune, and therefore the highest tune being chipped by definition...

The real reason the cars don't come tuned to the highest state the engine and gearbox will take is because allowances for fuel quality and varying maintenance have to be taken into account.

If you look after your car and fill with good fuel (I don't believe there is any bad fuel in this country) then you can't go wrong by trying to make full use of over-engineered hardware, IMO.

For instance, my old Volvo V70 came with a 2.4 petrol de-tuned to 140bhp. The *exact* same engine was also available from Volvo with 170bhp.
Needless to say, I had it chipped with an ecu re-map to 180bhp and slept very easy in my bed. Shame the insurance company charge the full 140-180 increase and not the 170-180 which it really is...
i.e. start off from the factory with a 170bhp and tune it to 180 and it was more expensive to insure than starting with a 140 and tuning it to the same 180bhp. Same car, same engine, same power output but different insurance...go figure!!
Diesel chipping - TheOilBurner
Whoops, meant to write "more expensive to insure starting out with a 140 than a 170 same 180 result"...
Diesel chipping - SjB {P}
The *exact* same engine was also available from Volvo with 170bhp.


::Pedantic mode on::

Yes, the engines are identical bar the software loaded in to the ECU but the final drive ratios are different; The 170 horsepower variant has a lower final drive (meaning more engine RPM for any given road speed in any gear) and the 140 horsepower variant a taller final drive (meaning fewer engine RPM for any given road speed in any gear).

The reason fot this is that the software changes with the 140 horsepower version completely remove the point in revving the engine hard (it really is asthmatic above 4000 RPM) so a taller final drive makes it easier to surf along in the sweet spot below this RPM.

The 140 horsepower version tuned to 180 horsepower therefore behaves differently to a 170 horsepower version tuned to 180 horsepower; with the extra torque that the tuning bestows, the former scrabbles away from the line and through the gears a little more urgently but the latter punts along more nicely in a long legged fashion at higher roadspeeds.

::Pedant mode off::

Me? I like V70 2.4Ts software tuned and mildly mechanically modified to 258 bhp and 444 NM. :-)
Diesel chipping - TheOilBurner
LOL! I wrote those exact (almost) words myself to the VOC website some time ago...so I did know that little snippet, thanks! ;)

The real world difference between the 2 final drive ratios is so small though, my point being that the insurance companies are blinded by the % increase in overal power, and not the fact that the actual increase in day-to-day driving is practically none due to the artificial strangulation etc. Therefore, why should a 170 tuned to 180 be rated 0-10% increase and a 140 tuned to the same 180 (identical but for the marginal gear ratio difference, which actually slows the 140 down a bit, even when tuned) is rated in the 20-30% increase. Odd when the end result is the same, don't you think?

And yes, I'd like the tuned 2.4T better in any case... :)
Diesel chipping - SjB {P}
LOL! I wrote those exact (almost) words myself to the
VOC website some time ago...so I did know that little snippet,
thanks! ;)
The real world difference between the 2 final drive ratios is
so small though, my point ........... etc


Yes, somewhat odd but less so when you start looking at how they calculate premiums. I have just read an interesting article on the history of airline fare pricing* and it wouldn't surprise me if the insurance world was as complex.

For info I was pleasantly surprised by the insurance premium when I modified my V70, and currently only pay £40 more per annum (plus £100 greater excess) than with the standard car.

When it comes to the 140 v 170 final drive ratios, I found this out when driving the V70s of two colleagues in Sweden, back-to-back. Surprised at first, I went back to check. Jeez was that 140 an overdriven slug; fine(ish) in the right rev zone but hopeless either side.


* www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3073548/ but please discuss in "I have a question" if at all, before I get a slap from the Mods. ;-)
Diesel chipping - blue_haddock
try this website - the chap knows his Pug Dervs very well

www.thedervdoctor.co.uk/
Diesel chipping - smokescreen
Considered a tune up for my 306 td (xutd) which I've had for about a year.

However, from what I understand, the Turbo itself is configured with a large gap in terms of actual utilization vs full utilization for reliability purposes. Also I think I'm still on my first clutch, although cant be 100£ sure on the matter.

Also being 21, and despite driving fairly calm so far, im sure my current insurance company will love to (insert wallet digging image here) show how much they really care :-)

Any thoughts on the matter?

Anyone had a 306 td (non-hdi) tuned?

Thanks in advanced.
Diesel chipping - Andrew-T
"it now goes like the proverbial off a shovel"

This isn't much of a recommendation. Assuming your proverbial is the same as mine, I always understood that it stuck rather well?
Diesel chipping - David Horn
Think curries.
Diesel chipping - barchettaman
Comes off a shovel easily. I think you may be confusing it with ´blanket´ to which it sticks to effectively, as BabyBarchetta can attest to.
Diesel chipping - trancer
" "more expensive to insure starting out with a 140 than a 170 same 180 result""

I think thats because the insurance companies quote premiums based on percentage increase. Some companies I contacted would only allow a 10% increase while others would almost double the premium for an increase greater than 10%. 140 to 180 would therefore cost alot more than 170 to 180 which would be well within their 10% increase guideline.
Diesel chipping - MichaelR
My insurance company hates remaps. For some reason they want £2000 for a 530d Sport chipped to 240bhp but only £1000 for the same car as standard.
Diesel chipping - David Horn
Would they even be able to tell if you were in an accident that the car's ECU had been remapped? Would have thought if it was a second hand car it'd be pretty easy to blame it on the previous owner, and in the case of mechanical tuning, surely if no parts have been changed it may have come out of the factory like that.
Diesel chipping - TheOilBurner
It is possible, as I understand it to check the ECU for signs of re-mapping. I'm not 100% certain they could prove it. I've been told (by a reliable source in the industry) that each re-map leaves an entry on a log, possibly with some details of what has changed. It would be nice to know for sure though.

As for whether or not the "previous owner" did it, that's immaterial as far as the insurance company is concerned. Totally unfair, but that's their rules AFAIK...
Diesel chipping - Xileno {P}
This thread has the answer:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=16751&...e
Diesel chipping - trancer
"I've been told (by a reliable source in the industry) that each re-map leaves an entry on a log, possibly with some details of what has changed."

Any decent tuner worth his laptop knows how to alter the mapping without affecting the flash counter. They even replace the original manufacturer software code number after altering the map so nothing looks out of place.

Apparently the only way to tell for sure (apart from driving the car and feeling your head snap back) would be to pull the checksum data from the suspect car and compare it with that from an unmodified car. From what I understand, Insurance companies don't have the means to do this as they use basic handheld OBDII scanners and the average dealer wouldn't bother for the sake of refusing a warranty job. If you have ever seen the hexadecimal code used to write these maps you would understand why the dealers wouldn't bother. It will give you a headache just looking at it.

I suppose if the situation warrants it, say if a car mows down and kills a few people while causing millions of pounds worth of damage then the Insurance co might try significantly harder to prove the car was modified as any extra cost involved for them would be alot cheaper than settling.
Diesel chipping - George Porge
The easiest way of checking for any type of rechip is to check the turbo boost with a gauge. The boost limit will be raised to a higher but safe maximum.

If your insurance co gets a strop because you want to chip your car, tell them there's plenty of others willing to accept your custom for the similar premiums that you're currently paying. Don't forget to tell them its just not worth it, I've had modified insurance for the last 10 years and the premiums are'nt a great deal more.
Diesel chipping - David Horn
True, but presumably should you have crashed badly enough for the insurance company to be debating about chipping, you wouldn't be able to run the engine to check it!
Diesel chipping - George Porge
How much damage would a 4 year old child do to your car at 40mph? If you ever get yourself into the situation where an insurance company cancels your policy due to a fraudulent application you'll be very lucky to get insurance again.
Diesel chipping - Vin {P}
Very long time ago, friend of mine killed a woman who stepped straight out in front of his motorbike. The Police practically dismantled his bike down to nuts and bolts in assessing its roadworthiness. I have NO DOUBT AT ALL that they would check nowadays for a chip replacement. Perhaps the boys in blue who post on here might choose to comment.

Up to you, but it's a hell of a risk to take.

V
Diesel chipping - David Horn
You misunderstand me. Of course I'd tell my insurance company, same as my dad did. People who drive uninsured etc are one of my most disliked groups. It was just a curious question, as when my dad had his done it was a 5 minutes job through the diagnostics socket.
Diesel chipping - George Porge
Very long time ago, friend of mine killed a woman who
stepped straight out in front of his motorbike. The Police
practically dismantled his bike down to nuts and bolts in assessing
its roadworthiness. I have NO DOUBT AT ALL that they
would check nowadays for a chip replacement. Perhaps the boys
in blue who post on here might choose to comment.
Up to you, but it's a hell of a risk to
take.
V


I have a similar story too. Its just not worth it.
Diesel chipping - Adam {P}
Wasn't there someone on here who had a "Non Death" accident (and possibly non fault in the end) but the cops ended up taking his car apart and finding something wrong with the handbrake?
Diesel chipping - trancer
" The easiest way of checking for any type of rechip is to check the turbo boost with a gauge."

Tuning boxes don't alter turbo boost so you couldn't tell the presence of one by that means...of course there are much easier ways of detecting a tuning box!!.
Diesel chipping - George Porge
" The easiest way of checking for any type of rechip
is to check the turbo boost with a gauge."
Tuning boxes don't alter turbo boost so you couldn't tell the
presence of one by that means...of course there are much easier
ways of detecting a tuning box!!.


Thats why I said rechip ;-)
Diesel chipping - ziggy
" The easiest way of checking for any type of rechip
is to check the turbo boost with a gauge."
Tuning boxes don't alter turbo boost so you couldn't tell the
presence of one by that means...of course there are much easier
ways of detecting a tuning box!!.


So how does the tuning box get more air into the engine if the turbo o/p (the 'bellows' for the fire) is not impacted...?

Diesel chipping - No Do$h
Darn it, I knew I'd find myself dragged in to posting on other threads ::stamps foot::

Most chips just shove more fuel in for a given amount of air (and that includes a lot of remaps). Most diesels are running "lean" compared to what they could take in, so the remaps simply dump in more fuel while remaining within acceptable parameters. 70,000 miles of chipped diesel driving has taught me just how much fun that extra fuel is!

Oddly, the change in driving characteristics allows for less pedal in many situations, so some fuel savings...... Unless you use all the power all the time ;oD
Diesel chipping - BobbyG
Alan, you have mail.
Diesel chipping - ziggy
As a rule I don't like insurance Co's.

However, I don't blame them for steering clear of chipped cars.
It is just too much of an unknown quantity for them.
Diesel chipping - Group B
However, I don't blame them for steering clear of chipped cars.
It is just too much of an unknown quantity for them.



For most tuning boxes, the manufacturers state what the likely power and torque increases are. So an insurance co. can compare the new figures with another car in the range with similar outputs, and say, "right we'll move it up from a group 13 to a group 14. And add £x to the premium." Simple really. But what some seem to think is: "he's modifying his car so he'll probably be going illegal street racing and stuff." Which is cobblers.

I heard this explanation of how tuning boxes work: The box intercepts the fuelling signal from the ECU to the injection pump, and if you are accelerating, modifies it to inject more fuel. This creates a richer mixture, which the ECU detects and so increases boost to compensate. Someone who tested one said peak boost went up from 0.9 to 1.1 bar, so not a very big increase, but enough to give around 15-20% more power and torque in many applications.
Diesel chipping - Editor
Hi David & All

Who did the rechip & how much did it cost please?

Thank you.
--
www.bayingbasset.com

Diesel chipping - George Porge
www.upsolute.com/eng/index.html

Had mine chipped by these, they flew over from Austria to chip 20 or so of us at GTi international in 2001, but now have distributers in the UK. £167 bargain, the best money I've ever spent on a car.
Diesel chipping - Mutton Geoff
Wasn't there someone on here who had a "Non Death" accident (and possibly non fault in the end) but the cops ended up taking his car apart and finding something wrong with the handbrake?

May have been me. Many years ago, I ran into the back of a car that pulled straight out in front of me on a dual carriageway to overtake a parked vehicle some distance ahead. I thought I could pass before the car pulled out, they didn't see me coming. Consequential impact saw her over the central reservation hit by a couple of cars coming the other way. It was a dreadful scene but there were no fatalities.

Lady that pulled out in front was heavily pregnant, I was student in old Ford. Police stripped my car in their workshops and found a "fault" not connected with accident and I was prosecuted for driving without due care and driving a defective vehicle (I was engineering student and had made my own handbrake cable tensioner to take up handbrake slack, this was their "defective brakes" charge).

As a youngster feeling blame, I wanted to send lady bunch of flowers but plod advised against it. After conviction which cost me dearly in insurance for years after, I have had a strong dislike for traffic police to this day.
Diesel chipping - Murphy The Cat
After talking to those awfully nice people at Daimler Chrysler Insurance (and ringing back and confirmining it) they have told me that as long as I don't increas the BHP of my car over the 340 BHP of the 5.7 lt V8 Hemi they will NOT INCREASE MY PREMIUM by 1p.
Given that my car currently gives out 215 BHP I have plenty of scope to play with things.

They had no interest at all in the torque figures.

The chippping job that I am (mabye) fancying is going to come from Startech, with is a division of Brabus, which is a division of Daimler Chrysler. Once Daimler Chryler UK have approved it (as Daimler Chrysler Europe have), it will also leave my warranty intact - oh happy days.

The BHP goes up from 215 to 260 and the torque from 510nm to 560nm.
Given that the car is "adequate" in the performance stakes already, a litle bit more will add to the fun.

MTC
 

Ask Honest John

Value my car